Won't go into 3rd gear upwards

[AlexdeCatt]

Hi all, been long time since I've been on here. Hi all. jtime just getting set for the summer and I noticed it difficult getting into 3rd gear. Now it won't go in at all. The peg moves but there is no click or resistance. 1st and 2nd seem ok. So before I go removing the engine any suggestions what the issue might be? I considered the gear change mech or even the gears themselves. Looks scary...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hi all, been long time since I've been on here. Hi all. jtime just getting set for the summer and I noticed it difficult getting into 3rd gear. Now it won't go in at all. The peg moves but there is no click or resistance. 1st and 2nd seem ok. So before I go removing the engine any suggestions what the issue might be? I considered the gear change mech or even the gears themselves. Looks scary...

Can I assume the engine is running and the bike moving (or safely on the centerstand)?

Not likely as you have two gears shifting upward but check clearances for ALL SHIFTING LINKAGES and that thier NOT binding/hitting on anything hard.

The heim joints, located under the rubber boots (on each end of the long shifter rod) like to be well lubricated (not WD 40).

I would start there, with the basics.

 

[AlexdeCatt]

Oh god oh god it's going to be one of them isn't it? Will crack on and let you guys know.

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm gonna roll the dice and hope your situation is not at bad as it sounds.
That is: If the shift drum is not fully rotating to the next gear, it won't allow a change. So it offers no resistance. So, if its not the external levers being bound, it **appears** to isolate the fault to the shaft and parts right under that cover by the starter.

Point: if it were a lockout device (keeps you from selecting two gears at once) you'd be splitting the case. This sounds like external linkage or the shift mechanism with the spring loaded levers just under the cover (which is good news)!!

Before going any further, can you confirm the foot lever pivot section is centered in the triangular opening?? It must have EQUAL FOR/AFT TRAVEL for the "pivot" through this triangle opening... Mind you, the sets are rubber mounted so standing on the pegs can change how far the lever moves the adjusting rod.

This comes to mind: GP reverse shifting with stock rearsets?

Keep in mind that for equal throws in both direction BOTH ends should form a 90° angle from the pivot location to the BALL location when the transmission is at rest. As you can see here in RED, this near ideal while in blue its less than ideal. Adjust the LENGTH of the shaft to correct the angles and make them both form a 90° right angles! What I see with MANY of the set back plates is they ignored this basic concept and as a result, the linkage moves a different amount in one direction than the other for gear selection. This is not good as it equates to missed shifts!


GOOD - or pretty good, two basic 90° angles. :thumbup:

BAD - unequal angles = different shift travel amounts up vs down! :thumbdown:

JJD952 - Setup

A couple of drawings on the topic our Parts Reference Diagram
Shift Shaft / Shift Cam Fork

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Under this cover is where your internal shifter linkages are (accessable W/O splitting cases);

2007 Yamaha FZ6 (FZS6W) Shift Shaft | Babbitts Online

Its not hard to get to and hopefully something failed in there.

**I did have a 1980 Yamaha XS 650 twin that the spring inside broke. It caused all kinds of shifting issues but was a very easy fix.

 

