What is the best Oil.

[The Rayman]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

No, I didn't see them actually install the Motul 3000, and the service manager assured me that Motul 3000 was synthetic oil, which is what I requested. You do raise a good point, however. The dealership where I purchased my bike was very sloppy with its PDI (front left brake caliper fell off ), and yes, there is the possibility that my FZ6 didn't get Motul at all. I do have confidence in Motul, as it's also recommended as a "specialty" oil by our company for our cars.

The service manager lied to you. Motul 3000 is not synthetic. 3000 is dino, 5100 is semi, and 300 is syn. Given this along with the caliper issue I would not trust this dealer now.

 

[Sawblade]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I put Rotella Synthetic in my crankcase right before I made the trip from Texas. (except I couldn't find anything but a fram filter, eww) I immediately noticed it idled smoother and clunked a little less between gears. On the whole 1750 mile trip, I think my fan came on once when I was sitting at a red light on fresh blacktop and the temp stayed at 2 bars unless it was over 90F. I think I'll keep using the Rotella.

 

[OhSixFZ6]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

Rotella synthetic is 16 dollars a gallon my clutch doesn't slip and no longer do my most of my gear changes clunk. In fact switching to rotella was the most significant change I have ever felt on any vehicle. And I was using 12dollar motul myself.

I do agree Rotella synthetic with the purolator pro does win.

YIKES!! $16 a gallon?! I can get it for $9.98 down here!!! I'll ship you some!!:rockon:

 

[DefyInertia]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I run Rotella T in my FZ6 like many many many others do.

I buy it at the cheapest place I know of that sells it and don't feel bad about doing so (there is a great method man quote that fits here but I'll refrain).

As for wanting to go to a local dealer, no thanks. The things those people say to me usually gets my blood pressure up. Now a performance shop, ok, but the ones I know of are usually sponsored by one oil or another and only sell theirs...I'll take my Rotella T thank you.

 

[The Rayman]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

.

As for wanting to go to a local dealer, no thanks. The things those people say to me usually gets my blood pressure up. Now a performance shop, ok, but the ones I know of are usually sponsored by one oil or another and only sell theirs...I'll take my Rotella T thank you.

Same here. There are dealers around here that I refuse to go into because NO ONE in there has a clue. Every time I ask for something, they have never heard of it and treat me as if I'm dumb for wanting it... I make most purchases online these days.

 

[Tailgate]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I like Hellgate's humor. These oil threads have been dug up, buried, exhumed, re-buried, and re-everythinged. I'm currently running the expensive Mobil 1synthetic 10-40 4 stroke stuff. I notice that this oil is JASO certified; the certification label is right there on the backside of the beautiful and attractive container. Very, very nice packaging and a designer paint job on the quart jug container. I find it curious that Shell Rotella (either the petroleum or synthetic) lacks the JASO certification label on the backside. Yeah, I read the corporate correspondence letter regarding this business but still, why doesn't Shell cite JASO certification on the petroleum version? Something's not right with that. Funny that somebody from Shell writes that it does meet JASO but then, on the container/jug it's not cited. Huh? I understand the Shell Rotella synthetic has a wee bit higher ash content acceptable for JASO standards. I might try the Shell Rotella 5-40 synthetic in the future. Why isn't anybody discussing beer standards? Is not this more important? Stop new oil threads! Admin should institute an oil embargo. All that these oil threads do now is re-hash the same stuff. I think some of our FZ6-Forum Shell Rotella posters are getting regular checks in the mail from Shell or something.

 

[wolfc70]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

This is the write up on Mobile 1 from their site.



Why do you think Mobil 1 is not synthetic?

There had been this rumor floating around for some time. I hope this will clarify on what actually happened. First some basics on synthetic oils.

Group III- Hyrdrocracked mineral oil. Carbon chains are made longer and more irregular to prevent them from aligning and thickening.

Group IV- Poly alpha olefin base stock. Was the standard for years until Grp III oils started showing up.

Group V- Ester based oils. These were the first synthetics and were the cause of all of the synthetic oil "myths". Esters work great, but interacted with the seals in the engine and caused them to swell. When people switched back to conventional oils, everything leaked oil. Since the early days esters have been improved upon. The seal swelling has been solved and continue to be front runner on technology. Now some are considered "green" oils as they are made from vegetable esters, RLI BioSyn is one.


When Mobil changed the formula a few years ago, they went from a pure grp IV PAO oil(SuperSyn), to a grp III/IV blend(TriSyn). So some people started the rumor that M1 is not a true synthetic. Never mind that Castrol Syntec was the first to go to a grp III oil.

So what does this all mean? Nothing really, grp III oils perform just as good as the PAO oils and are cheaper to manufacture. Some people still want PAO oils, but in the US, few are around. Amsoil ASL, SSO, are a few that still full PAO based. German Castrol is another.

So I think that M1 is a fine oil and will work in many applications. The only M1 oil I had so so results with was the European formula 0w-40. It sheared down to a 20wt oil pretty quickly in turbocharged engines. So run M1 with confidence!

