Front fork mods - PITA factor vs payoff

[CHEMIKER]

Hi all, over my road trips this summer, I'm 90% in love with my bike setup and wouldn't change a thing. The other 10% that I'd like to upgrade is the squishy front forks. I've read the threads on springs/oil and R6 forks, but still wonder about the risk/reward between the two options. What is the biggest bang for the buck and effort? Keeping in mind:

R6 forks
- buying them and not knowing/trusting their history
- buying or fabricating the installation hardware
- installation time and difficulty
- ride compared to stock and compared to upgraded springs and oil

Racetech springs/oil
- repair time and difficulty
- ride compared to stock and compared to R6 forks

Thoughts from those who have done one or the other? Anyone done both (Fred)?

Thanks!

 

[Lefty]

Subscribed, I'm curious too. :thumbup:

 

[Fred]

I did the R6 fork mod, first to Hellgate's bike, then I bought all the bits from him and put them on my bike.

I thought it was very easy, especially with RyanK's fender mounts to get the fender installed easily. Before those came along, we ghetto rigged some brackets that were pretty ugly but serviceable.

The rest of the job is just making spacers, which is no big deal if you have even the wimpiest of lathes. And I do have a wimpy lathe, a Harbor Freight 7x12" mini-lathe.

The install on Pete's bike was maybe four hours, including making spacers. The install on my bike was two hours at most.

The worst part about the R6 forks is that you are suddenly very aware of how crap the rear shock is.

Fred

 

[pkoosa]

The best mod I did on the FZ.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/13665-hyperpro-springs-installed.html

 

[necrotimus]

I did the R6 forks. I searched R6 forums to purchase mine and ended up with everything I needed with less than 1000 miles in perfect condition for less than $100. I also was able to buy the fender mounts and spacers.

Sure the R6 forks are adjustable but realistically most people get them set up and never change them. For me I went with the R6 forks because I wanted black forks to go with my black frame instead of silver forks and I was able to do it for cheaper.

I took my time with mine and did it in the parking lot in a few hours.

 

[Norbert]

I did the R6 fork mod. I have a 2006 FZ6 with the 2-pot front brake calipers, so I was able to upgrade my front brakes as well. I love it!!!!

If you had a 2006 or older FZ6, I'd say swap out the forks just to upgrade the front brakes. Since you have a 2007 FZ6, you have the 4-pot front brake calipers already, and getting the R6 forks won't make much of a difference. You'll be fine just upgrading your springs and swapping out your fork oil.

I have adjustable forks, but I keep the rebound/dampening settings both to "standard."

You may feel differently if you are getting hard core into track days, however......

 

[LERecords]

good info..

question about the brakes too.. i find recently that i either need to slow down a bit, change the brake fluid, or upgrade the brakes.. not that the bike is not stopping, but will the upgrade to the 4pot brakes help with stopping distance.. interested in hearing from those that had the 2-pots and then upgraded...

 

[DefyInertia]

How are the "squishy front forks" affecting your riding? What are you hoping to change?

I did the R6 fork mod. I have a 2006 FZ6 with the 2-pot front brake calipers, so I was able to upgrade my front brakes as well. I love it!!!!

If you had a 2006 or older FZ6, I'd say swap out the forks just to upgrade the front brakes. Since you have a 2007 FZ6, you have the 4-pot front brake calipers already, and getting the R6 forks won't make much of a difference. You'll be fine just upgrading your springs and swapping out your fork oil.

I have adjustable forks, but I keep the rebound/dampening settings both to "standard."

+1 cheaper, slightly easier, you know what you're getting, geometry stays the same, and you already have the good brakes so...

CHEMIKER, you are welcome to ride my bike anytime.

 

[CHEMIKER]

Thanks for the great replies! So it sounds like the performance payoff is about the same between the two options for the type of riding that I do (commuting, touring, and the occasional track day), and besides being brand new, the fork springs and oil would be less work to install than the R6 forks. It sounds like if I were hunting for a bargain, the R6 mod could be cheaper though.

The advantage of R6 forks over springs/oil would be the ability to adjust it for advanced suspension setup. Am I understanding that correctly? Any other advantages I'm missing?

Patrick, is the tool that you needed for the rear spring just a spring compressor? I have one of those, so I could do it myself if that's the case. I'm wondering though what the advantage would be to just doing the rear spring. It seems to me that all a spring could do is change the rear shock stiffness, not the dampening. I'm 150lbs with my gear on and have the stock setup set to 2 out of 7, so I don't think I need extra stiffness. Is that a fair statement?

 

[CHEMIKER]

How are the "squishy front forks" affecting your riding? What are you hoping to change?

When I tap the front brakes the nose of my bike dives 2 inches or more. It even happens when I roll off the throttle. The forks compress what seems to me like an excessive amount when I go over a speed bump or into a driveway, and doesn't rebound like I would like.

One caveat to all this is that I don't know that the suspension isn't supposed to be like this - it just feels to me that a sportbike front end should be firmer. I think the offer to ride your bike Nate is a good one, so that I can see the difference before I start modding.

 

[Norbert]

good info..

question about the brakes too.. i find recently that i either need to slow down a bit, change the brake fluid, or upgrade the brakes.. not that the bike is not stopping, but will the upgrade to the 4pot brakes help with stopping distance.. interested in hearing from those that had the 2-pots and then upgraded...

I believe that with a 4-pot caliper you get less fade and more feel.
It's not significantly different than having 2-pot calipers, all things being equal. They still may calipers with 2-pots for new model bikes.

Just upgrade your pads, clean your seals and pistons, get some quality brake fluid and SS lines. That's the biggest improvement you can make.

