Build your own Manometer for Throttle Body Sync!

[TownsendsFJR1300]

When I checked, my #1 was at 1/2 out. If you say yours works well at one full turn out, I'll start from there. Thanks for the tip on checking the butterflies - I'll definitely do that and check the screw between the bodies.

Unfortunately, I'm heading out of town tomorrow and won't be able to play with this for a week. I'll try again when I get back and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the great advice!

Definitly go 1 turn out,(I know thats too tight), just look /check at that center screw for now. Unless the screw was definitly messed with, get #1 at one turn out and I'll bet you get a whole lot closer.

As I stated earlier, if that center screw was messed with 1&2 would be close, 3&4 close and you couldn't get the two sets close (which you don't have)

Max limits is 10mms, you should be able to get way closer than that. My Carbmate is calibrated with mm's, so I can see, per mm how close I am to each other (within 3mms across the board)

Good luck, you'll get it!

 

[bob808]

I guess I could build the contraption out of 2 Ts and 2 Ls ? Can't find any F connectors here...

 

[FIZZER6]

I guess I could build the contraption out of 2 Ts and 2 Ls ? Can't find any F connectors here...

That's definitely an option for you. Just be sure the hose connections are good and tight as any leak at all will effect your results.

 

[bob808]

I built it without one way valves and haven't been so successful. 1st tube gets sucked pretty hard and I get bubbles from the other tubes emptying. I put some more oil and just bought the one way valves and will try again tonight.

 

[FinalImpact]

The manual doesn't want # 1 messed with as its the baseline for the Target Air Fuel Ratio (AFR). If moved, you can use a vacuum gauge to get it back to a **near** ideal setting.

By changing the baseline #1 value you can adjust all cylinders to swing the AFR value (Rich or Lean) at idle. The happy spot will be when both the RPM and the manifold vacuum are meet the OEM settings. Hint: Those adjusters are setting how much air each cylinder gets. The fuel is basically a fixed value based upon engine temp and RPM.

Get all ports sync'd (+/-4mmHg of each other) and take note of RPM and manifold vacuum by inserting at "T" gauge at the vacuum sensor (see pic).

• Turn all adjusters in an 1/8 to 1/4 observing the RPM and Vacuum.
• If both increase your getting closer to ideal. Repeat until rpm/vacuum declines.
• If both DECREASE, GO BACK. Open ALL 1/8 to 1/4. If both RPM and Vacuum increase your getting closer to ideal. Repeat until vacuum declines.
• In short, find the balance that achieves smooth high idle (NOT BY MOVING THE THUMB SCREW) and higher vacuum readings. For smooth year round performance, run towards the richer side = lower vacuum ###.

Too rich = lower idle speed, stinky exhaust, but better throttle response (to a point) and less likely to die from decelerating.
IDEAL = Higher vacuum but NOT the highest, Steady RPM. In short - From the HIGHEST Vacuum values, screw them in to richen them 1/4 to 3/8 of a turn.
Too lean = higher idle speed, but may stumble or induce slower throttle response when too far. Dies when coming down from RPM.

ALL Adjusters Turned IN = lower AFR = richer
ALL Adjusters Turned OUT = higher AFR = leaner

Connect a vacuum gauge using a "T" to the sensor shown here in the bottom right w/3 wires coming from it.

This assumes the CO (C01/C02) adjustments are the OEM values set from the factory and a fuel controller is not adding/removing fuel at idle.

EDIT 2015-04-14: Our FSM Does NOT state this but: Idle for FZ6R is supposed to be set at 4.5 to 5.5%Co which equates to an AFR of 12.83 to 12.43:1.
NOTES: Although 14.7:1 AFR is ideal for emission purposes, its too lean to run at reliably throughout all riding conditions - hot/cold, high altitude/low altitude, different fuel blends etc, thus running on the richer side helps the bike run reliably. That said; FZ6R idle at vacuum is even higher than ours running at @32kPa (9.37inHg, 238mmHg) {4.5 - 5.5%Co}. Point; I'd guess our ideal AFR at idle is ~5.6%Co or 12.4:1 AFR.

