R6 Cams

[fazil]

Any update

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Yes, I have news .

Blanking plates arrived. Fitted those:



Fitted the coils, rubber cap battery box, airbox etc back on the bike. Also fitted the downpipes which I had off for polishing:



Stuck the battery in and fuel tank on and went for a start up .

News is, well I was expecting the bike to crank a bit to give me a chance to check there were no horrible noises. NOPE! Fired straight up .

Inital impressions are WOW. It picks up VERY fast from idle. Like a proper race bike. No lazy throttle anymore. Few more bits to put on and a bit of setting up to do I'm sure, but it runs and sounds great.

More will follow, I'll have it all back together over the next couple of days, I'm hoping to go out on it on Sunday.

Dyno will follow!

 

[fazil]

NOPE! Fired straight up .

Great that you made it. Waiting for the sunday ride feeling.
Torque curve should be more lineer with R6 cams, dyno results will tell.
I still wonder about low end torque.
Will you add on power commander etc?

 

[0l0dom0l0]

We will find out.

I'll get in on the dyno, I've got a before graph as a rough comparison.

Hoping it'll pick up some in the midrange and will see 100WHP.

Also hoping the custom map I've got won't need too much tweaking.

 

[fazil]

Also hoping the custom map I've got won't need too much tweaking.

May be you can adjust CO settings while on the dyno.

 

[FinalImpact]

We will find out.

I'll get in on the dyno, I've got a before graph as a rough comparison.

Hoping it'll pick up some in the midrange and will see 100WHP.

Also hoping the custom map I've got won't need too much tweaking.

Good JOB!!!

So, does your chart have the AFR listed and if you don't mind, can you post it?
What you mention above about "throttle response and ...like a proper race bike" ... That is where I'm at with the 08. Getting rid of exhaust restrictions, proper fueling and ignition advance and it has "proper throttle response"....
FWIW: I ended up running colder plugs and they stay clean with the ignition advanced.

Do tell, once ridden for a bit what its new characteristics are! If anything, I want more punch down low so I've been hesitant to do a cam swap. Oh and get as many miles on it before dyno run...
Enjoy!

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Good JOB!!!

So, does your chart have the AFR listed and if you don't mind, can you post it?
What you mention above about "throttle response and ...like a proper race bike" ... That is where I'm at with the 08. Getting rid of exhaust restrictions, proper fueling and ignition advance and it has "proper throttle response"....
FWIW: I ended up running colder plugs and they stay clean with the ignition advanced.

Do tell, once ridden for a bit what its new characteristics are! If anything, I want more punch down low so I've been hesitant to do a cam swap. Oh and get as many miles on it before dyno run...
Enjoy!

I'll stick up a copy, don't think it has the AFR listed though which is annoying.

I mean in the sense that I've never been happy with the throttle response when you blip the throttle. It's always taken too long to rev up which makes blipping on the down changes hard etc. Just what I would describe as 'lazy'.

On start up there was a noticeable difference in response, ie it was awesome! Completely different bike.

I was putting some more bits together last night, but noticed my front caliper pins had seized a touch. The pins are long past their best. (2 pot sliding calipers aren't designed for track day abuse). So I've got to order and get new pins before I can get the thing on the road. Small delay, hopefully won't take long to get sorted.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I'll stick up a copy, don't think it has the AFR listed though which is annoying.

I mean in the sense that I've never been happy with the throttle response when you blip the throttle. It's always taken too long to rev up which makes blipping on the down changes hard etc. Just what I would describe as 'lazy'.

On start up there was a noticeable difference in response, ie it was awesome! Completely different bike.

I was putting some more bits together last night, but noticed my front caliper pins had seized a touch. The pins are long past their best. (2 pot sliding calipers aren't designed for track day abuse). So I've got to order and get new pins before I can get the thing on the road. Small delay, hopefully won't take long to get sorted.

I sort of worked around the slight blipping delay by blipping a millisecond sooner. The internals of the motor can only be so light, and a blip of the throttle has to overcome inertia before it can rev. There isn't too much we can do about that, unfortunately.