There was a certain amount of vanity involved in my decision to upgrade my forks/calipers. I'm allowed that, right? I like my shiny gold caliper covers, dammit.

 

[LERecords]

Just upgrade your pads, clean your seals and pistons, get some quality brake fluid and SS lines. That's the biggest improvement you can make.

see i hear people say ss lines all the time, but to be honest, i worry how "I" would use them in an emergency situation.. would i be more apt to lock the front tire and such.. but even better pads and new fluid would probably give me what i am looking for..

as for hte comment about not knowing what a suspension "should" feel like, im right there with you.. this is my first and only bike i have ever ridden, so i chalk it up to not knowing what it "could" be... but overall i am very comfortable and used to how the bike performs.. could it be better, sure... but im happy with it.. :thumbup:

 

[afpreppie04]

There was a certain amount of vanity involved in my decision to upgrade my forks/calipers. I'm allowed that, right? I like my shiny gold caliper covers, dammit.

That was a factor in my decision to go with the R6 upgrade too...I wanted blue caliper covers:Flash:

 

[Norbert]

see i hear people say ss lines all the time, but to be honest, i worry how "I" would use them in an emergency situation.. would i be more apt to lock the front tire and such.. but even better pads and new fluid would probably give me what i am looking for..

yeah I was worried that I'd flip the bike over in an emergency brake or something like that. Once I installed the SS lines I felt that it was a great mod. I'm sure you'll go through the same thing.

That was a factor in my decision to go with the R6 upgrade too...I wanted blue caliper covers:Flash:

Yup! Bling Bling! :thumbup:
Plus the blue anodized fork caps. :Flash::Flash:

 

[pkoosa]

Patrick, is the tool that you needed for the rear spring just a spring compressor? I have one of those, so I could do it myself if that's the case.

Yep, that's all.

 

[DefyInertia]

One caveat to all this is that I don't know that the suspension isn't supposed to be like this - it just feels to me that a sportbike front end should be firmer. I think the offer to ride your bike Nate is a good one, so that I can see the difference before I start modding.

We should try and swap sometime soon. You'll get to see what R6 forks, Ohlins shock, rearsets, BT016s, and 15/46 gearing feels like. I'd like to see what a 2007 feels like (fairing, footpegs, and suspension) as I have never ridden one.

We can take some measurements to see what kind of sag you are getting etc. etc. too.

I can head down in your direction no problem but I'm open to anything. This weekend is out but maybe the following one.

 

[CHEMIKER]

We should try and swap sometime soon. You'll get to see what R6 forks, Ohlins shock, rearsets, BT016s, and 15/46 gearing feels like. I'd like to see what a 2007 feels like (fairing, footpegs, and suspension) as I have never ridden one.

We can take some measurements to see what kind of sag you are getting etc. etc. too.

I can head down in your direction no problem but I'm open to anything. This weekend is out but maybe the following one.

Sure, I'll email you. I'll check on my availability next weekend. Next week good for you at all?

I don't have stock rearsets or gearing either, but you'll get an idea of the suspension and brakes.

 

[Dennis in NH]

When I tap the front brakes the nose of my bike dives 2 inches or more. It even happens when I roll off the throttle. The forks compress what seems to me like an excessive amount when I go over a speed bump or into a driveway, and doesn't rebound like I would like.

One caveat to all this is that I don't know that the suspension isn't supposed to be like this - it just feels to me that a sportbike front end should be firmer. I think the offer to ride your bike Nate is a good one, so that I can see the difference before I start modding.

How heavy are you? Unfortunately the FZ6 doesn't have preload adjusters and the springs aren't very stiff. I wonder if you don't have the right amount of sag, etc. Another relatively easy mod is to use thicker fork oil.

On another topic, you can try the brake+throttle method of braking -- basically, you brake but roll off the throttle at same time as opposed to let go of the throttle and brake.

Dennis

 

[tuningfork]

at 150lbs I am surprised you think the fork is squishy. +1 on checking the static sag and taking it from there (check the back as well!). If you do decide to make changes my vote would be for some springs and oil. Even adding a little preload if needed (with a longer spacer) and a step thicker oil might do the trick. Think tuning vs. major surgery....:thumbup:

I sometimes ride on rough roads and appreciate the plushness of the stock setup.

 

[Dennis in NH]

If you're 150 lbs, you're pretty light and the springs should be ok. But in the end, it's all subjective and up to your particular riding style.

I don't know how old your fork oil is but if more than a few years, perhaps time to change it and change to thicker oil. Another thing maybe your rear spring has too much preload making the front end lower adding to the front end dive. Checking that the sag is even (or close) will help identify this issue.

Also, take at look at how you ride/stop. Maybe you just have too much body weight forward. Either way, once you figure it out and get it just right, it will feel so much better. Once the bike gets balanced, it will feel like the bike's ergos changed and made you a better, more natural feeling, rider.

When I had my FZ6, I did new springs front/rear and thicker fork oil (from Hyper Pro). There are others and differing opinions. Hyper Pros are progressive -- some like it and others don't. I'm about 165lbs without gear and before the mods, my sag up front was a bit too much (don't recall exactly but it seemed rather high). With the Hyper Pros it was close to where I wanted it to be. The rear wasn't hard to fix due to the adjustment knob.

The other options mentioned here get to be more involved and I chose the Hyper Pro route due to cost and ease of installation. Eventually, I caved and went the R6 :rockon: route (i.e., new bike).

Is it worth all the trouble/cost? yes, but for me, it took some time to really realize the worth of it. That and some creative logic convinced myself that it was the right thing to do. As you become a better rider, you will understand more and more what they all keep saying on this forum -- modify/improve suspension before improving power.

Dennis