Looking for ideas - engine braking, need a brake light on to warn others

[SweaterDude]

ok here's my contribution:

when i first started riding everybody told me to tap the brakes a few times when initiating the engine braking. the point being to simulate a strobe which is more likely to grab attention than a singe even longer lasting burn of the lights. so my suggestion is to but a brake light system that engages a strobe sequence for the first few seconds then turns solid. THEY EXIST my dad has 2 on his bike one in the regular brake area and one in the fender extender. then set your pull on the lever to the setting where it engages the fastest.

RESULT- less frequent pulling of the brake for a strobe & will stack for a longer-lasting strobe before solid light

again i was taught to use the breaks to signal my EB anyway so thats how i ride.

 

[FinalImpact]

Looking for something like this; although it might be a tad over-kill and it says factory set which is a bust. LF20-V | Vacuum Pressure Switch | Vacuum Switches | Pressure Switches | Mamco Precision Switches I'd guess they'd want at least $40 usd but :don'tknow: phL 866.395.2902

Its effect range is 1.1 in/hg to 22in/hg with huge burst psi of 150psi.

But what we need is user adjustable from 10in/hg to 30in/hg and if its enexpensive, we replace it if it fails vs having one desiogned to withstand positive pressures. Not many Boosted FZ's around. . .

Another option is a piezo pressure transducer and a small amplifier circuit. The problem with these is most use a wheat stone bridge layout which means we need a real stable power supply.

And here is this:
Adjustable 8 - 30in/hg as needed and $65USD ouch!
Pressure, Vacuum & Compound Switches | MSCDirect.com

PCBA mount. . . didn't find a good match tho. . .
Pressure Sensors

That's what i found tonight. . .

 

[FinalImpact]

Looking for something like this; although it might be a tad over-kill and it says factory set which is a bust. LF20-V | Vacuum Pressure Switch | Vacuum Switches | Pressure Switches | Mamco Precision Switches I'd guess they'd want at least $40 usd but :don'tknow: phL 866.395.2902

Its effect range is 1.1 in/hg to 22in/hg with huge burst psi of 150psi.

But what we need is user adjustable from 10in/hg to 30in/hg and if its inexpensive, we replace it if it fails vs having one designed to withstand positive pressures. Not many Boosted FZ's around. . .

Another option is a piezo pressure transducer and a small amplifier circuit. The problem with these is most use a wheat stone bridge layout which means we need a real stable power supply.

And here is this:
Adjustable 8 - 30in/hg as needed and $65USD ouch!
Pressure, Vacuum & Compound Switches | MSCDirect.com

PCBA mount. . . didn't find a good match tho. . .
Pressure Sensors

That's what i found tonight. . .

Hmm - - I called those folks at the top - the little bugger is $25 and gets cheaper the more you buy. Plus the end user CAN adjust them but there are 4 different PN's for the range of operation as the internal spring is different depending upon the range of vacuum wishing trip at.

LF20-V | Vacuum Pressure Switch | Vacuum Switches | Pressure Switches | Mamco Precision Switches

They also suggested these models MAM-005 and LS31 could work for our needs and they're cheaper too!

 

[FinalImpact]

SENSOR 30" H2O G MV MONO - 30 INCH-G-BASIC Although hind site says we need a differential not gauge pressure. . .

$37 for a 0" - 30" WC transducer. None adjustable
Supply = 6v
output = 0 ~ 30mV

BOM:
442-1057-ND SENSOR 30" H2O G MV MONO
6v regulator
differential comparator or similar
mini pcba
adjustable pot
various caps, diodes, resistor
FET hi output

Potentially less than $60 for all the parts. Can anything get close to $that$?

 

[ChevyFazer]

If you pursue that, get it to work right, and would be willing to make another I would buy one

 

[2006_FZ6]

Found this. Maybe what you are looking for !!

I just installed this over the weekend. Takes about 15 minutes if you know which wire to cut. Had to come to our forum to find out. Cliff somewhere described which wire was which. If you do get this, cut the yellow wire.

Works well as far as I can tell. If you have a LED tail light, make sure you get he XP version.

 

[FinalImpact]

If you pursue that, get it to work right, and would be willing to make another I would buy one

haha! I'm still waiting for it to quit raining!
If I build it and use it, it'd be after lots of testing so don't hold yer breath! Lets cross this path again later k.

 

[FinalImpact]

I just installed this over the weekend. Takes about 15 minutes if you know which wire to cut. Had to come to our forum to find out. Cliff somewhere described which wire was which. If you do get this, cut the yellow wire.

Works well as far as I can tell. If you have a LED tail light, make sure you get he XP version.

Potentially less than $60 for all the parts. Can anything get close to $that$?

Apparently so! But this is a bit invasive for me. I don't oppose the action of using the the actual brake - you let us know what you think after a while!

 

[MrMogensen]

Possibly a 3rd brake light switch at either the handlebar or engine end of the throttle cable, so that when throttle is zero the brake light turns on! This has to be kind of simple?

But... I am not a fan of this particular safety-mod...

Most of the mods mentioned here (if not all) causes the brake light to turn on in case of deceleration. Unless you do perfect shifts everytime you might end up having the brake light flashing everytime you pull the clutch while shifting up in gears (acceleration).
Especially at high speed you easily drop down several km/h if you for example shift up from 5th to 6th (no one does perfect shifts everytime - if a such a thing as perfect exists?)... this brake light flashing can cause others vehicles to near full stop a couple of miles behind you... that's how it works.

