where should I be revving to?

[wrightme43]

So lets shoot all kinds of holes in this fixed wing fantasy. Under optimum conditions the 152 may have a 7:1 ratio at 60 nauts if there is (A) no headwind, (B) the guy holding the yoke is smart enough to be at the optimum angle of attack and (C) it ain't a motorcycle.

The 4,666 used by Elm for the FZ6 would work in 6th gear on flat level ground on a good open run and accordingly the throttle miser rider may get some great gas mileage but let the gradient change much at all and the bike will fall flat on it's face much like the Cessna at 60 nauts if the pilot pulls the yoke back thus increasing drag and bleeding energy without additional power input. When I used the same thought relative to the Sporty it put me in 5th gear at 2,480pm and this too is great but I would only be going about 45mph. That said, the gas mileage would be way up there as long as I was once again on some pretty level ground as I would only have about 400rpm to play with at that point and the bike would have very little left without shifting down. Used as a baseline I see no problem with it as with all baselines, we adjust then to suit our needs.

LOL LOL LOL

See that is a formula you can put numbers in, and results that work come out. Pilots are very very very well trained. They spend inordinate amounts of time studying the physics of flying, and the actual realities of flying.

A pilot will be aware of a head wind, and know how to handle it. Oddly enough does he have more lift with a head wind? Could he glide longer? On that note Why isnt landing with a tail wind reccomended.

Now a simple way to handle the what RPM do I need to be in cruising thru town question.
One that allows you to accelerate WITHOUT downshifts. Why so you can move out of the way. You and I both agree 100% on that. What is that rpm for our bike. Around 6500-7000 rpm you can go even higher though. That puts you in the begining strong area of our engine with the ability to acell or decel quickly. Would 12000 rpm be good? NO why? You cant accel very long with out shifting. Would 4500 rpm be good? NO why? because you are in area of the powerband that it takes a while to build steam.
Now Elms formula does not work for this question. It may work for the what rpm should I ride at to get the best fuel milage? It may work for the what rpm should I ride at to do _______?


I dont think I have said anything mean, or rude, or in anyway calling anyone any names. I just quite simply disagre, have presented why I think the way I do.
I am not knocking Elm. The formula does not work. You cant put X in and A that is right every time.

 

[Howattzer]

LOL LOL LOL

See that is a formula you can put numbers in, and results that work come out. Pilots are very very very well trained. They spend inordinate amounts of time studying the physics of flying, and the actual realities of flying.

A pilot will be aware of a head wind, and know how to handle it. Oddly enough does he have more lift with a head wind? Could he glide longer? On that note Why isnt landing with a tail wind reccomended.

Now a simple way to handle the what RPM do I need to be in cruising thru town question.
One that allows you to accelerate WITHOUT downshifts. Why so you can move out of the way. You and I both agree 100% on that. What is that rpm for our bike. Around 6500-7000 rpm you can go even higher though. That puts you in the begining strong area of our engine with the ability to acell or decel quickly. Would 12000 rpm be good? NO why? You cant accel very long with out shifting. Would 4500 rpm be good? NO why? because you are in area of the powerband that it takes a while to build steam.
Now Elms formula does not work for this question. It may work for the what rpm should I ride at to get the best fuel milage? It may work for the what rpm should I ride at to do _______?


I dont think I have said anything mean, or rude, or in anyway calling anyone any names. I just quite simply disagre, have presented why I think the way I do.
I am not knocking Elm. The formula does not work. You cant put X in and A that is right every time.

+1 for above.

 

[marke14]

Oh lord, look how this thread has devolved!

Assuming you've broken in the engine already ...

ANSWER: 4k-6k around town ... definitely downshift if you see your revs dropping below 4k.

When I ride amidst potentially hostile traffic (which is most of the time here in L.A.), I tend to ride in one gear lower than I would normally be in for optimal mileage. This is because I decide to give up some mileage to have more power instantly on tap should someone begin to change lanes into me.

When there is little traffic around me, I try to keep it between 4.5k and 6k, for fuel efficiency's sake.

You can run the engine right up into the 12k-13k before power drops off. I recently went to my first track day and I had to force myself to not shift and to allow the engine to stay in the upper rev ranges. The bike did not overheat or anything like that ... it took some getting used to the sound of the engine running at the higher revs, but at the end of the session I was used to it. I went back to riding the bike as I've described above when I got home and there was no difference in performance.

 

[FZ1inNH]

Are me and CanadianFZ6 the only ones to fully understand the joy of riding an in-line 4 cylinder 600 cc motorcycle? It is all about the RPM!

No, you two are not. But, some of us use the bike for the multipurpose ride that it is. We use it much like you do when we want to be Sporty. We use it to Tour with and just relax and enjoy the ride. We use it as a commuter to save fuel, thus the low rpm/high gear traveling. The FZ6 is truly a Swiss Army Knife for a bike. :thumbup: If I was "only" interested in RPM and twisties, I'd have gotten the R6 with better suspension and braking instead of the de-tuned FZ6.

