Possible Bad Coil Pack??

[UHcougarJohn]

I remember someone once said their TPS tested okay but it wasn't okay. Why would you go through the engineering and testing mode to test something that might still pass the test and be bad? Slowly turn the throttle. If the number change gradually and top and bottom numbers are in spec it is good.

Just checked again, the tps in diag mode responds well to fast and slow throttle movement, 16 at the bottom and 100 at the top.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

As an FYI, my old 2004 FJR had a mandatory re-call for the TPS. My numbers read correctly when checked thru the dash. If finding the numbers skipping when cold, is a definite, "its broke"..

Although my bike ran good (had a different problem), it is possible when the TPS gets hot, it will start acting up...

To rule the TPS out completely, get it warm/operating temp again, turn off and check the numbers again immediatly...

As a side note, when my FJR was acting up (different symptoms, high speed occassional misfire), it turned out to be a harness connector under the tank that apparently liked to collect rain/moisture and turn green (I found this on an FJR forum as it was a common problem). Once cleaned and packed with di-lectric grease, fired right up and I could hear it running normal again... Was fine for another 4 years or so until I sold it.. I spent the day at Yamaha, they tried, had Yamaha headquarters in Ca on the phone and couldn't fix the problem...

Point being, while the tank is up, perhaps start checking connectors/grounds for corrosion/tightness, the issues with this bike is very odd (as was my connector making intermediate connections causing on/off running issues). Tracking down these sensors may yeild just a corroded contact/connector, thus the sensor not sending the correct signal, if any signal, to the ECU..

Just out of curiosity, did anyone check the ECU harness plug and how clean the connectors/wires are? Corrosion in there would obviously cause problems...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just checked again, the tps in diag mode responds well to fast and slow throttle movement, 16 at the bottom and 100 at the top.

I hope your checking NOT ONLY the high and low numbers, but ALL THE NUMBERS inbetween, both opening and closing the throttle slowly.. **If your missing a number, it skips any, its bad...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

One other thing that was common on the FJR and I've read it happens rarely on the FZ6. If you turn the engine off too soon (cold condition) it wouldn't start again without waiting...

The "fix" for this was to hold the throttle WFO and crank it over. It would then start. You may try this when the bike stalls at the end of the block and see what happens... The bike would run fine after that. Perhaps the ECU got mixed signals and jambed up (not unlike our lap tops sometimes)...

Again for S&G's, and while your under the tank, perhaps a battery disconnect and re-set the ECU.. Just a thought...

 

[UHcougarJohn]

I will double check all the conectios in the morning, I did look at most of them but didn't find any corrosion. I did check the ecu last night and added some dielectric grease.

I checked the tps slowly and it responded well to all throttle positions.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you can, check the TPS hot too, just to rule that out..

When checking any connectors, as small as they are, its real easy to have one push out of the plastic harness connector just a little bit and NOT notice it..

Another member, with a faulty fuel gauge (after raising the tank) just learned that its not hard to pull a wire out of the connector. He was directed to check it, posted it was ok and shortly thereafter, re-posted, sure enough, one of two wires pulled out just enough to loose contact.. Once plugged back in fully, problem resolved...

 

[iSteve]

Back in the 80"s I had a GPZ550 that had a similar problem. I had a ignition timing pickup that would stop working when it was hot. It was much simpler to diagnose because I would drop two cylinders after about 10 minutes of driving.

 

[Ben_H]

You should check the crank sensor It controls spark. You can check it using a multimeter.

 

[UHcougarJohn]

You should check the crank sensor It controls spark. You can check it using a multimeter.

We unplugged it last night and it tested in spec, didn't remove it just unplugged and tested.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

We unplugged it last night and it tested in spec, didn't remove it just unplugged and tested.

May I ask how many miles on the bike?

I ask in that "Vegasrider" had to replace several pick up sensors (lots of miles on the bike) after the worn cam chain eventually hacked them up. A PM to him, may shed some light if his sensor passed initial electronic testing, just a thought..

 

[UHcougarJohn]

May I ask how many miles on the bike?

I ask in that "Vegasrider" had to replace several pick up sensors (lots of miles on the bike) after the worn cam chain eventually hacked them up. A PM to him, may shed some light if his sensor passed initial electronic testing, just a thought..

The bike has 31350 on the clock. I will send vegasrider a pm.

 

[FinalImpact]

See this clip; why is there on the coil wire as I don't think they come out do they?

Questions I don't have answers for:
Does it matter what side of the coils the wires go to? In everything I have encountered, it does. Are they correct correct or could they be reversed?

HAVE you EVER cranked it over without a grounded plug in the secondary wire (coil output wire) in place and GROUNDED?????


If so, the COILS energy had to go somewhere! The weakest and most likely component to be damaged would be the ECM! This is a HUGE deal. Often times it will arc over to the nearest ground, but OTHER times it nails the ECM taking its life.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

See this clip; why is there on the coil wire as I don't think they come out do they?

Questions I don't have answers for:
Does it matter what side of the coils the wires go to? In everything I have encountered, it does. Are they correct correct or could they be reversed?

HAVE you EVER cranked it over without a grounded plug in the secondary wire (coil output wire) in place and GROUNDED?????


