Is my insurance playing games?

[Wavex]

I have a question that I am hoping some of you will be able to answer...

After my accident, I was told that I should not let the insurance companies dick me around... a couple of ppl mentioned that I should be "made whole", or in other words I should get enough money to allow me to buy a used '06 FZ6 (with similar amount of miles), plus all my mods, and replacement gear.

So based on that, I created a list of my expectations, and it looks like this (without the details):
- Used '06 FZ6 with similar amount of miles in SoCal: $5250.00 (Blue Book + Cycletrader)

- Mods: $3000.00 (got all receipts)

- Gear: $800.00

TOTAL: $9050.00

The weird thing about getting reimbursed is that I can ask both my insurance (Pacific Specialty Insurance), and the other party's insurance (State Farm) to give me an offer for property damage... so I am currently expecting an offer from each of them, and will obviously pick the highest one... that process in itself sounds ridiculous, but that`s how it works apparently.

About a week ago, after the police report finally got released, my insurance informs me that if I want them to reimburse me, I`d have to pay the deductible (which I`d get back later on, when my insurance gets paid by State Farm), and that they won`t cover "anything that is not mounted on the bike" (helmet, leather jacket...), as well as custom paint... basically I`d have to go to State Farm for these items anyway... based on that they recommended that I go to State Farm directly to get my money for everything.

Fine.

So I contact State Farm, who btw treated me much better then my own insurance, and they get me an estimate within 2 days for the bike alone (no mods or gear yet), and it looks good, i.e. $5350.00. The guy mentions that he can cut me a check for that amount NOW, and send me another check later for the mods and gear (once they complete their estimation). Fair enough I think to myself... but I tell the guy I can wait another day or two if he thinks he will get the estimate for the mods and gear in that timeframe... so right now we`re waiting. The guy calls me everyday to keep me updated, and is really nice to talk to.

On the other hand, my insurance keeps playing games and they tell me that I will not get the $9000 I am asking for because their estimate is based on fair market value, not based on trying to "make me whole" again. So my insurance tells me I should be getting only 15-25% of the total value of my mods!!!
I have not received anything from my own insurance yet, and if I don`t call them, I never hear from them... I am eager to see their offer, because if it`s lower than the State Farm proposal, I am going to raise hell with my own insurance... either way though, they can be sure they won`t have me as a customer anymore after this is over.

Anyway, sorry for the long boring story... my question is this: do I really have grounds to ask for the $9k? Is it really their obligation to reimburse me the amount I put into the bike (so I could virtually replace it with another one exactly like it), or is it normal if they quote me say $6k only (and in this case I basically lost $3k)?

To me, that kid in her Mercedes broke the law and almost killed me... the least I could expect is to get reimbursed a fair amount that should allow me to get back to where I was before the accident... am I wrong?

 

[wrightme43]

You are right, but insurance companies suck. StateFarm gets all my business, they are the least of the bad in the industry as I understand it.

You should recieve replacement for all of your gear, mods, and bike.
Will you? I dont know. If they can get out of it, they will.

 

[4fun]

Your insurance company sucks, thats no way to treat a client:spank:, they do it becuase the majority of people won't speak up and take what they say as gospel. Imagine how much they avoid paying out by being jerks.

I currently dealing with progressive on my accident and they have been extremely nice and have called me a couple of times to find out information. Since we have not talked dollars yet, I can not judge them on that just yet.

I just dropped my bike at the shop today and they will be there tomorrow to look at it and create an estimate along with the shop.

I let you knoe how I make out.

 

[a_sick1]

if i were you, i would take whatever State Farm offers you, and then ask for the rest from your insurance company....
its pretty sad if her insurance will pay you more than your own company will.

you should at least get back whatever you lost due to her mistake...

best of luck to you.

 

[Cuba]

The fact that they are offering you more than your own blue book estimate is amazing in itself- great news. The problem with the mods is that they are used, and the price of used can vary greatly. Same with your gear- there is no standard valuation for these items like blue book. All things considered you're doing better than I would have expected so far. Things like new paint- no way. That is like saying I had an $800 tune up a few months back so pay for that too. I would take the $5350 now and fight them for every cent of the rest and hope to get half of the replacement value. Good luck man, I hope it works out.

