R6 Cams

[FinalImpact]

After advancing ignition, you must use higher octane fuel. So its a commitment.

If you install the cams, to get the most from them I'd BE TEMPTED TO use the cold clearance Spec for the R6.

It defies my thinking having the "race engine" with tighter valve clearances than the street engine from a reliability / high rev stand point but tighter clearances of the R6 get more lift from the cams without other changes. Granted its not much, but the event starts sooner and end later with reduced lash specs.

Valve clearance (cold) FZ
Intake 0.13–0.20 mm (0.0051–0.0079 in)
Exhaust 0.23–0.30 mm (0.0091–0.0118 in)

R6 - depends which year you check too....
Intake 0.12–0.19 mm (0.0047–0.0075 in)
Exhaust 0.16–0.23 mm (0.0063–0.0091 in)

Also run the colder 10 plug if the ignition gets bumped. --> Pick up at post 10, 19, 22 -->> Final Impact Winter project; playing w/trigger

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Well this is happening. I've bought the cams, they're on their way.

Probably going to stick them in and time them up using the R6 timing marks but I think I need to advance the intake to 102 to get the most out of them.

I will see what the gains are afterwards just using the R6 timing marks and if it needs mapping, then I may add the adjustable gears and degree them in. Then I may change the headers depending on what she's putting out.

Hoping the cams alone will break the 100WHP mark.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Can anyone tell me what the specs are for both the R6 and FZ6 cams in terms of ILC and ELC?

Thanks

 

[fazil]

Here are the cam infos:

FZ6 from manual:
Intake 32.450–32.550 mm (1.2776–1.2815 in) lobe A
Intake 24.950–25.050 mm (0.9823–0.9862 in) base B
=======================
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)


Exhaust 32.450–32.550 mm (1.2776–1.2815 in) lobe A
Exhaust 24.950–25.050 mm (0.9823–0.9862 in) base B
=======================
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)


R6S from manual:
Intake:
33.45 (1.317 in) lobe A
25.12 (0.989) base B
=======================
Intake Lift: 8.33mm (0.327 in)

Exhaust:
32.55 (1.282 in) lobe A
25.07 (0.987 in) base B
=======================
Exhaust Lift: 7.48mm (0.294 in)

Thanks to Final



You can check this link for more info:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/36860-camshaft-profile-anyone-know-specs-2.html?highlight=cam+specifications

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Taaa, interested in the ILC and ELC numbers as well for the R6 cams.

For the FZ6 from what I can find:

FZ6 all Years
INTAKE: 5VX-12170-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 1
I&E @ 1mm lift as measured by Marthy
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
IVO: 45° BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78° ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 106.5° // @1mm = ILC: 104.5° so some discrepancy
Duration: 303°

EXHAUST: 5VX-12180-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 2
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
EVO: 60° BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27° ATDC (5 @ 1mm)
ELC: 106.5°
Duration: 267°

 

[fazil]

Originally Posted by FinalImpact View Post
=================================
FZ6 all Years
INTAKE: 5VX-12170-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 1
I&E @ 1mm lift as measured by Marthy
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
IVO: 45° BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78° ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 106.5° // @1mm = ILC: 104.5° so some discrepancy
Duration: 303°

EXHAUST: 5VX-12180-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 2
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
EVO: 60° BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27° ATDC (5 @ 1mm)
ELC: 106.5°
Duration: 267°

I&E Overlap of 72°

=================================
2007 R6
Intake:
Lift: 8.33mm (0.327 in)
IVO: 39°BTDC
IVC: 65°ABDC
ILC: 103° ATDC
Duration: 284.00°

Exhaust:
Lift: 7.48mm (0.294 in)
EVO: 63°
EVC: 25°
ELC: 109°BTDC
Duration: 268.00°
Installed Centerline: 109° BTDC

I&E Overlap: 64.00°

I found some specifications in a R6 manual, but these are for race cams i guess.

R6 Standard Specifications (SS spec.) Item Spec


Bore × stroke 65.5 mm × 44.5 mm

Compression ratio 12.4 – 13.0 : 1

Valve timing (event angle)

Intake = 105°
Exhaust= 110°

Squish height 0.60 mm (minimum)

Minimum valve x piston clearance

Intake = 0.75 mm (minimum), 10° after exhaust top dead center
Exhaust= 1.75 mm (minimum), 11° before exhaust top dead center

Valve (tappet) clearance

Intake = 0.20 ±0.03 mm
Exhaust = 0.30 ±0.03 mm




Parts List
No. PART No. PART NAME Q'TY REMARKS
1 5SL-12171-70 SHAFT, CAM 1 1 INT.296
2 5SL-12181-70 SHAFT, CAM 2 1 EXT.284
3 5SL-12176-70 SPROCKET, CAM 1 1 105°
4 5SL-12177-70 SPROCKET, CAM 2 1 110°

Intake / Exhaust

Working angle 296° 284°
Valve timing (sprocket) 105° 110°
Valve clearance 0.17 – 0.23 mm 0.27 – 0.33 mm
Cam lobe

a: 33.45 – 33.55 mm a: 32.55 – 32.65 mm
b: 25.16 – 25.26 mm b: 25.09 – 25.19 mm


http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/pdf/03-04R6_race_manual.pdf

 

[FinalImpact]

So, while you're spending money, skip on over to amazon and grab a degree wheel. I forgot the thread pitch, but its not to hard to rig up a bolt and nuts and attach the wheel to the crank.