 

[FinalImpact]

Chance that's what I'm saying is the perk, "throttle response". Its effortless to shift w/out a clutch as the throttle response is improved so much from stock. You snap it, and its there "now". Before it was LAG ridden and took a long time to track input.
- Initially the timing mod/ignition advanced helped, but I'd thought Id gone too far as it didn't improve the T/R like I thought it should. Then the main cat mysteriously took a hiatus and it was night and day. Asking myself if it could get even better, some S1 bits arrived from fleebay (aka S1 header) and MORE gains in this same direction. Yet, even MORE responsive.
- Although one thing I may have to address is cooler engine temps. The bike runs on the stats opening point of 165°F 90% of the time until waiting at a light. Even when pulling miles of up hill under load the temps are very low.
- Retarded engine timing makes heat. Advancing it helps. Obviously there are limits but she runs very different than other FZs I've been on. I'd love to go head to head with another 6 just to see! :spank::spank:

As for lightening the reciprocating parts - stock camshafts are cast iron which is heavy. The R6 cams are not just drilled but a steel tube with the lobes pressed and welded. They are much lighter which will help the engine track ones wrist better.

Last bit of blabing....
In my build thread I mentioned the scavenging effect the S2 headers don't exhibit while the S1 do. We're all on the same page when I talk of the venturi effect or the principals as to how a siphon style paint gun works right? A volume of air past an open hole forms a vacuum on the open hole?
With compressed air I blew into the S1 header to remove chunks after cutting and welding the O2 bung in. Blowing into any one inlet created a vacuum in the other three. Most notable was the adjacent "two into one" next to it. Repeating this on the S2 pipe and nothing. Air would blow OUT OF the ADJACENT pipe!!! The little converters are too restricted to scavenge (pull air past the adjacent hole) at air hose volumes. All I can say is, at least mine is now on par with the early ones in that regard.
Point: I'm pretty sure this change allowing it to exhale without having to build a pressure wave and overcome the stalled air in the primary pipe gave it back its T/R. Something you S1 folks didn't have to deal with.

0l0dom0l0 be the first to the dyno with Advanced timing AND R6 CAMs and the operator may give you a high-five! :cheer::cheer:

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Little teaser:

https://youtu.be/iiXGbPHyfHg

Being held up now by the fact I'm waiting on an order to come containing a new exhaust gasket for the downpipes to decat as the old one leaks and also contains my brake pins for the front calipers so I can rebuild those.

When the package arrives ill have it together that evening and then get the bike insured. I think I have a couple of weeks left on the mot so should be ok to go straight out on it.

Will keep you posted.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

I don't want to get you all excited, but just had an email saying my parts should be delivered today, which means that I should (all going well) have everything back together tonight and could even be riding the bike as soon as tomorrow!

 

[Jb40k]

I don't want to get you all excited, but just had an email saying my parts should be delivered today, which means that I should (all going well) have everything back together tonight and could even be riding the bike as soon as tomorrow!

You're not far from me at all (I'm just outside Portsmouth), it'd be great to see this bike over the summer sometime! I was planning on remapping again soon anyway, though having read through this thread am very tempted to go for the cam swap first!

What is the advantage of the blanking plates out of interest too? I've been out of the loop for a while!

 

[0l0dom0l0]

I've actually not updated my profile in a while but I'm living in Essex now. Although my parents still live in Hampshire.

Yeah if you are planning to get a remap I would wait it out and see the outcome of the cams going in first.

AIS plates stop air being bled through from the air box into the exhaust system and the popping on the deceleration sometimes associated with when you put an aftermarket exhaust on. There is also question as to weather they give false AFR readings on the dyno by injecting air into the exhaust and making it look like the bike is running leaner than it actually is.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Bits are on, bike is back together. Just a nut and bolt check to do, get insurance and tax and I'll be out.

Weather is looking good so if I can sort the insurance by lunch I'll nip home and pick it up.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Okay so went for a spin!!

Well, where to start. Initially the throttle was very lazy, I expect because I adjusted the idle (sshould have left it alone). But the bike rode fine through warm up which was just pottering round town. No coughs or splutters, generally ran no to much different to before.