 

[bcityroller]

Sounds to me like you've concluded rightly that your insurance company sucks. Based on this I would attempt to work through state farm as much as possible b/c it's obvious that since it was the other party's fault your insurance company will not be paying anything in the end (for example making you pay deductible and then reimburse you when state farm pays them). You'll be much better off negotiating for yourself with state farm than having them act on your behalf.

I think your expectation to be made whole again is reasonable but within certain bounds - you should be in the same place after the accident you were before. What that means is that you might (likely?) have to settle for a portion of the new value of your gear and mods since they were not brand new (I assume) - analagous to prorating tires under a tire warranty. It also seems likely that you would have to go back and forth with State Farm a few times to accomplish this so your ability to wait them out and offer evidence of value (which it seems like you have) will likely impact your final number.

My guess is you won't end up getting 9k but you can reasonably argue for more than the bike.

 

[oldtimer]

The insurance companies I've spoken to for motorcycle insurance indicate replacement of the bike is based on Actual Cash Value (aka, KBB or a depreciated value). If you also paid coverage for "accessories" (i.e. saddle bags, modifications, etc), if the items needed replacing, you would get its depreciated value.

If you wanted real replacement cost (as in they pay you what it would cost brand new), you would know because your insurance premiums would be substantially higher (if it's even offered at all).

I'm not sure if gear is included in the "accessories" coverage but I will now definitely try to find out.

 

[FZ1inNH]

With the other company at fault, I wouldn't even be talking to my own company David. They're best left out of it until the time comes that you, for whatever reason, do not get satisfactory results from her company.

They are correct when they say you will have to pay their deductible and expect that back from State Farm in the end. That is within their rights and all ofthem will tell you the same.

Be happy it is State Farm on the other end! They, when their client is at fault, are one of the best at making things right. I was rear-ended in my Tacoma. The adjuster came out and asked some casula questions about injury, Doctor, hospital, etc... I told him I wasn't hurt and not interested in involving a Doc or hospital since the hit wasn't that bad. So, he set about collecting data from the truck and ticking off items from the fiche on his laptop. At the end, he printed me a quote for just shy of $3,000 and I was shocked! I saw less than $1000 in damage. I got the check two days later, bought a NIB rear bumper off a dealer on Ebay for $308 shipped and put it on myself after straightening out some other items. The rest of the money went to the '08 FZ6 along with the money from the sale of the '05 FZ6, hence walking with a clear title on a new bike. Now, I didn't ASK for anything, I did not point out anything other than I got hit in the rear and pushed into a truck in front of me. That's all I stated. He took it upon himself to include all the other stuff. I think it was more like a "Thanks for not suing the CRAP out of my client!" payout then an actual fix. Either way, I was happy and they were happy to be done with me.

Just curious but why would you want anything from your own company when she was at fault and cited on the scene? What clause to they have for mods? We have to pay extra on our policy for anything over $500 for mods and prove them with pics and receipts. Without this, it's $500 and they're done with it.

Stick it out with State Farm and you'll come a lot closer to your goal than working with your own company. Good luck David!

 

[Wavex]

Thanks guys!

Your insurance company sucks, thats no way to treat a client:spank:, they do it becuase the majority of people won't speak up and take what they say as gospel. Imagine how much they avoid paying out by being jerks.

I currently dealing with progressive on my accident and they have been extremely nice and have called me a couple of times to find out information. Since we have not talked dollars yet, I can not judge them on that just yet.

I just dropped my bike at the shop today and they will be there tomorrow to look at it and create an estimate along with the shop.

I let you knoe how I make out.

My insurance was OK when I totalled my bike a couple of years ago... I crashed all on my own and had no coverage for aftermarket parts, so I just took their offer for the value of a used '06... it was a reasonable offer too, so I was happy.
In this case though, it's a bit different, and they`re clearly trying to pay as little as possible, even though I now have a $2k aftermarket coverage... they are still saying that even though I show $3k of mods, I may only get $500 for them... I want my $2k!!!

