drop bike and now won't engage gear.

[mvthai]

ok, got home late from work today and didn't have much time to work on the bike until after dinner. well, as Scott mentioned, when I pull the plug to the fuel pump, the 10a EFI fuel doesn't blow when I turn the ignition to on. but when I plug it back in, turn the key to on, fuse blows again.
I did some readings on the wires to the fuel pump and it seems to be working correctly. when I turn the key to on, I get a 12-13v reading, off = 0 and yes, its grounded.
can I assumed that the fuel pump went bad somehow, causing a short from inside the pump housing? is this my next move, to replace the fuel pump?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You can try and put 12 volts from ANOTHER BATTERY, thru another harness to the pump (fused) and see if it blows that fuse too (likely it will), then you know its the pump...

IMHO, I'd then remove/empty the tank and pull the pump. The below pictures show a very small plastic tab (pic #1) which keeps the sender unit connected to the pump. It should be release to have enough room for the pump to clear the opening. (for re-assembly, it can be be put back in as one unit).

Some pic's were saved from other posts (for this reason), the filter (a screen) is inside and accessable if very carefull (pic's 2 and 3).

Get the pump on a bench and see if its locked up, screen clogged and overheating (blowing the fuse, etc) and go from there.. You may be able to get it spin again and clear what ever jambed it.

This link will shed some light into the process:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/16913-how-do-you-get-fuel-pump-out.html


BTW, it'll be a perfect time clean out the tank for any crap, a little fuel sloshed around, an air compressor (if available) to blow any debris out.

 

[mvthai]

I was looking up the cost of replacement for the fuel pump just in case I can't rebuild it and I was surprised to see that it's over $400, much more then any vehicle fuel pump I've seen in my life, including Porsche. But I did find some on ebay for a 09-10 fz6 fuel pump for around $140. My question is will a 09 fit into my 05(yes, I mistaken it for an 04 in my initial post)? they look very similar but I wasn't sure if they are the same or not because the part number didn't match up. my 05 has a 5vx-13907 and the 09-10 has a 20s-13907.

 

[FinalImpact]

I was looking up the cost of replacement for the fuel pump just in case I can't rebuild it and I was surprised to see that it's over $400, much more then any vehicle fuel pump I've seen in my life, including Porsche. But I did find some on ebay for a 09-10 fz6 fuel pump for around $140. My question is will a 09 fit into my 05(yes, I mistaken it for an 04 in my initial post)? they look very similar but I wasn't sure if they are the same or not because the part number didn't match up. my 05 has a 5vx-13907 and the 09-10 has a 20s-13907.

If you go for the PUMP ONLY POWER TEST YOU MUST HAVE A 10A fuse in line, it's not worth dying for (Internal short in the tank leading to spark and KAAAABOOM!)

But I must say it makes NO sense as to why this would suddenly be an issue. Do you have an Ohm meter? Can you ohm the motor input?

 

[FinalImpact]

You can try and put 12 volts from ANOTHER BATTERY, thru another harness to the pump (fused) and see if it blows that fuse too (likely it will), then you know its the pump...

IMHO, I'd then remove/empty the tank and pull the pump. The below pictures show a very small plastic tab (pic #1) which keeps the sender unit connected to the pump. It should be release to have enough room for the pump to clear the opening. (for re-assembly, it can be be put back in as one unit).

^^ +++10
Scott said it first. . .

 

[mvthai]

well guys, I didn't try another battery with an inline fuse but I did try to ohms it and got nothing, so I pulled the fuel pump. Jesus Christ, this is what I saw. I guess i'll be needing a new pump and maybe a new tank??? a lot of cleaning in the tank might do but I see bare metal.. not a good sign. does anyone know if the pump for the 09-10 will fit my 05? thanks.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Damn, that's bad........... Somebody stored it empty for a while with little to no fuel in it...

I'm not sure if the 09 pump will fit, if you do a thread search, I remember someone asking the same thing... I don't think it does but I truly don't remember...

As for the tank/pump, this place has about the best prices on parts around:

PowersportsPlus.com - OEM Powersports Parts from Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha at discounts up to 80% off MSRP Free shipping I believe over a certain $ amount...

I wish I knew about them when I replaced my blue tank (two really small dings).

I'm sure you already know it, that tank is at least 80% of your problems...


Below is a pic of my spare, 07 tank about 3 years old (currently in theYamaha box in the house):

 

[mvthai]

Well, I think I'll have to find a way to rebuild the tank. I just can't afford to get a new tank and fuel pump with that kind of price (about $500/tank & $400 for pump). I have done some reading online and found a way called electrolysis that seems very simple but effective. Have any of you guys done this before and if so, is there anything afterward that I should do to keep it from rusting? Or better yet, what is the best way to de-rust the fuel tank and restore it. Do I need to put a liner inside the tank after I de-rust the tank?