 

[OneTrack]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

The service manager lied to you. Motul 3000 is not synthetic. 3000 is dino, 5100 is semi, and 300 is syn. Given this along with the caliper issue I would not trust this dealer now.

Oh, I was aware that the Service Manager was lying....well, not so much lying as just telling me what he thought I wanted to hear. He really didn't have a clue and is long gone from that dealership since it changed hands. (for the better).
I don't trust the dealership at all...I will buy parts and accessories there, but that's it. I wouldn't buy another bike from them or trust them with my bike again in their service department.

 

[OneTrack]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I put Rotella Synthetic in my crankcase right before I made the trip from Texas. (except I couldn't find anything but a fram filter, eww) I immediately noticed it idled smoother and clunked a little less between gears. On the whole 1750 mile trip, I think my fan came on once when I was sitting at a red light on fresh blacktop and the temp stayed at 2 bars unless it was over 90F. I think I'll keep using the Rotella.

I'm experiencing exactly the same improvements. The clutch is oh-so-smooth and it shifts beautifully. The idle is smoother and the temp gauge reads a full bar lower than before when the Amsoil was installed. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[OneTrack]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I like Hellgate's humor. These oil threads have been dug up, buried, exhumed, re-buried, and re-everythinged. I'm currently running the expensive Mobil 1synthetic 10-40 4 stroke stuff. I notice that this oil is JASO certified; the certification label is right there on the backside of the beautiful and attractive container. Very, very nice packaging and a designer paint job on the quart jug container. I find it curious that Shell Rotella (either the petroleum or synthetic) lacks the JASO certification label on the backside. Yeah, I read the corporate correspondence letter regarding this business but still, why doesn't Shell cite JASO certification on the petroleum version? Something's not right with that. Funny that somebody from Shell writes that it does meet JASO but then, on the container/jug it's not cited. Huh? I understand the Shell Rotella synthetic has a wee bit higher ash content acceptable for JASO standards. I might try the Shell Rotella 5-40 synthetic in the future. Why isn't anybody discussing beer standards? Is not this more important? Stop new oil threads! Admin should institute an oil embargo. All that these oil threads do now is re-hash the same stuff. I think some of our FZ6-Forum Shell Rotella posters are getting regular checks in the mail from Shell or something.

Humbug. You're just sore because I tried Rotella T 5w40 before you did :Flip:.

:beer: I agree....Now there's a topic we should be discussing... :thumbup:

 

[Hellgate]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

There had been this rumor floating around for some time. I hope this will clarify on what actually happened. First some basics on synthetic oils.

Group III- Hyrdrocracked mineral oil. Carbon chains are made longer and more irregular to prevent them from aligning and thickening.

Group IV- Poly alpha olefin base stock. Was the standard for years until Grp III oils started showing up.

Group V- Ester based oils. These were the first synthetics and were the cause of all of the synthetic oil "myths". Esters work great, but interacted with the seals in the engine and caused them to swell. When people switched back to conventional oils, everything leaked oil. Since the early days esters have been improved upon. The seal swelling has been solved and continue to be front runner on technology. Now some are considered "green" oils as they are made from vegetable esters, RLI BioSyn is one.


When Mobil changed the formula a few years ago, they went from a pure grp IV PAO oil(SuperSyn), to a grp III/IV blend(TriSyn). So some people started the rumor that M1 is not a true synthetic. Never mind that Castrol Syntec was the first to go to a grp III oil.

So what does this all mean? Nothing really, grp III oils perform just as good as the PAO oils and are cheaper to manufacture. Some people still want PAO oils, but in the US, few are around. Amsoil ASL, SSO, are a few that still full PAO based. German Castrol is another.

So I think that M1 is a fine oil and will work in many applications. The only M1 oil I had so so results with was the European formula 0w-40. It sheared down to a 20wt oil pretty quickly in turbocharged engines. So run M1 with confidence!

Holy carp (yes carp)!!! Do you have a layman's guide to this stuff. I just look for oil in the correct weight. I think my head is going to explode.

 

[BranNwebster]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

YIKES!! $16 a gallon?! I can get it for $9.98 down here!!! I'll ship you some!!:rockon:[/QUOTE


16 bucks is the cheapest I've ever seen. Next time I head south I'll check it out.

Are you sure it wasn't dino that was 10 dollars?

 

[OhSixFZ6]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

YIKES!! $16 a gallon?! I can get it for $9.98 down here!!! I'll ship you some!!:rockon:[/QUOTE


16 bucks is the cheapest I've ever seen. Next time I head south I'll check it out.

Are you sure it wasn't dino that was 10 dollars?

Positive! I even double checked because I was also like WTF??? Im gonna go to wally world again today to triple check it tonight.

 

[rvbiker]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

Rotella is a good oil certainly better than other petroleum based oils but what distinguishes synthetic oils from petroleum oils is in the basestock. Synthetics use a PAO, diesters and polyesters for their basestock. Other manufacturers use a highly refined, almost pure petroleum basestock, that when finished, bares little resemblance to its petroleum beginning. So to call it a petroleum product would be unfair so they are allowed to call their product synthetic. These products are not all like the true synthetics. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Honda and selling the Honda as a Ferrari. The Honda goes fast but it just doesn’t handle like the real thing.