 

[Wavex]

The fact that they are offering you more than your own blue book estimate is amazing in itself- great news. The problem with the mods is that they are used, and the price of used can vary greatly. Same with your gear- there is no standard valuation for these items like blue book. All things considered you're doing better than I would have expected so far. Things like new paint- no way. That is like saying I had an $800 tune up a few months back so pay for that too. I would take the $5350 now and fight them for every cent of the rest and hope to get half of the replacement value. Good luck man, I hope it works out.

That is exactly how I saw the situation a few days ago... get about 50% for the mods since they are used... it made sense to me, but that was before a friend of mine made me realize that because the other party took full responsibility for the accident, I should expect enough $$ to enable me to buy a used '06 bike, and make it the same as it was before the accident. That approach made sense to me too lol... it actually made more sense!

Now I am being told I may only get 15% of the value of the mods... wtf?

 

[Wavex]

Sounds to me like you've concluded rightly that your insurance company sucks. Based on this I would attempt to work through state farm as much as possible b/c it's obvious that since it was the other party's fault your insurance company will not be paying anything in the end (for example making you pay deductible and then reimburse you when state farm pays them). You'll be much better off negotiating for yourself with state farm than having them act on your behalf.

I think your expectation to be made whole again is reasonable but within certain bounds - you should be in the same place after the accident you were before. What that means is that you might (likely?) have to settle for a portion of the new value of your gear and mods since they were not brand new (I assume) - analagous to prorating tires under a tire warranty. It also seems likely that you would have to go back and forth with State Farm a few times to accomplish this so your ability to wait them out and offer evidence of value (which it seems like you have) will likely impact your final number.

My guess is you won't end up getting 9k but you can reasonably argue for more than the bike.

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense... I am now trying to figure out what I should accept and what I should refuse... $5350 for the bike itself is fine... now should I settle if they offer 50% of the value of my mods? what if it`s 25% only?
Sounds to me that no matter what I do, I will never be able to re-build my bike to where it was before with the money I am going to get (this is high pathetically, since I don`t plan on doing that anyway, but I mention that for the sake of the argument), which is still bothering me a little bit

Offering me fair market value doesn`t mean it`s fair at all in my case... because almost none of my mods can be bought used... and if I had to buy them again today, they would cost me more than when the first time since the EURO-USD exchange rate is so bad right now... and this btw doesn`t include any labor $$$ at all...

Another few things to consider:
- the bike finished in the top 10 of a national contest organized by Yamaha (still on their website btw... State Farm was very interested to see the pic on the Yamaha website, whereas my own company said they didn`t care about that).
- I had gotten a $10k offer for that bike, which I refused
- the bike was recently featured in the first issue of Custom Fighters Magazine (real life magazine)


So it`s a tough choice... I think I`ll take anything above $8k... I think that would be reasonable....

 

[Wavex]

With the other company at fault, I wouldn't even be talking to my own company David. They're best left out of it until the time comes that you, for whatever reason, do not get satisfactory results from her company.

They are correct when they say you will have to pay their deductible and expect that back from State Farm in the end. That is within their rights and all ofthem will tell you the same.

Be happy it is State Farm on the other end! They, when their client is at fault, are one of the best at making things right. I was rear-ended in my Tacoma. The adjuster came out and asked some casula questions about injury, Doctor, hospital, etc... I told him I wasn't hurt and not interested in involving a Doc or hospital since the hit wasn't that bad. So, he set about collecting data from the truck and ticking off items from the fiche on his laptop. At the end, he printed me a quote for just shy of $3,000 and I was shocked! I saw less than $1000 in damage. I got the check two days later, bought a NIB rear bumper off a dealer on Ebay for $308 shipped and put it on myself after straightening out some other items. The rest of the money went to the '08 FZ6 along with the money from the sale of the '05 FZ6, hence walking with a clear title on a new bike. Now, I didn't ASK for anything, I did not point out anything other than I got hit in the rear and pushed into a truck in front of me. That's all I stated. He took it upon himself to include all the other stuff. I think it was more like a "Thanks for not suing the CRAP out of my client!" payout then an actual fix. Either way, I was happy and they were happy to be done with me.