 

[FinalImpact]

In another thread I go into more detail but get a bag of pea gravel and some detergent. Cover the cap parts in lots of tape, close the lid and fill it with a couple of cap fulls of pea gravel, add detergent and hot water. Shake for 15min and dump. Repeat. This will gain you way more ground. If it punches through a thin spot, figure it saved your life a fuel leak over a hot engine is bad and could cost you your life.

Once you have 95% of the loose scale out by doing this a few times you could opt to run it as is. IMO converting it not going to stop it but I haven't done it in years so maybe the products these days are better.

Gravel is cheap and you'll make huge progress. Hopefully the tank survives.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Well, I think I'll have to find a way to rebuild the tank. I just can't afford to get a new tank and fuel pump with that kind of price (about $500/tank & $400 for pump). I have done some reading online and found a way called electrolysis that seems very simple but effective. Have any of you guys done this before and if so, is there anything afterward that I should do to keep it from rusting? Or better yet, what is the best way to de-rust the fuel tank and restore it. Do I need to put a liner inside the tank after I de-rust the tank?

Start at post #26:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/44986-88-fz600-abandoned-13-years-roars-life-3.html

If you do a search under fuel tank rust (and similar), there's many threads where guys have gotten great results cleaning the tank AND the fuel pump...

 

[mvthai]

ok, I've been running electrolysis on the tank for 2 days and it's looking good. I still have some work to do but it's turning out better then I expected. I'll be getting some POR-15 tank sealer and rust preventer into the tank when I'm done with electrolysis. I also did the fuel pump and it came out pretty clean but it's still stuck and won't spin. any tips on getting it spinning again?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

That looks a whole lot better!!! Hopefully the steel isn't too thin..

As for the pump, I've never had that particular fuel pump apart however its just an electrical motor in which the center shaft needs to turn..

I would think if you can break it down further (as pictured below) and manually get the shaft to turn. The below picture shows an outer plastic part of the pump.. inside that, the main part of the pump, you should be able to see the center shaft in the middle running up and down thru the pump. Zooming into my picture, I'm unable to see if you can grab that shaft (at the top, past the bearing)with a thin set of vise grips. If its reachable, I'd gently try that. Whatever rust/crud is in there should be pretty small to make it past the filter so it shouldn't take much to dislodge...

If you have an air compressor, that would help.

If the pump won't break down any further, try spaying some liquid wrench at the pick up and QUICKLY POWER IT UP and OFF with a 12 volt battery. Again some compressed air wouldn't hurt...

Perhaps tapping the pump gently will loosen whatever rust locked it up. That is exactly why its blowing the fuse

Good luck..

 

[mvthai]

Scott, I've been trying to get the pump spinning but can't seem to do it. I've check from every angle but can't seem to find the shaft you're talking about that can be spin without opening the metal shell. I did managed to make some progress with the old "knock it with a wood block" method but still no spin. When I connect the battery to the pump, I can hear it start to turn but freezes up. I have been hitting that thing like a crazy kid and still no spin.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Boy, they sure do seal that motor up with the bent over tabs holding it together... The main shaft is buried apparently inside that steel shell.

Couple of options to consider...

Soak it in fuel or better yet soak/spray it with penetrating oil. Apply 12 volts BRIEFLY to the contacts and try to get it moving... Again, an air compressor blowing air at ANY ENTRANCE POINT would likely help to dislodge any debris...

If all else fails, you may very well destroy the rest of the pump at this point.

Where the steel tabs are bent in, attempt to gently tap them out so you can pull the rest of the pump apart. Should you be successful, remember, it has to go back together and those tabs later tapped back in, should you be successfull..

You can't get much deeper into that pump...

Someone may have some other ideas, experiance, most would have tossed the pump by now however, If there's ANY possibility of saving it, I'd go for it....

 

[mvthai]

ok, wow, I am very surprised... it actually works. I bang the crap out of the pump with a wooden block and used high pressure compressed air to blow through the outlet, pushing everything back up into the filter. afterwards, I attached the battery again and it spins freely. It was so quiet that I didn't know it was spinning the first time I hook up the battery wires to it. The only way I knew was the vibration.

On the flip side, I don't know if I can re-use this pump because I kind of blew the filter bag open... It's a double sided sword, I get the pump working but the filter bag is now damaged and will let debris pass through the pump, which would again freeze it up. Unless the bag is replaceable but I think I read that it wasn't???

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

ok, wow, I am very surprised... it actually works. I bang the crap out of the pump with a wooden block and used high pressure compressed air to blow through the outlet, pushing everything back up into the filter. afterwards, I attached the battery again and it spins freely. It was so quiet that I didn't know it was spinning the first time I hook up the battery wires to it. The only way I knew was the vibration.