 

[Kazza]

My opinion - a brake light for this is a waste of time and $.

Just lightly tap your brake when you start to decelerate - it's what I do. You don't have to put pressure on your brake enough for it to engage, just enough for the light to come on.

Cheaper and easier than your mod....



BTW, +1 on the trunk/tail bag monkey throwing 5h1t at the cars behind when you're slowing down :rof:

 

[04fizzer]

I just installed this over the weekend. Takes about 15 minutes if you know which wire to cut. Had to come to our forum to find out. Cliff somewhere described which wire was which. If you do get this, cut the yellow wire.

Works well as far as I can tell. If you have a LED tail light, make sure you get he XP version.

I went through two of those. The first one died within about a month and they sent me a new one. The second died and it went in the trash.

 

[Randomchaos]

I really like this idea. I have always noticed, and complained, about other bikers who like to down shift before coming to a stop, and never even hit their brakes until they are coming to a complete stop. Its honestly difficult to tell if a motorcycle is slowing, and how quickly, when you are behind it at normal, safe, following distance. The brake light really helps alot.

If you do develop a device, and it works well, patent it! Then go to bike manufacturers and sell it .

A little idea here too, maybe incorporate a switch into the clutch? That way you could keep the system from lighting up the brake, unless you are hitting them, while the clutch is disengaged. Thoughts? Might help alleviate it turning on during shifts.

 

[2006_FZ6]

I went through two of those. The first one died within about a month and they sent me a new one. The second died and it went in the trash.

Dang, that just is not right. :Flip: I hope it lasts a little while!

 

[FinalImpact]

I really like this idea. I have always noticed, and complained, about other bikers who like to down shift before coming to a stop, and never even hit their brakes until they are coming to a complete stop. Its honestly difficult to tell if a motorcycle is slowing, and how quickly, when you are behind it at normal, safe, following distance. The brake light really helps alot.

If you do develop a device, and it works well, patent it! Then go to bike manufacturers and sell it .

A little idea here too, maybe incorporate a switch into the clutch? That way you could keep the system from lighting up the brake, unless you are hitting them, while the clutch is disengaged. Thoughts? Might help alleviate it turning on during shifts.

I agree many riders engine brake excessively giving others no warning. I adjusted my rear brake so I can tap it for lights but no brake actuation.

Testing is needed and I haven't had enough "good days" to devote to this when serious raiding is needed for my sanity! But here are the basic inputs I think it should have.


CONDITIONS:
Brakes applied - brake light ON
At idle; engine vacuum = mid to hi, NO brake light
Under acceleration; engine vacuum = low, NO brake light
Cruising /coasting; engine vacuum = mid to hi, NO brake light
Downshift deceleration; engine vacuum = very hi, Brake light active!

Clutch doesn't matter, if rapidly downshifting the brake light may go off momentarily while the clutch is pulled in to grab the next gear.

 

[philosopheriam]

My opinion - a brake light for this is a waste of time and $.

Just lightly tap your brake when you start to decelerate - it's what I do. You don't have to put pressure on your brake enough for it to engage, just enough for the light to come on.

Cheaper and easier than your mod....



BTW, +1 on the trunk/tail bag monkey throwing 5h1t at the cars behind when you're slowing down :rof:

Amen brother!

 

[Kazza]

Amen brother!

Um, that would be "sister".......

 

[philosopheriam]

Um, that would be "sister".......

Amen sister!

 

[FinalImpact]

Possibly a 3rd brake light switch at either the handlebar or engine end of the throttle cable, so that when throttle is zero the brake light turns on! This has to be kind of simple?

But... I am not a fan of this particular safety-mod...

Most of the mods mentioned here (if not all) causes the brake light to turn on in case of deceleration. Unless you do perfect shifts everytime you might end up having the brake light flashing everytime you pull the clutch while shifting up in gears (acceleration).
Especially at high speed you easily drop down several km/h if you for example shift up from 5th to 6th (no one does perfect shifts everytime - if a such a thing as perfect exists?)... this brake light flashing can cause others vehicles to near full stop a couple of miles behind you... that's how it works.

You were spot on this comment! When measuring the "ported vacuum" it does indeed jump up during UPSHIFTs. That doesn't mean the finished device will will trigger the brake lights.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I take it you've still been tinkering with this then? Any updates?

 

[FinalImpact]

MONTHS later I hook up a vacuum gauge to the ported engine vacuum. Ported meaning "after the throttle plates" so between the TB & intake valves. Specifically I placed a "T" into the engines vacuum sensor. See photo below, its the sensor in the lower right hand corner.

Under basic cruise it runs around 15 ~ 16 inHg. So 3rd <-> 6th is about the same on flat ground maintaining constant speed. As expected; during quick successive down shifts it exceeds >25 inHg. Sometimes up to 29" during heavy deceleration. It also blips above >25 inHg during up shifts but just briefly.

There were momentary blips into the range we wished to use as a trigger for braking which should NOT cause an instant trigger light. So the finished device either needs more inputs to be useful or a delay. Roughly speaking a 1/2 second delay OR LESS would likely weed out the false Positives. So the question is; is that of any value safety wise?

My observation was this: It appears that a time constant could be used to add a delay or a metered orifice between the ported vacuum and the switch would also prevent the switch from seeing HIGH vacuum if the dwell time does not meet the criteria. In short we need a switch that adjust from 24 ~ 28 inHg. Also - during long downhill stretches the vacuum remained >25 inHg for sustained periods of time so this could be helpful and you won't have to ride the brake to warn others. . .