If so, the COILS energy had to go somewhere! The weakest and most likely component to be damaged would be the ECM! This is a HUGE deal. Often times it will arc over to the nearest ground, but OTHER times it nails the ECM taking its life.

Per the 07 manual (page 9-5), the orange/black goes to the #1 and #4 coil (shown as #28 on the wiring diagram), gray/black to #2 & 3 coil (shown as #29 on the wiring diagram)

 

[FinalImpact]

Per the 07 manual (page 9-5), the orange/black goes to the #1 and #4 coil (shown as #28 on the wiring diagram), gray/black to #2 & 3 coil (shown as #29 on the wiring diagram)

right'O - that does the firing order but what about each coils POLARITY to the Spade connectors?? Or did i miss something?

 

[UHcougarJohn]

The wiring is correct and the old coil came with the wires already connected. I just un screwed the caps from the old coil and screwed them onto the new coil.

My buddy is coming over in a little while with a meter and a scope. We are going to test all the sensors.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

right'O - that does the firing order but what about each coils POLARITY to the Spade connectors?? Or did i miss something?

From what I can make out on the wiring diagram, it doesn't specify. The connector from the main harhess to the coils, should it make a difference, should ony go on one way (I would think).

IE, the tuel level and fuel pump plugs will ony fit on their respective plugs and each wil\fl only go on one way and cannot be spinned about 180 degrees. ''

 

[FinalImpact]

From what I can make out on the wiring diagram, it doesn't specify. The connector from the main harhess to the coils, should it make a difference, should ony go on one way (I would think).

IE, the tuel level and fuel pump plugs will ony fit on their respective plugs and each wil\fl only go on one way and cannot be spinned about 180 degrees. ''

Scott, they're individual spades so its free game! See pic above. But I can't believe its not specified in the manual. . . but then again with a spark waste system it may not matter?? On **MOST** other systems it matters. I'm going this direction based upon efficiency and if it were backwards, (maybe the +/- being swapped) is causing it to over heat sooner :don'tknow: This line of thinking does nothing for why it failed to begin with tho.

Pic of 6 banger waste spark. Accuracy is uhm - well I don't know if its applicable. . . View attachment 44058


John, I have a O'scope but I have no extension cord to get power to the location. Maybe ride the bike upstairs into apt??? :spank: I thought about it for winter storage but I'll likely get booted for such things. . .

Tossing out ideas - you guys think its flooding. So we need to know the duty cycling of an injector at idle. They are basically little solenoids being switched on/off to create AFR. At idle I'd expect to see less than 10% duty cycle and near WOT near 95% duty cycle or near 12V 95% On and 5% off time.
be careful getting a scop probe towards the ECM ignition output to coil - its likely upwards of 200V or more and could damage equipment w/out the right probe installed. hint capable of 600V etc. . .

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I wasn't aware of the SEPARATE spade connectors but as you stated, the problem started before touching any wiring.

I have an old automotive ignition timing light that slips over one spark plug wire at a time (powered by a 12 volt battery).

I wish one could be obtained (auto parts rental store, or ?) and just put that on each plug wire with the bike running..

You would literally be able to see, from the timing light (stops flashing, or flashing is diminished considerably), if a wire, coil, etc, is getting spark or not when it starts acting up (warm). If it stays lit all the time (lights on each firing signal) on all the plugs, we can move on to potential other causes...

That alone would narrow down and point us in the right direction...

 

[FinalImpact]

I wasn't aware of the SEPARATE spade connectors but as you stated, the problem started before touching any wiring.

I have an old automotive ignition timing light that slips over one spark plug wire at a time (powered by a 12 volt battery).

I wish one could be obtained (auto parts rental store, or ?) and just put that on each plug wire with the bike running..

You would literally be able to see, from the timing light (stops flashing, or flashing is diminished considerably), if a wire, coil, etc, is getting spark or not when it starts acting up (warm). If it stays lit all the time (lights on each firing signal) on all the plugs, we can move on to potential other causes...

That alone would narrow down and point us in the right direction...

Agreed!
My dad might have one. . . where is that POS timing light??? DAMN I hated that thing! It had a CHROME BODY and a BAD GROUND! The result was mush pain and suffering! Although the games dad and I played he likely cut the ground just to watch me jump and smash my head into the hood! Funny I never thought about why the ground would break internal to the GUN UNLESS IT WAS SABOTAGE!!!!! :spank: Questions have been RAISED! Sadly i can't F with him as ye ol Pace maker could make multiple UNWANTED adjustments! Pay back is difficult!

 

[Motogiro]

See this clip; why is there on the coil wire as I don't think they come out do they?

Questions I don't have answers for:
Does it matter what side of the coils the wires go to? In everything I have encountered, it does. Are they correct correct or could they be reversed?

HAVE you EVER cranked it over without a grounded plug in the secondary wire (coil output wire) in place and GROUNDED?????


If so, the COILS energy had to go somewhere! The weakest and most likely component to be damaged would be the ECM! This is a HUGE deal. Often times it will arc over to the nearest ground, but OTHER times it nails the ECM taking its life.

Correct! Never run the coil without the plug grounded or a set mechanical gap to the ground. The secondary voltage will try the next best path to seek ground and that might be through the primary to the ECU because its switching the the ground path hi to lo... For that matter any of the new high energy systems today...