Got Pulled Over By A Cop!

[Sparky10]

This surprised me when I bought my bike as well. I went just to check out the FZ6, I had already decided on it but my MSF was still a couple weeks away. I told the dealer that but they said it was no problem, they'd still sell it to me even though I didn't have a license! I could not (and still can't) figure out why they can sell to unlicensed riders. When car dealers sell a car they check your license, I don't see why it would be different for bikes.

They check your license as proof that you are who you say you are. Not as proof that you are allowed to drive. You can still own a vehicle, even if you are not legally allowed to drive it on the road.

 

[DefyInertia]

Vegas you crack me up. thanks for sharing.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I posted this up on the local forum here in Vegas. Whether the cop who pulled me over saw it, there was at least one LEO who did and this is what he said:

Just my 2 cents...

Most police officers in cars are either going from call to call while the motorcycle units (usually callsign is TOM unit on the police band radio) conduct traffic enforcement. As a side note, it is very hard to NOT get a ticket from a motorcycle officer (I guess the moon and stars need to align just right in order for that to happen). Occasionally, you will find a motorcycle cop driving a car but he/she will still wear their motorcycle boots if they are still assigned traffic enforcement. Now, in VEGASRIDER’s case he was pulled over by a marked police car which tells me the police officer was “fishing”.

“Fishing” is when the Officer is looking for a reason to pull someone over to find something else bigger. As an LEO, I used to pull people over for minor things all the time in order to try to find something else but usually the determining factor is the person's attitude. Hell, I've let people go even if the person did not have a license as long as they had the right attitude and agreed to have someone else pick up the car who was a licensed driver (or if the passenger was a licensed driver). I don't think most officers like to hang around and wait for a tow truck cause it can take anywhere from 1 - 2 hours for them to arrive (or if you are in the middle of BFE tack on another 1 - 2 more hours).

Now, do I think "fishing" is right? If you get an opportunity to ask the trooper who stopped Timothy McVeigh because he did not have a license plate on his vehicle and I think he would probably say yes. Or you can ask the guy I pulled over a little while back who jumped in his car and ran the stop sign after I drove by him. What made him run the stop sign? Maybe it was the meth rolled up in the little baggie on the passenger seat or the cocaine individually wrapped in his back pocket. Aside from the drugs, he was a cool guy and very respectful (given the circumstance) so I let his mom come by and pick up the car rather than towing it and keeping the vehicle (current laws allow for police to seize a vehicle or money if it is used in connection with a drug offense). Partly because it was the only vehicle the family owned and I felt bad enough I was taking him to jail considering he was just released less than a month prior.

I know for a fact that NLVPD does have some training officers who are very aggressive with finding reasons to stop a vehicle. While training the new officers the senior officer would say "stop that car" and expect the new officer to "find" a legitimate (key word legitimate) reason to pull someone over otherwise the new officer may not make it past that phase in training.

I, like most of us here, enjoy riding bike around town and occasionally

speed but I am willing to accept the consequences associated with that risk. For that reason, I have a class M and always keep my registration and insurance current but that doesn't mean I will not get a speeding ticket. Just ask the NLV motorcycle LT who gave me speeding ticket two months ago.

In my personal opinion, I feel vegasrider’s actions and the way he conducted himself were appropriate. As for riding dirty, that only messes it up for everyone else…..

 

[nimzotech]

Interesting and well said. Now what do you consider riding dirty

 

[lonesoldier84]

Yeah, can't argue with the cop's logic or sentiments as expressed there. It is an important/necessary job and there are guilty people out there.

 

[zmeiaspas]

I think it would be far more beneficial if cops would concentrate their efforts on dirty drivers rather than riders. Motorcycle riders don't usually die because they got t-boned by a fellow biker. Frankly, I don't think unlicensed bikers are half as dangerous as unlicensed drivers or drivers who are not paying attention.

On a side note, I've been pulled over 3 times on the bike since last August. All 3 times I was doing 20mph over the limit, all 3 times I knew I was in the wrong and I was very polite because I understand that although safe for the circumstances, my actions were illegal. I always pulled over immediately (once the cop didn't even move his cruiser as I stopped right in front of him the moment I saw the Christmas lights ahead), I always had a smile on my face, always had my bike switched off, helmet off and registration + license in hand even before the officer got out of his vehicle. First stop was a verbal warning; second stop was a written warning and third stop was just a "suggestion" I should probably slow down since the road is patrolled even @ 3am. The officer also told me about a couple of good roads in CT and suggested I should put some frame sliders on my bike

I'm not sure if I'd be as polite if I got pulled over for no reason tho.

