GP reverse shifting with stock rearsets ?

[homeym3]

Hi guys !

I've been searching for hours now and can't find any solid info on what's necessary to switch to GP shift with stock rearsets on a 09 FZ6.

So far all I can find is maybe with a bent shift rod available from woodcraft, made for the 03-05 r6.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you !

 

[Carlos840]

This look like an easy way of doing it:

Fliiped Shifter - Sportbikes.net

Just get a ball joint like this one:

M6x1.0 LH LINKAGE BALL JOINT ZINC PLATED WITH CLIP | eBay

Drill the stock one on the shift pedal, and flip things around. If it bothers you to have the shifter rod out of the frame you can use shrink tubing to camo it in black.

 

[homeym3]

I thought that would be the best setup too, but I thought that finding a similar ball joint linkage would be a PITA. Thank you for the links !
I actually ended up going with a one I found on mcmaster.com, part # 6058K852. Somebody posted the McMaster link further down in the SBN thread. Thanks again ! I'm excited to do the swap.

 

[Carlos840]

I thought that would be the best setup too, but I thought that finding a similar ball joint linkage would be a PITA. Thank you for the links !
I actually ended up going with a one I found on mcmaster.com, part # 6058K852. Somebody posted the McMaster link further down in the SBN thread. Thanks again ! I'm excited to do the swap.

I am not convinced your ball joint is the correct one!

The one on McMAster that everybody used to do the rear set mod is the:

Metric Heavy Duty Ball Joint Linkages 6275K63

It should have a 6mm LH threaded shank with a RH threaded stud at least 10mm long.

(actually upon double checking it looks like your will work, the one i posted is just heavier duty.)

 

[homeym3]

I went with the 6058k852 because the stud is 14mm long. The thickness of the shift pedal itself was about 6mm, so I just didn't want to come short. On the other hand, heavy duty would have been nice.

Thanks again !!

 

[FinalImpact]

Keep in mind that for equal throws in both direction BOTH ends should form a 90° angle from the pivot location to the BALL location when the transmission is at rest. As you can see here in RED, this near ideal while in blue its less than ideal. Modify the LENGTH of the shaft to correct the angles and make it form a 90°. What I see with MANY of the set back plates is they ignored this basic concept and as a result, the linkage moves a different amount in one direction than the other for gear selection. This is not good as it equates to missed shifts!


GOOD - or pretty good, two basic 90° angles. :thumbup:

BAD - unequal angles = different shift travel amounts up vs down! :thumbdown:

[MENTION=25770]homeym3[/MENTION]
JJD952 - Setup

 

[homeym3]

Very good to know, thanks for the heads up ! It definitely did not occur to me.

Hopefully I can get close enough to a 90 degree angle with proper positioning of the piece that clamps on to the transmission shaft.

Do you think modification of the shift rod will be necessary ? I am not installing set back plates, just switching to GP shift pattern....

 

[agf]

Hey Randy the angles on my shifter rod are about equal but they are both obtuse because I like my shift pedal low, do you think I should change the link on the gear input shaft by one spline to give two 90 angles or doesn't it matter as long as they are both pretty close?

 

[FinalImpact]

Very good to know, thanks for the heads up ! It definitely did not occur to me.

Hopefully I can get close enough to a 90 degree angle with proper positioning of the piece that clamps on to the transmission shaft.

Do you think modification of the shift rod will be necessary ? I am not installing set back plates, just switching to GP shift pattern....

It ** looks like ** if you point the splined lever UP, you may be short shafted! Just keep in mind that shaft may be at its last threads in your case so consider extending it if you run out of threads....

I'm just throwing this out there but, is it an option to leave the top alone and mount the ball directly to the shift lever? Much more work and less space...
I keep looking for sets that move back and make it all possible. About to do a shout out to 09 owners to measure spacing on the rear sets mount... I;m done with rubber mounted but too many things going on right now....

 

[FinalImpact]

Hey Randy the angles on my shifter rod are about equal but they are both obtuse because I like my shift pedal low, do you think I should change the link on the gear input shaft by one spline to give two 90 angles or doesn't it matter as long as they are both pretty close?

How far is it rotated (clocked)? In your case it sounds like its been that way a while?? Any issues with missed shifts? Can you toss up a picture?
What I found with the stock rear sets is that triangle window of operation is the gating factor. Rotating the splines up top does not add any value as the lever is limited in travel by the triangle window. Moving it up top, just messed up my alignment. To bad its not setup like the brake lever. Much better but the splines are too course.