I can easily see your point though... :rockon: and I do understand.

 

[HavBlue]

I am not knocking Elm. The formula does not work. You cant put X in and A that is right every time.

It's always easy to say something won't work when you haven't tried it and engineers love to say things are wrong until the working class comes along to prove it right. Better yet the physics of flight relative to any number of machines have been proven wrong in specific incidents when one pilot got burned by another simply because that pilot's understanding of those physics hung him out to dry.

I regards to Elms idea, it does work and yes, I spent 70 miles on the most boring ride of my life today trying to figure it out as it was explained. I will however say it is not for me but I can see where a commuter (and this is where Elm suggested it) could use it.

First, I adjusted the idea to use 4,700rpm as the base as it was easier to target on the tach. Using the idea on a clean run I had the following observations. In first gear you will be shifting at 23mph, second will give you 31mph, third will give you 40mph, 4th will give you 47mph, 5th will give you 53mph and 6th will give you 60mph. Using Elm's idea from 1st through 4th the bike will do OK and the average rider should have no problem with defensive or offensive handling as the bike does have something left in that range. In 5th or 6th things will require some work on the riders part as the bike runs fine but do not expect anything because it is clearly in a miser mode and there ain't much there on a full twist of the throttle but I don't think this was ever Elm's intent. In 5th or 6th you can cruise no problem and you can even go up and down hills with relative ease while maintaining the target RPM. In any event the idea does work and is therefore valid.

Just to see if it made any difference I started off with a full load of fuel and will fill the tank back up tomorrow to see how it did in terms of fuel economy which many who commute are interested in. After I fill it up I am going back into launch mode as I just can't bring myself to maintain this type of ride style although I do know there are those who can do it. Your idea does work Elm it's just not for me.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[FZ1inNH]

Well done HavBlue! Actually going out and putting it all to the test! Yes, Elm is right with regards to using those numbers as a guideline for commuting and mpg. I don't use the formula myself conscienciously but it happens to work out that way when I'm commuting or touring.

Also folks... while many feel that keeping the RPMs high and in a low gear is great to get you out of the way, sometimes this just adds to the trouble about to begin. Being that far into the powerband on this bike, should you attempt to get out of the way with a flick and a swerve, you could find you've used too much power and the rear is now ahead of the front where new troubles begin.

Each situation is unique... for sure!

 

[wrightme43]

It's always easy to say something won't work when you haven't tried it and engineers love to say things are wrong until the working class comes along to prove it right. Better yet the physics of flight relative to any number of machines have been proven wrong in specific incidents when one pilot got burned by another simply because that pilot's understanding of those physics hung him out to dry.



Thanks,
Charlie

You know this doesnt make any sense right?

It is a large mismash of nonsense.

Earlier you said that

"So lets shoot all kinds of holes in this fixed wing fantasy. Under optimum conditions the 152 may have a 7:1 ratio at 60 nauts if there is (A) no headwind, (B) the guy holding the yoke is smart enough to be at the optimum angle of attack and (C) it ain't a motorcycle."

A headwind would help him and extend the glide ratio which can be worked with in the rules of a formula.
The guy is a pilot and thats why they train, smart has little to do with it, its a learned behavior.


Engineers really in reality dont go around saying things are wrong while joe sixpack builds rocketships in the garage. Thats in movies.

The physics of flight are absolute. You can design something wrong, you can fail to tell it to do the right thing, or tell it to the right thing at the wrong time, but no matter what airplanes obey all the laws of physics.

Basicly Elms formula would have you accelerate to the 20s in first then shift every 7 or so mph.

Our lives depend on the ability to change speed and direction quickly in respone to threats. You know, I know it. You have been riding a long time, I know you are not still here because you ride unaware, or unable to avoid death by Camry. You even go on to say that you will not ride like that. We both know why. It is not safe, It is not smart, and it removes one of our riding tools. Every book on riding tells us to stay in our powerband. You and I both know why. Every book on riding tells us to keep our fingers on the brake lever. You and I both know why. 2/10th of a second is 17 feet at 60mph. We are in a very very serious life and death situation when we ride. You know it. Thats why you dont cruise at 4666 rpm down the road.

Back to the airplanes.

You are at war. Would you fly with your altiude and airspeed where you are at a disadvantage or would you fly where you are at the greatest advantage. We both know the answer. Any answer other than the best equals death.

Sometimes the good is the enemy of the best. Good enough doesnt cut it.