 

[chunkygoat]

You could be surprised at how far honesty and a genuine smile can get you.

 

[krid80]

I agree. Making the experience pleasant for the officer can do nothing but help you.

I believe I was a victim of "fishing" once as I am thinking back.

I was riding from my house in Festus, MO to my parents' in southern Illinois to work on a car. I had several of my must have tools in my saddlebags (cordless impact, 6" allen sockets, ratcheting end wrenches) as well as my tankbag on the bike to hold some other stuff. On I-55 southbound I was going slightly above the speed limit but keeping with the flow of traffic when I noticed the lights behind me and promptly pulled over.

His excuse was that he couldn't see my license plate (it was folded up a bit and the plate had suffered damage from its previous location too close to my rear tire). He ran my info through the system, as I was manually bending my plate more vertical than horizontal, and when he was finished told me to have a good day visiting my folks.

Not a bad experience at all, and I still was able to average 60mph for the whole trip. *so I speed a little*

edit: this was my 1,000th post! Woot!

 

[VEGASRIDER]

I think it would be far more beneficial if cops would concentrate their efforts on dirty drivers rather than riders. Motorcycle riders don't usually die because they got t-boned by a fellow biker. Frankly, I don't think unlicensed bikers are half as dangerous as unlicensed drivers or drivers who are not paying attention.
.

That is where you are wrong and missing the point.

You are correct that motorcycles T-boning into each other is very rare, however riders involved with crashes with cagers, whether the drivers were not or was paying attention isn't the point.

When it comes to safety, it all comes down to you! The responsiblity of the rider. And part of that safety is being properly licenced, registered and insured which really amounts to being the minimum requirements that the law requires for you to be safe out on the road. In other words, be educated!

Regardless who's at fault, 90% of the crashes can be avoided. Do you think an unlicensed rider with no endorsement & papers, with no formal training/testing is more likely to crash vs somebody such as myself? Not saying that I will never crash, but just comparing.

Remember, Speed is always a contributing factor. And combine that with poor lane choice and not knowing how & where to look which is typical of an unlicensed rider, is a combination that will most likely result in a crash or even death.

 

[zmeiaspas]

That is where you are wrong and missing the point.

You are correct that motorcycles T-boning into each other is very rare, however riders involved with crashes with cagers, whether the drivers were not or was paying attention isn't the point.

When it comes to safety, it all comes down to you! The responsiblity of the rider. And part of that safety is being properly licenced, registered and insured which really amounts to being the minimum requirements that the law requires for you to be safe out on the road. In other words, be educated!

Regardless who's at fault, 90% of the crashes can be avoided. Do you think an unlicensed rider with no endorsement & papers, with no formal training/testing is more likely to crash vs somebody such as myself? Not saying that I will never crash, but just comparing.

Remember, Speed is always a contributing factor. And combine that with poor lane choice and not knowing how & where to look which is typical of an unlicensed rider, is a combination that will most likely result in a crash or even death.

Now you are missing a few things yourself. First of all, to be a "clean" rider all you have to do is get your permit (which can easily be achieved by a 5 year old if said 5 year old is willing to spend 2 hours of his life in a line in front of the DMV - something that I and many other did) and just show up for a road test where you either get asked to go up and down in a parking lot and possibly do a circle or a figure 8. I don't know about the road test in Vegas but I can assure you that someone who's "ridden" a bike for a couple of days can ace it here in MA. Does that make him road-legal? Yeah. Does that make him a skilled and responsible rider? HELL NO!

Also, don't compare the average motorcycle Joe with yourself. You are an MSF instructor with a gazillion miles under your belt. I wouldn't be surprised if you're a track junkie also. This is far more experience than simply having your permit and passing the MSF on a 250 cruiser after doing low-speed maneuvers for a couple of days in a parking lot.

All I'm saying is that legal is definitely not the same as skilled. Yeah, proper training is definitely beneficial but not being "dirty" is not the same as being skillful and safe. You can be "clean" and still ride worse than a rider with no license.

