Looking for ideas - engine braking, need a brake light on to warn others

[FinalImpact]

People nuisance tap on the brake everyday and there's no control or issue with that. In fact you can control the off time with a logic control or simple R/C constant circuit that would create less of the quick off time you're talking about which is a very valuable thought on this.
Thanks!

It pretty easy to weed out false triggers of momentary high vacuum which could trigger the B/L unnecessarily. As said, a delay circuit can do this easily so that is not our concern at this point. However my bike is apart getting parts painted so I won't be collecting vacuum readings right away.


BTW; VERY WELL SAID UP THERE!!! I thought I made it clear it was about exploring options and finding solutions. . . Thanks X10 Cliff!

 

[FinalImpact]

As for the 60$ device found, me and another reader got the same idea that it takes an initial brake light input to trigger it. However I'm not sure that's what they meant.

Should a vacuum switch and small resovoir with a beed port work, basic over the counter materials could make this work easily and cheap.

Cliff, also think not just in terms of electric delays but a very small volume (example a 10cc syringe) with a tiny bleed orifice to manifold vacuum could act as the timing device to reduce false triggers. Basically once we know the range of vacuum acquired during deceleration, the circuit can be tested in house with a syringe and a power supply. Just thinking out loud. . .

BLOCK DIA:
Manifold Vac----->metered orifice----->reservoir--->vacuum switch and logic to lamp.

 

[Motogiro]

I did some quick sourcing and whoa! There are a lot of vacuum switches out there!
Here's one that's adjustable. Electro-Mechanical Vacuum Switch
Also check out the PDF I'm attaching. This just to give an idea of how easily this concept can take hold and become a viable reality.
Breadboard time!

 

[Motogiro]

As for the 60$ device found, me and another reader got the same idea that it takes an initial brake light input to trigger it. However I'm not sure that's what they meant.

Should a vacuum switch and small resovoir with a beed port work, basic over the counter materials could make this work easily and cheap.

Cliff, also think not just in terms of electric delays but a very small volume (example a 10cc syringe) with a tiny bleed orifice to manifold vacuum could act as the timing device to reduce false triggers. Basically once we know the range of vacuum acquired during deceleration, the circuit can be tested in house with a syringe and a power supply. Just thinking out loud. . .

BLOCK DIA:
Manifold Vac----->metered orifice----->reservoir--->vacuum switch and logic to lamp.

I think the atmosphere change speeds will be fine and we can just delay the off time. Every time there's a hi trigger the time is reset and dwells to off again. Normal brake circuit will behave as OEM.
I really think this is a great idea and I bet really simple to do

 

[FinalImpact]

I did some quick sourcing and whoa! There are a lot of vacuum switches out there!
Here's one that's adjustable. Electro-Mechanical Vacuum Switch
Also check out the PDF I'm attaching. This just to give an idea of how easily this concept can take hold and become a viable reality.
Breadboard time!

OK - that's close but I'm thinking the 22" is about where its going to come to life vacuum wise.

IMO - we probably need something from 20" to 35" hg that can handle an occasional + positive pressure should the engine backfire so it doesn't destroy the sensor. However we may just need a seperate device to protect it. Mine has never skipped a beat. That doesn't mean it won't ever.

 

[Motogiro]

OK - that's close but I'm thinking the 22" is about where its going to come to life vacuum wise.

IMO - we probably need something from 20" to 35" hg that can handle an occasional + positive pressure should the engine backfire so it doesn't destroy the sensor. However we may just need a seperate device to protect it. Mine has never skipped a beat. That doesn't mean it won't ever.

I would think the smaller hole on the inlet wouldn't allow enough positive pressure in volume to damage it and it will still operate with out latency problems.

I'm still not throwing cherry bombs down my throttle bodies to test that theory out

Of course a real engine backfire is indicative of other serious engine problems.

 

[abraxas]

Few ideas from me.

1. There's a fizzer east side of town that has led blinkers mounted next to the brake light. Not what you're looking for but addresses the same problem.

2. When i've stopped dead at a light, and i see some cage on my 6, i tap the brake light, causing it to flash. Perhaps wiring up an indicator relay into the brake light? Of course it could doesn't address activation.

3. WRT activation, a switch that activates when throttle is at zero would be easiest imho. If you use a flasher as 2 above, it would do it's job even when stationary, unless you get really hectic and create an on/off switch too, so ON and it's flashing unless you're gassing it (even 10%)?

Let me know what you decide, nice project!

 

[iSteve]

I see a possible problem here. If you ever do get rear ended and the police or insurance see you modified your brake light you may be held responsible for the accident. And many states you could get a fine if they think your tampering with the brake light caused the accident.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I see a possible problem here. If you ever do get rear ended and the police or insurance see you modified your brake light you may be held responsible for the accident. And many states you could get a fine if they think your tampering with the brake light caused the accident.

That's a possibility but in most states it doesn't matter what really caused the wreck to begin with but the person who rear ended the the other is ALWAYS at fault according to the law and they get charged with filling too close

 

[ohgood]

That's a possibility but in most states it doesn't matter what really caused the wreck to begin with but the person who rear ended the the other is ALWAYS at fault according to the law and they get charged with filling too close

Forget the legality, think about the hurt !