Get the camera as square as possible as I see my own picture creates a parallax error.

 

[agf]

Ok ill take a shot before work in the am
Bikes all snuggled down with the tender in the garage and i'm tenderly snuggled with the missus on the couch
But back to shifts i occasionaly muck one up but its usually me clutching or too much throttle when im distracted by a dodgy cage doing something wacky although i found neutral tonight during a turn which caught me unawares
Worth checking!!!
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now it would appear to work beautifully thx TT and Dennis

 

[agf]

As straight on as i could get

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now it would appear to work beautifully thx TT and Dennis

 

[FinalImpact]

As straight on as i could get

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now it would appear to work beautifully thx TT and Dennis

Found this page was still up on my laptop awaiting a picture.... lol

So, I'm curious, it looks like the arm and joint in the triangle nearly has to be out of room to hit the next gear. Are you sure you're not running out of travel and hitting??? Especially with weight on the rubber mounted sets, you need to shift it while inspecting it clearance and then leave extra clearance for the movement in the rubber parts.

So, one of two things could be done. The goal of moving the lever that far is obviously to make the bike fit you. Because you're nearly out of travel, if that is the location you want the lever at, I'd take a hacksaw and cut it making a dog leg out of it moving it down.
So basically, center the ball joint in the triangle so it has equal travel in both directions again. Cut the lever partially, bend it to where its at the position you want and then weld it up and paint it. Black powder coat works too!

Once the joint is centered in the triangle, you can fix the angles on the levers so they form a 90° angle again. And while your getting stuff welded, add spacer to the shaft so it long enough. That will ensure you get your angles back to 90's. ALTHOUGH - is it out of threads NOW? Is that why the lever is DOWN SO FAR? Not because you want it there but because, the rod is too short and is out of threads?
- In that case: just take the rod out, index BOTH ends so you have them where you want them (place the splined lever back on the peen mark), determine how much length you need, cut it, weld in steel dowel, a bolt shank and either paint it, or slip a tube on put it back together.

If you have a welder and a grinder it'd be 30" job tops for either one.

Or - if its solely rider error - leave it.

 

[agf]

Found this page was still up on my laptop awaiting a picture.... lol

So, I'm curious, it looks like the arm and joint in the triangle nearly has to be out of room to hit the next gear. Are you sure you're not running out of travel and hitting??? Especially with weight on the rubber mounted sets, you need to shift it while inspecting it clearance and then leave extra clearance for the movement in the rubber parts.

So, one of two things could be done. The goal of moving the lever that far is obviously to make the bike fit you. Because you're nearly out of travel, if that is the location you want the lever at, I'd take a hacksaw and cut it making a dog leg out of it moving it down.
So basically, center the ball joint in the triangle so it has equal travel in both directions again. Cut the lever partially, bend it to where its at the position you want and then weld it up and paint it. Black powder coat works too!

Once the joint is centered in the triangle, you can fix the angles on the levers so they form a 90° angle again. And while your getting stuff welded, add spacer to the shaft so it long enough. That will ensure you get your angles back to 90's. ALTHOUGH - is it out of threads NOW? Is that why the lever is DOWN SO FAR? Not because you want it there but because, the rod is too short and is out of threads?
- In that case: just take the rod out, index BOTH ends so you have them where you want them (place the splined lever back on the peen mark), determine how much length you need, cut it, weld in steel dowel, a bolt shank and either paint it, or slip a tube on put it back together.

If you have a welder and a grinder it'd be 30" job tops for either one.

Or - if its solely rider error - leave it.

I moved the shifter to where I felt was comfy but did think on my ride in today that I could move it up and the ball joint closer to centre of the oipening on the rear set.
I have a second rod that has an extension thread on it so maybe I'll change that tonight and reconfigure it.
I made the extended version when I first put on the rear setback plates.

maybe I shoudl look at shortening the thread extension and re setting the gearbox lever to keep things at right angles,

thanks Randy

 

[agf]

alright I thought I'd attack this as soon as I got home.
I looked at how much adjustment I had and if the shift lever is hiotting the frame of the rear set, and it is or now was!
It was not adjustable to get it to close to the correct "right angles"If I adjusted it out(made the shaft longer), it fixed the lever end but didn't do much for the gearbox end
I went back to the rod in the last pic, the one that has the extension on it.
I tried it and it is about 1cm too long-out with the grinder! and no more lock nuts that are pretty superfluous anyway, if I use some loc-tite.....

