Possible Bad Coil Pack??

[UHcougarJohn]

opcorn:

Perhaps I'm being a J/A but all of the little inputs meld into a bigger picture via ECM. Each have SOME say so but only few KILL it like it is now. The pressure sensor and Air intake sensor are not it.
The one under the microscope (CPS) at this second could be the one but I never heard an answer about the ECM and IF it was EVER subject to electric shock, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE A COMPRESSION TEST hours, days, weeks, months before this happened. Why would I bring it up; if the PLUG WIRES WERE NOT GROUNDED THE ECM IS THE WEAKEST LINK! And what of the plugs?? Is it fair to say it flooded out BRAND NEW PLUGS?

As you were. . . opcorn:

If the ECM was shorted to ground it wasn't something that I did, but rather an issue with something on the bike that I am not finding. I haven't done anything electrical since I put all the Stock turn signals back on this past winter. About a year ago I changed the plugs. I had been riding everyday except bad weather days up until the bike started having these issues.

I have not run the bike since I installed the new plugs because I wanted to install the new Air Temp Sensor first:Flash:

Cant wait until this problem is solved

 

[FinalImpact]

If the ECM was shorted to ground it wasn't something that I did, but rather an issue with something on the bike that I am not finding. I haven't done anything electrical since I put all the Stock turn signals back on this past winter. About a year ago I changed the plugs. I had been riding everyday except bad weather days up until the bike started having these issues.

I have not run the bike since I installed the new plugs because I wanted to install the new Air Temp Sensor first:Flash:

Cant wait until this problem is solved

based upon what you said here "...If the ECM was shorted to ground...", I'm going do a little repeat as maybe it didn't makes sense the first time. No, this is not about shorting the ECM to ground. Please read on. . .

If an ignition coil is given the energy to produce a spark from the ECM, but the secondary HIGH VOLTAGE LEAD does not have a grounded spark plug attached OR A SUITABLE GROUND (meaning something like a screw driver is inserted into the spark plug cap and grounded to the engines block so the energy can go to ground safely), that energy will take the path of least resistance and make its way somewhere. Worst CASE SCENARIO is the ECM!!!

If there is no failure of the wire for ARC-OVER to GND, NO failures of the CAP for ARC-OVER to GND, or NO failure of the COIL BODY like ARC-THROUGH to the bolt holding it on the chassis, that HIGH VOLTAGE ENERGY CAN travel back the direction it came from >>THINK ECM<< and BAM! The electronics take a high voltage hit. Some silicone junctions can take a ton of abuse and some just fail for no reason what so ever. Good PARTS have a high dielectric strength to resist ARC-OVER but the down side is, they have now done such a good job of holding that energy from jumping out to the WRONG place so now it has NO WHERE TO GO but BACK the direction it came from but at a much higher ratio so the electronic get killed. Rough guess, but the ECM may produce 400v to fire the coil each time. The turns ratio on the coil jacks that up to 18 to 28,000 volts. That kind of voltage kills stuff!

So this could be from a cap left loose, a compression test done a year ago and the plugs weren't grounded, ANY testing with the spark plug(s) removed and/or NO ground present inside the spark plug cap.

This damage is only visible at high power scanning microscope level and it internal to the ECM so the question has to be asked if this EVER happened to this bike that you know of. Especially with the recent events.

 

[Motogiro]

based upon what you said here "...If the ECM was shorted to ground...", I'm going do a little repeat as maybe it didn't makes sense the first time. No, this is not about shorting the ECM to ground. Please read on. . .

If an ignition coil is given the energy to produce a spark from the ECM, but the secondary HIGH VOLTAGE LEAD does not have a grounded spark plug attached OR A SUITABLE GROUND (meaning something like a screw driver is inserted into the spark plug cap and grounded to the engines block so the energy can go to ground safely), that energy will take the path of least resistance and make its way somewhere. Worst CASE SCENARIO is the ECM!!!

If there is no failure of the wire for ARC-OVER to GND, NO failures of the CAP for ARC-OVER to GND, or NO failure of the COIL BODY like ARC-THROUGH to the bolt holding it on the chassis, that HIGH VOLTAGE ENERGY CAN travel back the direction it came from >>THINK ECM<< and BAM! The electronics take a high voltage hit. Some silicone junctions can take a ton of abuse and some just fail for no reason what so ever. Good PARTS have a high dielectric strength to resist ARC-OVER but the down side is, they have now done such a good job of holding that energy from jumping out to the WRONG place so now it has NO WHERE TO GO but BACK the direction it came from but at a much higher ratio so the electronic get killed. Rough guess, but the ECM may produce 400v to fire the coil each time. The turns ratio on the coil jacks that up to 18 to 28,000 volts. That kind of voltage kills stuff!