On the flip side, I don't know if I can re-use this pump because I kind of blew the filter bag open... It's a double sided sword, I get the pump working but the filter bag is now damaged and will let debris pass through the pump, which would again freeze it up. Unless the bag is replaceable but I think I read that it wasn't???

Excellent!!!

However the filter is not designed to be replaced... The pump wasn't designed to get serviced and bring it back to life either!!

How is the filter attached to the pump? Does it appear to be melted plastic over the filter from the end of the pump? If that can what is the screen made of?

Another possibilty, this company makes re-usable oil filters: K&P NOT K&N.
( Custom Oil Filters - Reusable Oil Filters - Cleanable Oil Filters - Green Oil Filters ) which utilize top of the line SS screen as the oil filtering element. (I currently have one on my FZ, very top quality BTW).. A call to them to see if their screen would be adequet for your issue (same size openings but this is SS vs plastic).. If feasable, I'd also ask about obtaining a small piece and their opinion on how to attach it to what you currently have that's not damaged. Heck tell them of the known problem of this screen clogging and perhaps they would look at yours and come up with something, a new product for them, a fix for us, perhaps your pump updated with the first FZ6 SS replaceable screen fuel pump!..

Anyway, some options, please post what you believe SPECIFICALLY the stock screen to be made of, maybe a picture of whats left as well...

 

[mvthai]

hey guys, just an update to where I'm at. Well, I finish the cleaning process and got a 2 layers of por-15 tank sealer in there just in case. Everything looks good and I took the risk and made the purchase for the fuel pump($150 for 2009 model, for some odd reason, my 05 fuel pump cost around $400). Well, the risk paid off cause it's an exact fit. Everything was the same except for the fuel gauge sensor rod.

It seems like a never ending problem though. Now I can't seem to find a key that fits the bike fuel tank. Are they not the same key? I never paid any attention to it. I had 2 keys that came with the bike. I know one of them was used to open the fuel cap when I had to refuel it back while it was still running. I seem to have lost one and only have one that fits the ignition.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

hey guys, just an update to where I'm at. Well, I finish the cleaning process and got a 2 layers of por-15 tank sealer in there just in case. Everything looks good and I took the risk and made the purchase for the fuel pump($150 for 2009 model, for some odd reason, my 05 fuel pump cost around $400). Well, the risk paid off cause it's an exact fit. Everything was the same except for the fuel gauge sensor rod.

It seems like a never ending problem though. Now I can't seem to find a key that fits the bike fuel tank. Are they not the same key? I never paid any attention to it. I had 2 keys that came with the bike. I know one of them was used to open the fuel cap when I had to refuel it back while it was still running. I seem to have lost one and only have one that fits the ignition.

One key should fit everything, the ignition switch, the fuel tank and the seat release.

Someone apparently changed something, does your current ignition key fit the seat lock cylinder? Bet it does, someone changed the gas cap and didn't have it re-keyed to match the rest.

You should be able to have a locksmith re-key the gas cap to match the ignition key if you can't find the key for that fuel cap.... You may be able to take the cap apart once off the bike and re-key it yourself.

This link shows re-keying a lock cylinder for a helmet lock: http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=28363&hl=guardian

Obviously, its a completly different part but the actual procedure for changing the lock parts to fit the new key should be similar if not the same..

 

[mvthai]

Thanks Scott. how hard is it to remove the fuel cap/key assembly? There seems to be 5 bolts holding it in place with a rubber seal. Is there anything else to remove to lift it off the tank?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks Scott. how hard is it to remove the fuel cap/key assembly? There seems to be 5 bolts holding it in place with a rubber seal. Is there anything else to remove to lift it off the tank?

As I re-call, 3 of the 5 allan head bolts need to come out (you can pull all five, it won't hurt anything). There's also ONE screw UNDER the gas cap towards the hinge, (so the cap needs to be open) that also needs to be removed, then the entire assembly comes off the tank.

Looking at my tank, there's 2 screws holding that assembly together once off the bike. I've never had that assembly apart so your on your own about that coming apart, shouldn't be too difficult.

As for the re-keying, once you get that deep, that link should help you re-key and get you ignition key to work. Be advised, you don't necessarily need ALL the lock cylinder slides(or pins), at least a couple of them to keep starangers out...

Worse case scenerio (and most expensive), you'll need a new gas cap with a key

You can see by the 2nd pic, two of the holes shown in the first picture are vents, look closely at #2 and you'll see what appears to be acorn nuts.


I hope the cap isn't closed as getting to that inside screw will be very tough. You'll have to somehow release the single latch to pop the filler open or drilling/hacking up the cap to get to that inside screw... The second picture is my old tank, with the pump removed. You may be able to reach the latch from here but it'll take some patience. The latch itself is towards the front of the tank. (disreguard this entire paragraph if the cap is open)