 

[sportrider]

I don't know my normal cruising RPM but I figured out this formula that is unbelievably accurate for me, here it is.

take the displacement of the bike (600cc) multiply the top speed of an FZ6 with a 180/55 17 rear tire (154MPH) divide it by the number of gears (6) divide that by the number of tires on the bike (2) add the number of members on the forum (approx 2290) subtract the year you were born and there you go!!!! thats the perfect cruising RPM in 6th gear


thats how I roll......:Sport:

 

[sportrider]

least wear per km?... Best MPG?... greatest alternator output?....

It reminds me of Hitch Hike's guide to the universe..... "The meaning of the universe and everything else is".... 42.

my formula is Smiles/miles or...42

 

[Raid The Revenge]

You know what guys? There is a terrible misconception here...

My idea was based around KM/hour in a country town!

I bet someone living in an urban ghetto with gangstas everywhere, with Mile/hour speed limits, would have a DRASTIC change in RPM range. Their average would maybe be around 8000RPM?? A hand off the clutch to quick-draw a pistol?

 

[jsteinb95]

I don't know my normal cruising RPM but I figured out this formula that is unbelievably accurate for me, here it is.

take the displacement of the bike (600cc) multiply the top speed of an FZ6 with a 180/55 17 rear tire (154MPH) divide it by the number of gears (6) divide that by the number of tires on the bike (2) add the number of members on the forum (approx 2290) subtract the year you were born and there you go!!!! thats the perfect cruising RPM in 6th gear


thats how I roll......:Sport:

That's a great formula!

Thanks.

 

[Hellgate]

Well, I don't know crap about the square root, of the third blue moon raised to the second power. But what I do know is the the bike idles at about 1,150 mph and the rev limiter cuts in at about 14,100 or so. So I figure I've got about 12,950 rpms for work with. I'm good with that.

Oh the original question if 2K is too low, yes. Try 4K to 5K.

Have a nice day everyone.

 

[SirIsaac]

Not sure if this will help (or is even pertinent) in this discussion, but I like to play with numbers, so I did some calculations regarding speed vs. RPM. I calculated the numbers two different ways. The first way was to observe that at 4000 RPM in 4th gear, my indicated speed seems to sort of toggle between 39 and 40 MPH. All other speeds vs. RPM were then calculated based on the ratios between the gear ratios. The second way was to do a straight calculation starting with the primary drive though each gear to the final drive, figuring the circumference of the tire is 17 inches plus 2 times 55% of 180 mm, times pi of course. The two methods yielded almost identical results, so submitted for your perusal:

 

[dako81]

Just leave it in 6th and slip your clutch a lot.

More seriously, 2000 rpm is too low. Your bike idles at almost 2000 rpm when it starts up cold.

In comparison to dirt bikes, the FZ-6 is not like a thumper, more like a 2-stroke in its characteristics.

Keep the rpm's up a little more and enjoy!

 

[DefyInertia]

6 pages!!!! Ride/rev it like you stole it?

+10 or so on 4.5K and up

EDIT - who is claud?

Well, I don't know crap about the square root, of the third blue moon raised to the second power. But what I do know is the the bike idles at about 1,150 mph and the rev limiter cuts in at about 14,100 or so. So I figure I've got about 12,950 rpms for work with. I'm good with that.

Hellgate, well said. But let me play along and throw a wrench in things. Per people's dyno sheets the actual redline is more like 13/13.5K, not the indicated or published 14K ....kinda like the R6 17.5K fiasco.

Actually, I just got Claud to test this:

This chart always makes me laugh. How is it relevant to this discussion at all? What were they hoping to achieve by adding this chart to the manual? Surely the engine was not designed to be operated like this. Seems like nothing more than a legal CYA "out" to me.

And am I reading it wrong or does it say all downshifting should be done at 15.5MPH except for 2nd to 1st which should be done once at a complete stop? Clearly not good advice to be giving a new rider.

 

[jamesfz6]

I was going to say 5000 to 6000 rpms is what i cruise when on the highway...........but i guess i dont need to say what rpm because everyone else did a better job at explaining than me....:thumbup:

 

[dereknjenny04]

I'm a noob as well, and I was riding in as low of RPM as possible, as I figured I'd be getting better gas mileage.

I understand the concept of being able to react quicker and it made sense, so I have been trying to ride a little higher in the RPM range.

I definately agree that starting around 5-6k the engine already sounds like it is about to explode into little pieces which makes it harder for me to want to push the RPM.

I come from dirtbikes, where I rely on the sound of the engine to tell if I have enough power or need to shift.

Anyone know the difference in MPG between riding around 4-5k versus 6-7k for in town riding. On the highway I run in 6th around 70mpg, so won't have much effect.

Thanks to everyone for inputs.

-Derek

 

[Hollow]

I by no means mean this in a hateful way bud. I just dont have the book right here with me. I am a noobie also and learned to run the bike by the manual it tells you what gear around you should be in at each speed interval.