So this could be from a cap left loose, a compression test done a year ago and the plugs weren't grounded, ANY testing with the spark plug(s) removed and/or NO ground present inside the spark plug cap.

This damage is only visible at high power scanning microscope level and it internal to the ECM so the question has to be asked if this EVER happened to this bike that you know of. Especially with the recent events.

All of this is good and a possibility but I believe if there were failure in regard to primary coil switching in the ECU there would be a total loss if there were a high tension spark through the Lo V switching. I think there would be total junction failure. There seems to be a condition of cold running and then failure. Hopefully there would probably be optical isolation for that part of the circuit to further protect from those possibilities.

 

[FinalImpact]

All of this is good and a possibility but I believe if there were failure in regard to primary coil switching in the ECU there would be a total loss if there were a high tension spark through the Lo V switching. I think there would be total junction failure. There seems to be a condition of cold running and then failure. Hopefully there would probably be optical isolation for that part of the circuit to further protect from those possibilities.

As said, any moment in time like a compression test without proper wire grounding could compromise the ECM but I would like to think its protected against such things. I would opt for an ICE PACK to the ECM and see if it runs longer. . . I mentioned that early. . . PS - ECM's go for 40 to 50 on fleebay. . .

Anyone ever notice the Mitsubishi emblem on the ECM? maybe that's why?? Same with the Vacuum sensor. :Flip:

 

[UHcougarJohn]

Fixing the two vacuum leaks and replacing the Air Temp Sensor did not fix the problem.

On Saturday I dropped the bike off at Yamaha and I am awaiting their diagnosis. They are closed on Sunday and Monday as are most bike shops locally, so I probably won’t hear any thing back until Wednesday or so.

Hoping they can figure it out, order receive parts, and fix the bike before the 25th as this is when I am suppose to leave for Colorado

Wish me luck:thumbup:

Thanks.

 

[UHcougarJohn]

***Update***

Yamaha has been working on my bike since last thursday and still cannot pinpoint my problem. Last I talked to the service guy he said as far as the could tell every thing on the bike is in tip top shape, its just bogging down and sputtering out when it begins to warm up. They are now checking fuel injectors.

As for my trip to Colorado, I got lucky and friend is going to lend me his fz1. My days on a fz6 may be numbered. Leaving for CO Saturday morning.

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[UHcougarJohn]

So just got off the phone with the dealer and they still are unable to figure it out but they are not gona give up. Said they have checked everything and its all perfect, have not had to replace or adjust anything. Also, they called Yamaha Tech line and got nothing:banghead:

Leaving on my CO trip tommorow

 

[Motogiro]

So just got off the phone with the dealer and they still are unable to figure it out but they are not gona give up. Said they have checked everything and its all perfect, have not had to replace or adjust anything. Also, they called Yamaha Tech line and got nothing:banghead:

Leaving on my CO trip tommorow

Have a fun trip! Sorry you haven't found out what the problem is yet. If all the inputs to the ECU seem good I would suspect the ECU. Another thought I'm having is a head gasket leak between cylinders as the engine warms. Sounds like a tough one to figure out but I'm sure it will happen.

 

[UHcougarJohn]

Well my trip was great and the fz1 my budy let me borrow was bad ass Plenty of touque and great top end.

Anyways Saturday will make 4 weeks since I dropped my bike at yamaha, and they still can't tell me what's wrong with it

They said that they have been in touch with yamaha in california at leaste every other day and have been doing there suggested testing.

So far they have not been able to make problem worse or better.

Never thought they would not be able to figure it out

I am about ready to go pick up my bike and take somewhere else.

 

[UHcougarJohn]

So Yamaha called today and said they believe they have solved the problem, a chassis ground issue. They said its repaired but they want to test ride it again tommorow.

We'll see, been waiting way to long to get my bike back.

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[Motogiro]

So Yamaha called today and said they believe they have solved the problem, a chassis ground issue. They said its repaired but they want to test ride it again tommorow.