You'll need a dial indicator too. When i adjusted the valves I set out to degree the cams but couldn't get around the lobes with a straight pointer to get DI on top lifter bucket. Point: buy an extra tip if the DI doesn't come with some and weld/insert/drill - tap - set screw or what ever it takes a short wire to the DI which can be bent around the CAM lobes.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_6/187-8901445-7647835?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=degree+wheel&sprefix=degree%2Cautomotive%2C405"]Amazon.com: degree wheel: Automotive[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_18?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=dial+indicator+set&sprefix=dial+indicator+set%2Cautomotive%2C243&rh=n%3A15684181%2Ck%3Adial+indicator+set"]Amazon.com: dial indicator set: Automotive[/ame]

Also, if you do some reading out there, even the race boys slot the OEM gears for adjustment.

Fazil, if you could measure from the gears diameter and then measure from the Outer edge to the slot, we can do some quick math on how much to slot them. Oh - I need the hole diameter too!

Post 28 of this thread has Spring Specs.....

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Cams arrived:





Touch of scoring on the journals, but the best I've seen out of the ones I've looked at so far and nothing too bad.

Measured the clearances on the FZ6 cams last night, all in spec. Exhaust was on the tighter side of the allowed which is ok. I will probably run the R6 clearances on the exhaust, or try and get them into the cross over point.

I'll stick the R6 cams in and time them up as I say, and get a baseline. I'd like to know the timing specifics of the R6 cams, as I think I could miss match sprockets, between the 98-02, 03-05 R6's and FZ6 sprockets to get close to where I'd like to be without having to 'degree' them in.

I was also thinking of ordering the trigger wheel, either from the R6 or the +5 one and changing this midway through the dyno runs to see what difference there was to be gained with this.

Does anyone know what the difference is between the R6 and FZ6 trigger wheels?

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Well R6 cams are in.

Taking the FZ6 ones out:





R6 cams in:



Timed up to the R6 timing marks:



Didn't get to run it, as I'm waiting on some AIS blanking plates but it turns over okay.

I'll keep the thread updated.

 

[fazil]

Glad that you made it. :thumbup:
Was it easy to swap them? Adjusting the timing marks also?
Can you compare the weights of the cams? I think Fz6 cams are much more heavier than R6.

Did you check cam chain and the plastic chain adjusters, valve buckets for any wear? Did you lubricate the cam lobes and buckets?
Did you change valve adjustments to R6 specifications?

Too many questions

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Glad that you made it. :thumbup:
Was it easy to swap them? Adjusting the timing marks also?
Can you compare the weights of the cams? I think Fz6 cams are much more heavier than R6.

Did you check cam chain and the plastic chain adjusters, valve buckets for any wear? Did you lubricate the cam lobes and buckets?
Did you change valve adjustments to R6 specifications?

Too many questions

Swapping them on the whole was easy enough. It took me about 3 attempts to get the timing right. What i did was line the timing marks up correctly on the FZ6 cams then remove them and not move the crank. I then installed the R6 cams with the sprockets ( starting from the exhaust side) Taking up all the slack from the cam chain and crank. Then I put the intake cam in and it all worked okay. The timing is just the standard R6 timing at the moment.

Weight wise the R6 cams at a guess are about 50% lighter than the FZ6 cams. I didn't have scales to weigh them.

All the chain guides, and buckets etc are showing no signs of wear. The engine is on about 16k miles. Yep lubricated the lobes, journals and buckets With a liberal quantity of oil.

Valve clearence wise, the intake were all within spec. On the exhaust side luckily all the valves were within the cross over bit between clearances. They were all between 0.08 and 0.10 " which is the same as they were on the FZ6 cams.

 

[fazil]

Thanks for all the explanations.
Now time to fire it up.
Waiting for the first impressions.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Just waiting on my AIS blanking plates to install before I can put it back together and fire up. Should be on the road in no longer than 2 weeks to give me impressions, and I expect it'll be on the dyno soon after that as my guess is it'll need a tune up.

 

[FinalImpact]

Before the valve cover goes on, be sure to check piston to valve clearance around TDC.
At TDC - push down the intake and exhaust to see how far they move before hitting piston. Id repeat with at like 5 & 10 deg ATDC and 5 & 10 deg BTDC.

I could be mistaken but I'm not aware of anyone doing the the cam swap AND advancing the ignition timing. With the lighter cams, your engine will be very responsive to throttle input. Add a little fuel controller and you should be set.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Before the valve cover goes on, be sure to check piston to valve clearance around TDC.
At TDC - push down the intake and exhaust to see how far they move before hitting piston. Id repeat with at like 5 & 10 deg ATDC and 5 & 10 deg BTDC.

I could be mistaken but I'm not aware of anyone doing the the cam swap AND advancing the ignition timing. With the lighter cams, your engine will be very responsive to throttle input. Add a little fuel controller and you should be set.

What do I use to push the valves down?

 

[FinalImpact]

Pretty much anything that won't mar the bucket or scratch up the aluminum head where the bucket slides. A piece of hardwood comes to mind.

Also, because #1 is harder to get too, you could use another cylinder, but then you need that degree wheel to know exactly where the piston/crank is.

 

[fazil]

An interesting write up about R6 cams

Project R6: Part II | Top Secret R6 Motor Mods

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ I've read that before... Slot and go. Just like our good buddy Martin did. :thumbup:

Everyone needs a dyno at home so we can collect data! Blah

 

[0l0dom0l0]

Doesn't tell you what numbers they ended up with for the cam timing though!!! Lol, but a good read.

 

[0l0dom0l0]

If I could get hold of the 5SL race sprockets I'd stick those on for a comparison.