FZ6 Idling condition S1/S2 models...
Engine idling speed: 1250–1350 r/min
Intake vacuum: 29.0 kPa (8.6 inHg) (218 mmHg)
Water temperature: 95.0–105.0 °C (203.00–221.00 °F)
Oil temperature: 75.0–85.0 °C (167.00–185.00 °F)
Throttle cable free play: 3.0–5.0 mm (0.12–0.20 in)

 

[bob808]

It's pointless
I did NOT touch no1 screw. I only messed with 2-3-4.
I tried with one way valves and now the oil is not to rampart but still, no1 goes up up up and now it's sucking 3 out 2 declines at a lower rate and 4 seems somewhat steady. I really don't get it. I had to stop the bike as all oil was going up hose no1 and didn't want to get it into the air system.
I presume the one way valves are installed such that air cannot be blown back into the measurement contraption right? I have like 2.5 meters of hose, the board sits on the ground and I keep the hoses as high as possible so the oil does not "fall" back into the bike. At some point I have to stop the engine as the oil goes all the way on no1.


edit:
I forgot to mention that I don't have time to do any adjustments, since I start the bike the whole thing happens in like 10 seconds tops, I tried to turn the bike off, make some test adjustments then wait for 1 hour for the oil to settle. This is not working for me at all.

 

[bob808]

And I consider the build to be rock solid. I used larger Ts and Ls made for bit larger hose that way it is sealed for sure. I worked really hard to get the hose on those adapters and it's a snug fit.
And I don't get any bubbles while the oil level is creeping up no1 hose. It's when one of the other 3 runs out of oil that air is sucked into the hoses.

 

[bob808]

I am making a 2 hose version to even out 1 and 2 first, then do the same on 3 and 4 and then all together.
I guess that the whole setup was far off from the start. Also I didn't know that the settings are real sensitive. I messed 2 3 and 4 completely by maxing them out both ways. I was trying to get it steady in those few seconds that I had and now the whole setup is FUBAR. Good thing that no1 is untouched



later edit:

I give up for tonight
I synced them two by two. Well, then I found out that the first two could pull together more than the other two. So when I connected the 4 hoses I was seeing 1&2 rising steady and 3&4 going down. In all fairness they were synced two by two . So in order to have a proper adjustment DO NOT make this procedure with a 2 hose version.
In the end I managed to keep no4 with 1 and 2 on the same level but sadly, they were all going up and no3 was going down, like real fast.
So, I will try some more tomorrow.
What could cause no3 not to pull at all? Or let's say it pulls but not as much as it should. Maybe there's something wrong somewhere else.
I wanted to make this adjustment as I felt like the bike lost a bit of power, like really small change but it's there. And when I blip it I feel as it is not as instantaneous as before. I also just cleaned my K&N filter but that didn't change anything.
If I can't fix it tomorrow I will take it to someone who has a proper tool that reads out the actual vacuum and see what's what. Maybe no1 got messed up by itself.

 

[bob808]

Oh man, success finally!
So the issue was that basically the sync was messed up to begin with.
My issue was that the vacuum was so high on some of the tubes that they would suck all the oil out of the other ones so I would get bubbles and dangerously close for the oil to be sucked into the engine.
So I had to use the two hose version between the highest and lowest each in turn until I got them somewhat stable. At that point I could do the adjust on the 4 hose version.
So now my setup is similar to the one of cheyuen user. 2&3 higher at idle then at 4k rpm 1&2 are bit higher. I can live with that. Now I need to make a test ride and check the vibration at 7k rpm

 

[FinalImpact]

[MENTION=17742]bob808[/MENTION] any chance you have vacuum gauge or could go into dIAG in sensor mode 3 so see you idle vacuum?

 

[bob808]

No gauge but I went in diag. I guess in d03 I have value 100 and if I crank the engine it drops to 89-90. Engine not running as it,s in diag mode

 

[bob808]

That did the trick! I went for a test ride and really, it is much smoother now! There are still some light vibrations at 7-8k rpm but I never felt the bike so smooth.
Another interesting thing is that I don't feel that kick anymore when I pull hard on the throttle. The bike goes fast but I need to keep an eye on the speed as the feedback is different now. Seems a bit more linear than before. Thank you for your help.

 

[Slopeflyer]

Thanks for this. I will be building one very soon. My bike has mpg Issues. I only getting 31 mpg. Need to get to the bottom of this.

 

[Slopeflyer]

Two things. I built manometer,warmed engine,shut off, installed, restarted it and #4 tube sucked dry immediately then begin to suck air and create bubbles.
Second problem is the TB#3 is comming out under TB#1 and2. It's sticking out near the upper radiator hose next to the throttle cable. Is this a problem? Do I need to get in there to move it to the other side. I will be changing the two stroke oil I used in the tubes to thicker 10w/40. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

P.S. The reason I am going through all this is because I'm only getting 30 miles per gallon.

 

[rtw]

Two things. I built manometer,warmed engine,shut off, installed, restarted it and #4 tube sucked dry immediately then begin to suck air and create bubbles.
Second problem is the TB#3 is comming out under TB#1 and2. It's sticking out near the upper radiator hose next to the throttle cable. Is this a problem? Do I need to get in there to move it to the other side. I will be changing the two stroke oil I used in the tubes to thicker 10w/40. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

P.S. The reason I am going through all this is because I'm only getting 30 miles per gallon.