Just curious but why would you want anything from your own company when she was at fault and cited on the scene? What clause to they have for mods? We have to pay extra on our policy for anything over $500 for mods and prove them with pics and receipts. Without this, it's $500 and they're done with it.

Stick it out with State Farm and you'll come a lot closer to your goal than working with your own company. Good luck David!

Thanks Eric! I have high hopes for State Farm

I was told by State Farm and my lawyer, that by law, I am entitled to ask for an estimate from both my insurance and the other insurance... and based on the offers, I can pick the one I want... yes, it sounds ridiculous, but that`s how it is... plus my lawyer told me that your own insurance usually pays out WAY quicker than the other insurance, which are usually not in a hurry to pay someone. So I started the process on both sides...

 

[FZ1inNH]

That is VERY good news that they were interested in the Yamaha site. Don't get your hopes up but they now KNOW your interest in the bike was far more than simple transportation. My guess is they will make it right for you with a little pushing from you. I think you'll do well!

 

[Raid The Revenge]

To me, that kid in her Mercedes broke the law and almost killed me... the least I could expect is to get reimbursed a fair amount that should allow me to get back to where I was before the accident... am I wrong?
-Wavex

The government has tried very hard to prevent people from going to court. Since the population is steadily increasing, there are more insurance options available for people to select, so fewer excuses end up in court. If you get into a vehicular accident (as Wavex did), the court system will apply the activated insurance options of both parties. Auto insurance has been designed to cover virtually all circumstances so that the court system won’t need to get involved. That’s why auto insurance has become so expensive.

Here’s some insurance options available:

SECTION A – Third Party Liability

Legally required. Covers all bodily injury or death of any one or more persons or damage to other property regardless of the number of claims arising from any one accident.

EX: You crash into a guardrail. Liability insurance covers the damages dealt to the guardrail, all costs to pay the government to cleanup your destroyed vehicle and finally your related medical bills.

Default Limit: $1,000,000 US. (Higher premiums means higher limits)

SECTION B – Uninsured/Underinsured Coverage

Legally required, depending on State/Province/Country Laws. Provides coverage if another at-fault party doesn’t have enough insurance or none at all.

EX: Your car is parked in a shopping center. An angry driver takes their car and drives it into yours. Since they don’t have insurance to pay for the damages, your own policy will do so instead.

SECTION C – Loss of Vehicle and Damages

Provides several options, each pertaining to a specific peril toward the insured vehicle. Some options include:

Collision – Provides coverage toward the insured vehicle, should it be involved in an accident, based on fair market value.

Comprehensive – Includes several perils that aren’t considered collisions. Fire, theft, attempted theft, vandalism, weather, animals…these are types of comprehensive perils.

Specified Perils – Includes specifically chosen perils that aren’t considered collisions. Fire only, theft only, vandalism only, weather only, animals only…these are types of specific perils that are individually selected.

All Perils – Includes collision, comprehensive and specified perils.

NOTE: The perils covered under comprehensive insurance and specified insurance are different, depending on the insurance company.

BUYING INSURANCE

Insurance rates are typically calculated in monthly rates. The total amount will depend on several factors including gender, age, driving history, marital status, vehicle status, alarm systems, parking garages, etc. Insurance rates can be lowered by adding a deductable; a fixed cost that must be paid in order to activate any kind of insurance. By raising the deductable, insurance rates will lower, but activation-costs will be higher. Most deductibles are fixed at $1000 US, but it changes with each policy or company.