... I'll get some more shrinkwrap tomorrow and put a fresh coating on and that will ensure that little sucker never moves!!!

the angles are much better, I'll get used to that lever position and I found a spare lever rubber so fitted that while I was down there, upped the idle a little and now time for dinner!!!
so here is the finished result....




a little update after my ride in to work:
the lever is very high compared to what I am used to so I'll leave it for now as I dont have access to a welder to re align the lever.
BUt the big improvement is with shifts, they are much smoother so I think the angles we re affecting up shifts and on the downshift the ball joint was hitting the rearset. Thanks Randy for being observant

 

[FinalImpact]

alright I thought I'd attack this as soon as I got home.
I looked at how much adjustment I had and if the shift lever is hitting the frame of the rear set, and it is or now was!
It was not adjustable to get it to close to the correct "right angles" If I adjusted it out (made the shaft longer), it fixed the lever end but didn't do much for the gearbox end.
I went back to the rod in the last pic, the one that has the extension on it.
I tried it and it is about 1cm too long-out with the grinder! and no more lock nuts that are pretty superfluous anyway, if I use some loc-tite.....

... I'll get some more shrinkwrap tomorrow and put a fresh coating on and that will ensure that little sucker never moves!!!

the angles are much better, I'll get used to that lever position and I found a spare lever rubber so fitted that while I was down there, upped the idle a little and now time for dinner!!!
So here is the finished result....





a little update after my ride in to work:
the lever is very high compared to what I am used to so I'll leave it for now as I dont have access to a welder to re align the lever.
BUt the big improvement is with shifts, they are much smoother so I think the angles we re affecting up shifts and on the downshift the ball joint was hitting the rearset. Thanks Randy for being observant

Glad that helped! Seriously - the little details all add up.

So what is the next step? Are you going to mod the lever so it drops some? And angles look pretty good. Maybe just cut some notches in your BOOT! Blah

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Also - you might measure the parts added and/or overall length and let everyone know how much you had to add and where the parts came from.

No point in tearing up a gear box when some adjustments can eliminate the problem.

[MENTION=14469]motojoe122[/MENTION], how much did you add to yours?

 

[motojoe122]

^^ Also - you might measure the parts added and/or overall length and let everyone know how much you had to add and where the parts came from.

No point in tearing up a gear box when some adjustments can eliminate the problem.

[MENTION=14469]motojoe122[/MENTION], how much did you add to yours?

I actually didn't have to add any. I used a pencil to mark a line where the foot lever sat then upshifted, marked a line, then down shifted and marked a line while adjusting at the rod threads. I did this until the travel was equal distance from the center line. It basically looked like a chicken foot. Ride all day at the track with no issues.

 

[agf]

Glad that helped! Seriously - the little details all add up.

So what is the next step? Are you going to mod the lever so it drops some? And angles look pretty good. Maybe just cut some notches in your BOOT! Blah

Its really interesting how you adapt your body to small changes. While I really liked the lever being low I have got used to it sitting in the spot it is with the levers and shift rod all with right angles. So I don't think I'll cut up the actual foot lever, but its a great idea!

I'll measure the length of the rod and the threaded extension. I have a stock standard rod so I can do the direct comparo from tip to tip.
It's easy as I want to re Shrinkwrap the whole thing this w/end anyway

 

[agf]

^^ Also - you might measure the parts added and/or overall length and let everyone know how much you had to add and where the parts came from.

No point in tearing up a gear box when some adjustments can eliminate the problem.

@motojoe122, how much did you add to yours?

Ok finally got to the bike and the old parts to take some measurements
the standard gear linkages is 214 mm long.
By cutting the rh threaded end by about 8mm and then added a threaded rod joiner and a new thread on that I extended the whole rod to 228mm long. This enables both the lever on the geabox shaft and the foot lever to be at approximately right angles.
Then I cover the whole rod and extension nuts etc with shrinkwrap to keep it all looking tidy.
The first two pics, one is my install with the rod and extension before I shortened it but with the shrinkwrap and the other is by another member - his is stock length. the third pic is all the bits I used to extend my rod.