 

[dean owens]

vegas, i got no problem with your take or what you told the cop. they're going to do it regardless. and i believe you're a better rider than me. but i have to disagree with one thing you said.

i wouldn't agree that speed is always a factor. i recently got a ticket driving my wife's minivan. since then i've watched my speed more than the flow of traffic. since doing that i have felt less safe on my bike. i have people riding my tail and pulling out in front of me all the time now. i believe i was safer when i felt free to go with the flow of traffic (or slightly faster) than staying within the speed limit. i'm very much for obeying the law and i love officers. but speed limit laws are more about raising revenue for the state than about keeping people safe. i believe this is why so many more cops are out now that our state is struggling for funds. studies have been shown that if there were no signs that 80% of the people would drive a safe speed... 10% would go slower than the 80% and 10% would go faster.


side note: my ticket was for going 68 in a 55. now that sounds fast and dangerous until you know the story. i was following the flow of traffic going about 62-63. i was going to change lanes and get in front of a truck. to give space and make the situation safer for me and the truck (and less annoying for the truck) i sped up a bit to give buffer space. i didn't think i hit 68 but that's what i was clocked at. and it was for a very short amount of time. and it was safer than simply getting over in front of the truck. but i didn't get a ticket for doing something unsafe. i got a ticket for breaking the speed limit law. i was a quota for raising taxes.

 

[Mancolt]

I agree with Mr. Owens here. I think the majority of speeding tickets are more about generating revenue than making the streets safer.

But an interesting thing that I've learned from this thread and others is to pull over and just be polite. I always have been polite and respectful in the past, but I've only been pulled over on a bike once (by my friend's brother, so no warning, ticket, etc). I'm glad to hear that many officer's let bikers skate with a warning once they are found to be "clean". And I'm "clean" because I have my license, have never been arrested, my bike is legal, etc and I don't have anything to worry about besides speeding.

In response to zmeiaspas: I think "clean" riders are generally safer. Not because they are licensed, but because generally more responsible people choose to get their license. Yes it's true that there are probably some people out there riding dirty that are safe and responsible. But a responsible person is more likely than an irresponsible person to go through the proper channels, MSF course, etc and get their license. Thus, "clean" riders tend to be more responsible, safe riders. I think it's more correlation than causation. One tends to go hand-in-hand with the other. Just my opinion and observations though.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

Don't get me wrong, a person who has never ridden or had very little riding experience who takes the BRC MSF in most cases, will leave with just learning the basic fundamentals and I definately don't expect them to be a pro when they leave. That will come over time & miles. So are they skilled like a dirty rider who has been riding for years? No, but mentally I would say yes.

Having the right mental attitude to ride is critical to safe responsible riding. At least taking a written and a riding evaluation with the DMV, even though you may not ride like a pro at the begiinning is a step in the right direction and at least you were tested.

Everyone will become a skilled rider (hopefully) as they log the miles, but many will not improve their mental capabilities because they may lack the proper know how. Whether you're out on the streets or even at the track, you have to have the mental capabilites to ride.

By the way, the pass fail ratio at the DMV here in Nevada is 80/20. Meaning, 80% fail! Mostly becuase they fail to understand the instructions that were provided and did not do what they were told to do. That would fall under Mental Capablities. Thats one of the reasons why we end up with so many unlicensed riders out on the street. They just say heck with it, I know how to ride anyway, just a waste of time. Plus it takes about 4 months to line up a skills evaluation test with the DMV, which is a joke and I can understand that.

Unlike our BRC, where it's the other way around, 80% pass. We mentally get them prepared by coaching them over and over again so they have the skills & abilities to pass.

On another note, not saying going fast is bad, but most motorcycle crashes, speed is a determining factor. Another is alcohol, not saying riding over the legal BAC, but just having it in your system will have dire consequences.

2/3 of all motorcycle fatalities that were alcohol related were below the legal limit of .08!

 

[04fizzer]

One thing that I'm getting caught up on:

How many dirty riders do you think are going to actually pull over when the magic lights start to flash? If the cops are told not to pursue, chances are pretty good that they won't catch many, if any, dirty riders.

 

[VEGASRIDER]

One thing that I'm getting caught up on:

How many dirty riders do you think are going to actually pull over when the magic lights start to flash? If the cops are told not to pursue, chances are pretty good that they won't catch many, if any, dirty riders.

Well that would explain the LEO thanking me for stopping!