CLAUD’S ADVICE

-Set your deductable to the max.
-Set your default limit to $2,000,000 US.
-Buy either ALL PERILS or COLLISION. There are many ways for insurance companies to avoid payments toward SPECIFIED PERILS. Comprehensive perils are less likely than a collision.
-File all your previous insurance policies. Some insurance companies will grant discounts that are based on your history with previous companies.
-Theft and vandalism are two separate policies under specified perils. If your vehicle is stolen but later returned by the police, your new situation is considered to be an act of vandalism. This is why specified perils aren’t recommended.
-Vehicle mods/upgrades are listed as being up to 25% of their original worth for “fair market value.” Most of the time, they’re not even covered under the policies.
-Driving without insurance is a serious offence! It can lead to fines above $4000 and other serious penalties.
-Insurance companies can refuse certain claims if the insured party is proven to be entirely at fault.

EX: You drive your vehicle over ice and there is an accident. If your vehicle isn’t equipped with winter tires, the insurance company has every right to deny you a claim.

 

[CrazyBiker]

It seems like your insurance co. is being an ass since it is the 2nd time your bike is totalled.

 

[Wavex]

wow that guy at State Farm was just the best!

I just got off the phone with him and here is what happened:

Drew: I finally got your offer!
Me: Nice! How does it look?
Drew: Well... I am not sure!
Me: OK give it to me....
Drew: Here is the break down:
- $7100 for the bike + mods
- $500 of Sales Tax
- $75 for Registration
- $925 for all my gear (he just took my number, covering the helmet, jacket, shirt and shoes).
Total: $8600.00

Me: Well, I had told myself that I`d accept the offer for anything more than $8500, so I guess you guys were right on target!
Drew: Good! I am happy that you`re reasonably happy with this offer.
Me: Let me double check a couple of things and I`ll call you back.
Drew: Ok, if you accept the offer, please just have your insurance release the bike to State Farm, and let me know... we`ll have your check ready for pickup at your local State Farm office (a block from my house) by tomorrow. All you got to do is drop your pink slip there and you`re done.

WOW! I had to tell the guy how much I appreciated his support and great cooperation... I told him my own insurance sucks compared to the service I got through him...

Something that really surprises me: they did not ask for one single receipt! Pretty good.... I am going to have to ask them for an insurance quote as well... see how they compare to AAA.

Thanks all for the feedback above...

Buell, here I come :rockon::cheer::rockon::cheer:

 

[bertmoog]

I currently have State Farm and they have been great so far. I'm paying $230 a year (28, male), what are you paying with your current policy? Whenever I have signed up for insurance on vehicle they always want me to list the modifications, presumably so they can charge me more in case I do wreck and want reimbursed for that cost as well. Sounds like you got a what you were looking for though, congratulations! :rockon:

 

[bcityroller]

Congrats - that sounds like a fantastic offer from them and a lot less negotiating than I expected you'd have to go through.

 

[Wavex]

I currently have State Farm and they have been great so far. I'm paying $230 a year (28, male), what are you paying with your current policy? Whenever I have signed up for insurance on vehicle they always want me to list the modifications, presumably so they can charge me more in case I do wreck and want reimbursed for that cost as well. Sounds like you got a what you were looking for though, congratulations! :rockon:

Thanks

The last quote I got from State Farm was $4500/year. I was 26yo at the time. I went with my current ****ty insurance because they were about half of what everybody else was quoting me... I was paying $150/month through them this past year.
Now after 3 years, I just got a quote from AAA for $150/month, including my bike, 2 cars, and my house so of course I am switching shortly (after I ask State Farm to quote me again).

FYI, you can`t compare insurance rates between different locations/states... they will charge huge amounts of money for insurance around here (Los Angeles county), especially when you`re a new rider (they did not agree to take my riding history in France into account), and not a US citizen...

 

[Raid The Revenge]

$8600? Sounds right for "fair market value."

If I'm allowed to make a serious recommendation; I'd suggest you consider the 2008 ZX-14. I was pleasantly surprised when I tested that motorcycle! It was the one in with new "special edition" paintjob.

It sounds like a crazy idea, but why are you settling? You're like a hardcore motorcycle enthusiast, so why Buell? I dare you to try the 2008 ZX-14. It sounds more...Wavex.