I tried the method proposed by Fizzer6, and had no luck. Immediately bubbles and then a "foam" of oil that bounced around like crazy. I think the problem is that the pressure pulses and if it pulses a lot it breaks up the columns of oil into way, way too many bubbles.

After I decided to do the sync two cylinders at a time. I took two of the hoses off of the "F" fittings and connected them with a *restrictor*, and put in slightly heavier oil. With the restrictor, the oil does not immediately move and bounce. It slowly responds to the pressure differences. This also means you have to be patient and do small adjustments and wait to see the response (it will respond).

I found syncing 2-3-4 to #1 works. They change a little after sync each one, but after two passes through (they are fast), everything is balanced (I think).

RTW

 

[FIZZER6]

I tried the method proposed by Fizzer6, and had no luck. Immediately bubbles and then a "foam" of oil that bounced around like crazy. I think the problem is that the pressure pulses and if it pulses a lot it breaks up the columns of oil into way, way too many bubbles.

After I decided to do the sync two cylinders at a time. I took two of the hoses off of the "F" fittings and connected them with a *restrictor*, and put in slightly heavier oil. With the restrictor, the oil does not immediately move and bounce. It slowly responds to the pressure differences. This also means you have to be patient and do small adjustments and wait to see the response (it will respond).

I found syncing 2-3-4 to #1 works. They change a little after sync each one, but after two passes through (they are fast), everything is balanced (I think).

RTW

The vacuum restrictors are key.

 

[Zealot]

In doing this, would it not be better to sync each one separately? Together is think they pull from each other and throw off the reading slightly. More correctly - a vented reservoir would work better, no?

 

[FinalImpact]

In doing this, would it not be better to sync each one separately? Together is think they pull from each other and throw off the reading slightly. More correctly - a vented reservoir would work better, no?

Because tinkering with one effects idle speed and that EFFECTS ALL cylinders well its very tough to do this with a single gauge. In short, any change in RPM impacts the vacuum and Moving a sync screw changes the idle speed and effects ALL Readings.

As a spot check, yes you could verify or get an idea but on the whole, as soon as you mess with one, it impacts the others hence the need for 4 measuring devices.

O/T to the question but:

If I were to take the time to build such a device I would ADD a "T" to every line after the restrictor and ADD VOLUME. This would allow you to REV the engine and NOT suck the fluid up. Think of it as a fluid damper. Something like a 1000 cc syringe with the plunger locked in place. It will absorb spikes or fluctuations but still read the same...

 

[Zealot]

You misunderstood me. I meant that you have four lines at once, although they're unattached - just sharing a reservoir for fluid uptake. I'd worry it might surge a bit high though if the tube length wasn't calculated properly. Perhaps using a heavy oil might work, similar to mercury.

Like this, with each line going down into the same resevoir. Read all four at once, and not have them pull from one another.

l l l l
[___]

I'm actually wondering if it'd be further help if the manometer were angled, to put Bernoulli's principle into action. It'd be a bit more accurate than straight up or down. Might even give that a try.

 

[FinalImpact]

The vacuum restrictors are key.

Adding to this:
Just because "something is inline" its Inside Diameter (ID) REALLY MATTERS! As in the the bulk of all issues related to "Sucking the oil into the engine" are from the incorrect size of orifice/restrictor being used. Folks need to understand that a tiny change in DIAMETER INSIDE THE RESTRICTOR IS A HUGE CHANGE in respect to the AREA or how much air volume can flow!

NOTE TO DIY BUILDERS: If the ID of your restictor is 1/16" - ITS TOO BIG and you will most likely suck fluid! Notice here what cutting the ID in half does? The area shrinks by 4X!!!
ID: 1/16" = 0.0625"
radius: = 0.03125 in
Circ: = 0.19635 in <-circumference
Area: = 0.00306796 in2

Lets cut the diameter in 1/2. Notice what the area does?
1/32" = 0.03125"
radius: = 0.015625 in
Circ: = 0.0981748 in
Area: = 0.00076699 in2 << Area is 1/4 of the 1/16" size!!! Point; NOT Any Restrictor will do!!!

IMO - start SMALL and move up! Something like an ID of 0.015" to 0.030"

If you have an 0.0625" ID orifice, insert a small wire or paper clip through it to reduce its size. Bend the ends over so it stays in place.
Also a standard volume like a 50mL (2.0oz) syringe T'd right after the restrictor will reduce the chances of fluid being sucked up. It acts a pulsation damper.