[FinalImpact]

~~~~ SNIP ~~~~~

A couple of drawings on the topic our -->> Parts Reference Diagram
Image LINK--> Shift Shaft / Image LINK--> Shift Cam Fork

Under this cover is where your internal shifter linkages are (accessable W/O splitting cases);

2007 Yamaha FZ6 (FZS6W) Shift Shaft | Babbitts Online

Its not hard to get to and hopefully something failed in there.

^^ Agreed - hopefully something simple which can be accessed from the outside, as its not a failure mode we've encountered thus far!

No longer reading my posts eh??? :spank::spank: Blah Eric is hosting the parts fiche here (600riders) so threw the link in there.

How goes it? You've been distant of late! Missing all the fun!
Hope all is well!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Busy RIDING, burning up fossil fuel!!! :thumbup:

Three months of NO riding(actually a little, 4-5 miles, W/O a helmet) SUCKS..

I don't know how you guys do it up north for winter- BEST physical therapy for my neck!

Love the air assist forks!!! No leakage (oil or air) what so ever, very different bike!!

 

[motojoe122]

Busy RIDING, burning up fossil fuel!!! :thumbup:

Three months of NO riding(actually a little, 4-5 miles, W/O a helmet) SUCKS..

I don't know how you guys do it up north for winter- BEST physical therapy for my neck!

Love the air assist forks!!! No leakage (oil or air) what so ever, very different bike!!

Winter time out here means lots of maintenance and just a couple added farkles.......

 

[AlexdeCatt]

Thanks so much guys. Some of what was said had too many letters in so it will take further reading to understand. I didn't know some words actually HAD so many letters in... anyway. Will get back to you. Cheers.

 

[FinalImpact]

Thanks so much guys. Some of what was said had too many letters in so it will take further reading to understand. I didn't know some words actually HAD so many letters in... anyway. Will get back to you. Cheers.

Condensed ->> the DOTS SHOULD NOT TOUCH when shifting....
Verify there is equal distance here and that the Lever does not hit the rear sets when shifting. It does not have to be perfectly centered, but it must not collide when shifting. Spin the the rear tire by hand (ENGINE OFF) and click the lever up and down to confirm range of motion.

 

[AlexdeCatt]

I'm trying to put a you tube clip on to demonstrate the issue. The shaft and associated bit's look okay but still struggling. Have a look and let me know what you think. Thanks again. Found the link.... https://youtu.be/kslHC43NOhY

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

It appears that either the exterior shifter linkage or the linkage under the cover is NOT returning fully. Not returning fully will NOT allow you to shift to the next gear.

If it doesn't return to the say second gear(shift and release), you won't be able to shift to the next gear..

Does the shifter lever seem to have the same amount of spring tension in both directions and the shifter moving the same amount?? If you can measure the travel and check it.

 

[PhotoAl]

Check the shaft that the shifter mounts on. Had my 2004 shifting funny because the shifter was not moving freely on the shaft. Pull it off, clean and lube with good waterproof grease - just enough not too much.

 

[FinalImpact]

As I mentioned before; leave the engine OFF and run us a little video up close.

You will need to rotate the rear tire for and aft to allow this to happen.

Shift it down (move tire with your hand until it clicks into gear fully)
Shift it up (move tire with your hand until it clicks into gear fully)
Onto 3rd - (move tire with your hand until it clicks into gear fully)
- What we want to see is lever travel movement.

I'm guessing your next step is disconnect the linkage and move only the lever at the transmission. If this doesn't help, remove the lever and remove the cover behind it. Use some Teflon Tape (plumbers thread tape) over the splines so the seal is not damaged.

You are looking for a broken spring or anything that looks out of place.

Under the cover (upper right)...
PS - Thank [MENTION=2355]kinderwood[/MENTION] for these pictures...

 

[kinderwood]

[MENTION=15973]AlexdeCatt[/MENTION]
Careful with the bike on the center stand and that wheel in gear! Doesn't take much energy to roll it forward off the stand if the bike were to shift onto the rear wheel and let it grab. Like [MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] said, a video with the engine off & close up to the shifter & linkage would help. Rotate the wheel by hand and work the shifter by hand.

The linkage movement and the sounds as the shifter moves through it's detents are two things that would help a diagnosis.

[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION]
That's a nice tip, putting teflon on the splines to protect the seals. I'll have to remember that one.

 

[FinalImpact]

Careful with the bike on the center stand and that wheel in gear! Doesn't take much energy to roll it forward off the stand if the bike were to shift onto the rear wheel and let it grab.

The linkage movement and the sounds as the shifter moves through it's detents are two things that would help a diagnosis.

^^ Tru dat on both accounts!

PS - the wide tape works best!

 

[AlexdeCatt]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0fck9har3lxgjpc/AAC9IYaHqupSsDZqmLLgB5V9a

link for inside of cover. Will put a video on shortly of gear changing with the engine off. I keep saying it but thank you guys so much for your continued help.

 

[FinalImpact]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0fck9har3lxgjpc/AAC9IYaHqupSsDZqmLLgB5V9a

link for inside of cover. Will put a video on shortly of gear changing with the engine off. I keep saying it but thank you guys so much for your continued help.

^^ UHG - Looks like some Milkshake and broken spring... That arm you extracted is supposed to return to center (wire spring), with it broken or off its tracks (disfigured), it prevents the catch from grabbing the shift drum.
^^>> EDIT: After Finding a Way to Zoom in - is the tiny wire spring Disfigured? Does the "Double Hook" Drum Rotator return to center each time its rotated? At first it looked bent but I found a way to zoom. Now it doesn't. Also, the Shift Drum (with some effort), should Rotate through the gears, IFNM, Clockwise = 1st, CCW for 2 - 6th.

You have water in your crankcase. Too! When is the last time the oil was changed and how full is it right now? That area is not known for high air volume circulation so it may be condensing in there from short trips and lots of sitting. But check the oil level AND look in the Coolant tank & radiator for oil film.

Take a look at these... Not identical, but the operation is the same. The two springs work together. If one fails to return to its origin, shifting is hindered.

OP - pic....
View attachment 56413

EDIT -->> ADDED Actual FZ Part: (tks fleebay) +1
Does the assembly on the left rotate equal amounts BOTH directions and return to center?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0fck9har3lxgjpc/AAC9IYaHqupSsDZqmLLgB5V9a

link for inside of cover. Will put a video on shortly of gear changing with the engine off. I keep saying it but thank you guys so much for your continued help.

Ouch!!!!

I'm surprised it shifted at all in that condition...

Glad you found it and saved a BUNCH of $ too!! :thumbup:

 

[AlexdeCatt]

Milkshake? Yeah I thought we were supposed to use banana flavour McDonalds milkshake? No? I must admit... it does look pretty bad in there now that you mention it. I have no idea about this sort of thing. I do alright though...
Should I clean it out, re-oil it, and re-assemble with new gasket?
I can't see the difference between the two at the moment but I'll scrutinize it later and see.
Lets not talk about the oil change :-S ... it'll be safe to say one will be happening soon.

Cheers for all the help again... will get back to you.