Started giving it a bit more beans. The low down throttle response (ie rolling along and walking the throttle) deffo hasn't got worse. If anything from memory the bike seems happier and more agrees I've pulling from the low RPM points. Again fuelling for this was fine, especially at WOT.

I started allowing the bike to rev a bit more and it certainly goes well! I didn't get a chance to really gun it but I took it to 13.5K in second and it didn't want to stop pulling so I think this set up will hold torque right until the red line.

From 8.5k to 13.5k the power delivery is fantastic and the fuelling doesn't feel off either. It's a really smooth ride.

I did however notice a flat spot around 7k. When I get the bike on the dyno we cam see if this is down to stray fuelling at this point or if the cams needs moving slightly.

I'm not sure on numbers, I'd like to hope it'll make 100 hp. It's certainly not far off.

More to come, I just had to tell you all!

 

[fazil]

Thanks for the info. There is already a flat spot on my stock cam bike around 6k, then it gets wild and pulls hard. May be after cam swap, it is shifted to 7k.

You mean low end torque is the same as before. What do you feel about mid rpm torque?

Are you willing to make a cam timing adjustment later, some advancing or retarding?

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Well I'd say if anything the low end is better. I'm talking about opening the throttle at 3000 RPM. The airbox makes the most incredible noise, much louder than before so I'd say it sucking in more air. However at this speed there is a funny noise coming from somewhere so I need to check a couple of things.

Midrange certainly feels strong too. Again I would say nothing lost there except the flat spot at around 6500-7250 perhaps which does kill it a touch.

As I said from about 8500 RPM it's pulling very hard and there is no noticeable drop off in power from there to 13.5k (Which was all I managed to get to) which should help us see good numbers on the dyno.

I think the next port of call is to get a few miles on the bike and then ill go to the dyno.

I've pulled out the before dyno sheet I have and we can use that as a comparator. Just for reference on that one power is dropping off from 12k.

I'll get an afr trace done with the pulls. Can see if the flat spot can be calibrated out by playing with the fuelling and what gains there are left By tweaking the fuelling.

Then if it's still there it might be time to have a play with the cam timing and see where we get to.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Thanks! Good to know @ss dyno likes how it feels!

You might take note as to what gear they run in for HP/TQ data collection and if they plot AFR based upon shifts up from 1st or pulling it 4th etc.

Any thoughts on throttle response vs how it was? You do any clutchless shifting?

 

[0l0dom0l0]

^^ Thanks! Good to know @ss dyno likes how it feels!

You might take note as to what gear they run in for HP/TQ data collection and if they plot AFR based upon shifts up from 1st or pulling it 4th etc.

Any thoughts on throttle response vs how it was? You do any clutchless shifting?

Sorry, been too busy out riding on it to spend any time posting on here .

lol I have been out on the bike a couple more times now.

I seem to have got the idle sorted and the map generally seems okay now it's run some fresh fuel through. I think it's a bit rich at the low end part load, maybe a tad lean at full load. Hard to tell really. Rang a dyno place hoping to surprise you all..... he said come down Saturday but I'm not around this weekend so am going to ring again Monday, said he might be able to squeeze me in some point.

The bike pulls like crazy at the top end, there is a kick about 7250, then there is another at about 9500 RPM to maybe about 13k. Accidentally hit the limiter yesterday, so we know it's good to rev to the redline.

I've also now settled in and started riding better and more relaxed. In second the front end lifts over any smalls bumps and I've already had 2 quite big head wobbles - maybe a steering damper should be my next investment lol.

Thinking of maybe trying some R6 headers if I could find some cheap enough as it does feel like it has more to give, especially at the high end.

Again, the dyno is really going to tell me if changing a few other bits is worth pursuing. If I don't see 100HP, or the operator doesn't reckon with a tune we'll get there, then there isn't much point in throwing more money at it.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Right well.

SUPRISE!!





Highest was 99.79. Fuelling is all over the place as you can see as well as that massive flat spot.

Guy reckons we'd probably get to 105 hp at the top end Once it's mapped.

Result I'd say . If that flat spot goes obviously.