This is the situation you have between Rotella and Mobil 1 and Amsol. The latter two are pure synthetic Rotella is the Honda. Ask youself how can Rotella sell for $13.00 a gallon and Mobil 1 for $8.99 a quart and both be a true synthetic. The problem I have is when I buy a synthetic I want the real deal.

Again, I think Rotella is a fine product and given a choice between Yamalube and Rotella you can’t go wrong with Rotella but I think Shell and other companies that use the same process are being just a little deceptive. They should be labeled pseudo-synthetic.

For your consideration, below is the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Rotella.

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Review Date: 01/03/2006


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION 1 PRODUCT AND COMPANY IDENTIFICATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRODUCT: ROTELLA® T Synthetic SAE 5W-40

MSDS NUMBER: 400792E - 1
PRODUCT CODE(S): 5062054, 5068680, 54300, 5430000001

MANUFACTURER ADDRESS:
SOPUS Products, P.O. Box 4427, Houston, TX. 77210-4427

TELEPHONE NUMBERS
Spill Information: (877) 242-7400
Health Information: (877) 504-9351
MSDS Assistance Number: (877) 276-7285


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SECTION 2 PRODUCT/INGREDIENTS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAS# CONCENTRATION INGREDIENTS
Synthetic Motor Oil
Mixture 90 - 98.99 %volume Highly refined petroleum oils
Mixture 1 - 4.99 %volume Proprietary additives
Proprietary 1 - 4.99 %volume Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate

 

[DefyInertia]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

Interesting....pseudo-synthetic FTW!!!! My bike will likely be totalled or sold before oil related wear becomes even remotely an issue. Am I wrong?

 

[The Rayman]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

My bike will likely be totalled or sold before oil related wear becomes even remotely an issue. Am I wrong?

Nope. You are 100% right.

 

[wolfc70]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

Rotella is a good oil certainly better than other petroleum based oils but what distinguishes synthetic oils from petroleum oils is in the basestock. Synthetics use a PAO, diesters and polyesters for their basestock. Other manufacturers use a highly refined, almost pure petroleum basestock, that when finished, bares little resemblance to its petroleum beginning. So to call it a petroleum product would be unfair so they are allowed to call their product synthetic. These products are not all like the true synthetics. It would be like putting a Ferrari engine in a Honda and selling the Honda as a Ferrari. The Honda goes fast but it just doesn’t handle like the real thing.

This is the situation you have between Rotella and Mobil 1 and Amsol. The latter two are pure synthetic Rotella is the Honda. Ask youself how can Rotella sell for $13.00 a gallon and Mobil 1 for $8.99 a quart and both be a true synthetic. The problem I have is when I buy a synthetic I want the real deal.

Again, I think Rotella is a fine product and given a choice between Yamalube and Rotella you can’t go wrong with Rotella but I think Shell and other companies that use the same process are being just a little deceptive. They should be labeled pseudo-synthetic.

Well except for certain Amsoil (AS,SSO series) products, almost all oil you buy at a store are from petroleum base stocks. Hydrocracking uses a bi functional catalyst to break and rearrange hydrocarbon chains. Olefin can then be added to the base stock to help improve cold pump ability. So almost all of the synthetic seen on shelves is a Grp III oil.

Shell will never market the Rotella T line outside of the trucking industry. So for them to pay to submit oil to JASO to get tested to get the seal is just too expensive for the small motorcycle market. It meets the spec, but is not JASO tested or certified. Just like an oil to be VW 502.00 approved a manufacturer has to pay VW to test and approve the oil.

 

[rvbiker]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

DefyInertia: I don’t think you are wrong. But I think you can say the same thing about using reprocessed oil if you change your oil often enough. The point is there are people who want to use the best product for their bike they can and a pure synthetic oil will out perform one that isn’t.

I wasn’t trying to put Rotella down, as I said in my post I think it is a good oil and I wasn’t trying to put down those who use it. But the OP’s point of his post was “The debate is over. Rotella T wins” In my opinion it does not and I wanted to back up my opinion with facts. If you want the benefits of a pure synthetic oil don’t buy Rotella.

 

[gt89stang393]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

I have used the Rotella T synthetic since I first changed the oil in this thing at 700 miles. The oil works fine, the bike runs smoother, and the clutch works perfectly. I rarely follow manufacture recommended oil weights. Besides, I always use an additive in my cars with the engine oil so it changes the weight anyway.

You can't find an oil under 15w-40 nowadays that doesn't have that energy star. In fact my cousin and uncle need to run 20w-50 in their racecars because they have solid flat tappet camshafts and cannot have the energy star rating on the oils!

Like DefyInertia said, the bike will be totalled or sold before engine wear becomes an issue anyway.

 

[greenthumb]

Re: The debate is over. Rotella T wins!

...... along with a PureOne oil filter......

where did you manage to find one of these? i can find them anywhere in the interior.

also, how much are you paying for the oil? the only place i could find it was at the cat dealership, where i had a choice of a 200L drum, or a case of 4, 1gal jugs for $120 +tax.
sucks to be canadian, especially when the dollar is par and i still pay double.