Who is to blame doesn't matter if/when you're under a car. If someone is tailgating, give them a few signals, if no change in bahvior, get off the road !

 

[Motogiro]

I see a possible problem here. If you ever do get rear ended and the police or insurance see you modified your brake light you may be held responsible for the accident. And many states you could get a fine if they think your tampering with the brake light caused the accident.

Interest thought.
People tamper with their bikes every day. They tamper with everything on them including headlights and directionals. In fact people replace the OEM tail lamps with standard automotive 1157 bulbs! There's no law against replacing your tail lamp bulb with the wrong 1157 bulb.

The brake light has no relativity to the operation of your vehicle. It's a signaling device.
The idea that we're talking about in the thread would be to have a brake indication as the bike is being slowed from engine braking. I doesn't even have to come on during down shifting. Just harder engine braking.

As far as some one hitting you, pull away, get over and get out of the way. Why would you continue to allow a dangerous condition to exist?

 

[FinalImpact]

Thread is not about style, right/wrong, where the sun shines, what lane we're in, or where we choose to ride -

If you're technical minded and have some ideas on how to bring this concept full circle - feel free to add something.

Thanks!

 

[ohgood]

Thread is not about style, right/wrong, where the sun shines, what lane we're in, or where we choose to ride -

If you're technical minded and have some ideas on how to bring this concept full circle - feel free to add something.

Thanks!

Sorry, I helped sidetrack it myself

 

[iSteve]

Interest thought.
People tamper with their bikes every day. They tamper with everything on them including headlights and directionals. In fact people replace the OEM tail lamps with standard automotive 1157 bulbs! There's no law against replacing your tail lamp bulb with the wrong 1157 bulb.

The brake light has no relativity to the operation of your vehicle. It's a signaling device.

My friend does state inspections and he won't inspect a vehicle if he thinks a part of the safety system is not DOT approved. Changing a bulb is fine as long as the bulb is DOT. I don't think a extra brake switch hooked to a vacuum line is DOT approved. Even if it works a insurance company could question it if you try to make a claim.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Thread is not about style, right/wrong, where the sun shines, what lane we're in, or where we choose to ride -

If you're technical minded and have some ideas on how to bring this concept full circle - feel free to add something.

Thanks!

I'm sorry to keep aging it on but I think it's a great idea no matter what anyone else thinks, I just can't Stand it when someone ask a question such as yours that is geared towards improving safety then you get people telling you to just stop doing what is completely normal, acceptable, and 100% legal.... Same thing on the ones who say just buy another bike..

So I really am done now lol, unless I can come up with another idea for it

 

[FinalImpact]

I see a possible problem here. If you ever do get rear ended and the police or insurance see you modified your brake light you may be held responsible for the accident. And many states you could get a fine if they think your tampering with the brake light caused the accident.

In that case wouldn't all sequential LEDs, Programmed multi-flash brake systems as well as tail tidies without the OEM direct switch to light operation be effected?

Mind you the goal here does not change the OEM operation of the tail light. It will not flicker, flash, blink or do anything it doesn't do now without rider input. It will in addition to OEM operation, light the tail lamp when rapid deceleration occurs such as engine braking.

But thanks for pointing that out. Some states likely have many cars/bikes that will fail inspection.

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Honestly, I think your best bet overall is an accelerometer. Then when you experience deceleration in excess of X g's and the brake light isn't on, have it complete one of the brake switch circuits so the brake lights turn on.

You'll need an arduino board, the accelerometer board and someone that knows programming. Shoot, you could even tap it into the speedo line and if the speed reads 0 and the light isn't on, have it turn the lights on, or flash or something.

That's my $0.02

 

[xsrider]

Hi folks,
This is my first post here, so hi from Spain, I'll find some time to walk around the welcome post and introduce myself.
Meanwhile, being technically minded as requested :thumbup:, I was just about to post an answer like DownrangeFuture's :thumbup:

To be honest this project has been around my mind for a while, not to steal credit from FinalImpact but to reinforce the usefulness of the solution.

I happen to work with electronics and software and typically, the simpler is the better. I mean, if you want to detect deceleration, just go and check deceleration and act on the lights based on that data, not based on the inner workings of the engine.

A cheap DIY approach would perfectly doable with an Arduino and some LEDs. You could easily even build a device for testing the solution "in-a-box" before tampering with the tail lights. You could mount it on your handlebar and see if it lights the LEDs as expected.
Afterwards, if it works you could build it with more professional approaches

It shouldn't be hard to put together a bill of materials: arduino, accelerometer, LEDs driver, LEDs and power (batteries for testing)
The hardest part would be the software for avoiding false positives. But again, I'd rather prefer a false positive here than not lighting up the LEDs

I don't have a lot of time lately, but with some time we could build up a demo and share it.

Cheers!
XSrider
PS: by the way, this is a great forum that you all are building congrats!

 

[gpostarmy]

I don't know who here has seen the trunk monkey videos. However, a tail bag monkey that jumped out and say threw poo at them would probably be quite effective although impractical. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8avOiTUcD4Y]Trunk Monkey Compilation - YouTube[/ame]

 

[motojoe122]

That was the funniest thing I've seen all week:rockon::rockon:

Thank you!