We'll see, been waiting way to long to get my bike back.

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That might make sense if a return path through the chassis were bad!

 

[Motogiro]

Also. if that's it could you possibly take a picture or tell us where this ground was bad? That would probably help another member when we hear these same symptoms.

 

[FinalImpact]

WOW!!!!
opcorn:

 

[UHcougarJohn]

I'll provide further detail and post a pick, I just hope it is the true fix.

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[UHcougarJohn]

WOW!!!!
opcorn:

Hope you have enjoyed the popcorn

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[FinalImpact]

Hope you have enjoyed the popcorn

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I'm really full after your vaca! lol

 

[UHcougarJohn]

So picked up the bike Saturday and so far so good, except now it seems the fan is not working because the bike gets a little hot in traffic. Gona check that out this week.

The guy on the phone told me it was a ground issue, but when I picked up the bike the tech said it was an intermittent issue with the connection from the spark plug wire to the cap. He said he clipped a little off the end of the wire and screwed cap back on. The problem was so simple they didn't charge more than the diagnostic fee to fix it.

I do have a few complaints besides the fact that they took so long and never called me back when they said they would. 1. They lost the old parts I had changed and brought to them. 2. They didn't do a good job of putting the bike back together after cheching the valve and timing(the black rubber water shield was all weired, missing a bolt that holds the battery tray and air box down, and they hooked both leads of my battery tender to the positive and both leads on my power outlet to the negative). 3. None of the air box throttle body bolt clamps where tight. 4. The hoses from the tank were still all kinked up under the bike form having the tank up.

Besides all that which I already corrected, It is good to have a functioning bike back. Finally my truck will get to rest


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[TownsendsFJR1300]

So picked up the bike Saturday and so far so good, except now it seems the fan is not working because the bike gets a little hot in traffic. Gona check that out this week.

The guy on the phone told me it was a ground issue, but when I picked up the bike the tech said it was an intermittent issue with the connection from the spark plug wire to the cap. He said he clipped a little off the end of the wire and screwed cap back on. The problem was so simple they didn't charge more than the diagnostic fee to fix it.

I do have a few complaints besides the fact that they took so long and never called me back when they said they would. 1. They lost the old parts I had changed and brought to them. 2. They didn't do a good job of putting the bike back together after cheching the valve and timing(the black rubber water shield was all weired, missing a bolt that holds the battery tray and air box down, and they hooked both leads of my battery tender to the positive and both leads on my power outlet to the negative). 3. None of the air box throttle body bolt clamps where tight. 4. The hoses from the tank were still all kinked up under the bike form having the tank up.

Besides all that which I already corrected, It is good to have a functioning bike back. Finally my truck will get to rest


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I've found the results you posted after the bike being in the shop to be somewhat common unfortuanatly... Most warranty work (not all) I've found isues with the bike except from one shop. I go over the bike when I get it back.

You got the small issues fixed and at least the MAIN problem is now resolved...

Now, go ride!!!

 

[trepetti]

Step 1, move the suspected coil pack to the other cylinder pair. Step 2, if problem moves, move the coil pack to the trash.

You got it

 

[FinalImpact]

So picked up the bike Saturday and so far so good, except now it seems the fan is not working because the bike gets a little hot in traffic. Gona check that out this week.

The guy on the phone told me it was a ground issue, but when I picked up the bike the tech said it was an intermittent issue with the connection from the spark plug wire to the cap. He said he clipped a little off the end of the wire and screwed cap back on. The problem was so simple they didn't charge more than the diagnostic fee to fix it.

I do have a few complaints besides the fact that they took so long and never called me back when they said they would. 1. They lost the old parts I had changed and brought to them. 2. They didn't do a good job of putting the bike back together after cheching the valve and timing(the black rubber water shield was all weired, missing a bolt that holds the battery tray and air box down, and they hooked both leads of my battery tender to the positive and both leads on my power outlet to the negative). 3. None of the air box throttle body bolt clamps where tight. 4. The hoses from the tank were still all kinked up under the bike form having the tank up.

Besides all that which I already corrected, It is good to have a functioning bike back. Finally my truck will get to rest


Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

That is TRULY SAD! I was like biting my tongue waiting for the list to stop! I'm glad you inspected it after they looked at it.

I hope it serves you well and is trouble free going forward. IIRC you measured each of the caps and plug wires so trimming the wires seems kinda weak. Time will tell.