Downshift through every gear?

[Fishwiz4]

I have gotten into the habit of using every gear (except first) when down shifting even when traveling at very very relaxed speeds. I know you need to be in first when you stop, but down shifting with rev matching seems a little overkill on the street sometimes.

Some of my friends will just let off throttle in the gear they were already in, and maybe downshift once before grabbing clutch and kicking it into first and using breaks to finish the stopping maneuver.

What do you think?

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[Shamus McFeeley]

Some of my friends will just let off throttle in the gear they were already in, and maybe downshift once before grabbing clutch and kicking it into first and using breaks to finish the stopping maneuver.

That is kind of the lazy way to do things. It depends on the situation, obviously there will be times (like a quick stop) where shifting down through each gear is impractical, but it's better to get into the habit of downshifting through all the gears.

 

[rsw81]

I disagree Shamus, it's saving clutch and wear/tear on the engine by not downshifting every single gear as you come to a stop. The catch here is what if you need to be in gear to get out of a situation? Now you're up $hit creek if you're in 6th at 25mph.

So personally I tend to split the difference. As I come to a stop, I'll hold the gear I'm in, maybe downshift 2-3 gears as I lose speed (not over-revving the engine here) into 2nd until I literally stop and pull the clutch in to neutral/first.

 

[SovietRobot]

I prefer to utilize every gear, on my bike and my car(manual). Sure it will somewhat put more wear on your clutch etc but oh well, that's what it's for.

 

[ChevyFazer]

I mostly agree with rsw81, i try to balance between using all the gears and knowing when not to, but it all just depends on the situation. Most of the time when on surface streets i will only down shift from 3-2-1 to come to a stop if on the highway it all depends on the flow of traffic. But either way i make sure to always rev match to put less wear on the clutch and rear tire.

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[Assistant 04]

i usualy downshift throu every gear until second gear (execpt for emergency stop) and use the break for the "final stop" and put the bike in first gear at that moment

 

[fenderfreek]

You can't wear out a wet clutch doing anything it was designed for, particularly something as mundane as downshifting gears. Unless you're slipping it doing burnouts or something, pretty much everything else will go before that clutch will.

As a matter of practicality, there's no good reason not to use the engine braking since it's available, nor be in the wrong gear should you need to accelerate again.

 

[chunkygoat]

I ride in whatever gear feels right. If i think a light is going to turn, i may drop down a gear. If I'm coming to a stop, I use the engine to brake as much as possible. It all depends on how you want to ride, and what type of situation you're in.

Occasionally I'll find myself kicking down 3 or 4 gears to come to a stop, but for the most part I usually drop gears accordingly as I slow down, kicking into first right before I touch down.

 

[markersniffen]

Interesting...I've only been riding since June so I'm reading this gleaning for knowledge. In my manual truck, I coast a lot, and almost always use the brakes to come to a stop. I'd like to think I'm taking some pressure off the transmission, as I know the clutch is probably nearing the end of its life. When I started riding, this mentality switched over to my riding 100%. Almost whenever I need to slow down I'm using both brakes, and pulling the clutch in. Often I'll just coast for a bit, shifting down to match speed, but not engaging each gear. Sometimes this mentality isn't the best when making turns at intersections (or anywhere, I guess), as I have had to force myself to re-engage the gears BEFORE entering the turn as opposed to when I naturally do in my truck, which is usually in the middle of the turn....I think....I haven't driven my truck in a while so can't really remember to well...

Anyway, I definitely appreciate the post and discussion.

-mark

 

[FinalImpact]

Interesting...I've only been riding since June so I'm reading this gleaning for knowledge. In my manual truck, I coast a lot, and almost always use the brakes to come to a stop. I'd like to think I'm taking some pressure off the transmission, as I know the clutch is probably nearing the end of its life. When I started riding, this mentality switched over to my riding 100%. Almost whenever I need to slow down I'm using both brakes, and pulling the clutch in. Often I'll just coast for a bit, shifting down to match speed, but not engaging each gear. Sometimes this mentality isn't the best when making turns at intersections (or anywhere, I guess), as I have had to force myself to re-engage the gears BEFORE entering the turn as opposed to when I naturally do in my truck, which is usually in the middle of the turn....I think....I haven't driven my truck in a while so can't really remember to well...

Anyway, I definitely appreciate the post and discussion.

-mark

From your comment I'm getting that you're going to do less coasting?
In the auto pre-abs, and you said truck, you'll lock the back just like bike. In this case safer controlled driving comes from having the engine coupled to the axle in the correct gear! If you panic stop you'll lock the rear and loose control JUST LIKE a bike. Here the torque from the engine will help keep you from locking the rear and loosing control. Worn out parts or not, that's a BAD habit!


As for the OP question - I prefer to be in a gear that allow us (bike and I) to get out of harms way. Who cares about the life of the components!

thoughts: Lugging the bike at low speeds and higher gears stresses everything, provides little oil and coolant flow. Downshift and let it rev and you'll have more control. Plus if you have to panic stop, you are less likely to lock the rear when in the proper gear. This is a safety issue!

 

[rsw81]

You can't wear out a wet clutch doing anything it was designed for, particularly something as mundane as downshifting gears. Unless you're slipping it doing burnouts or something, pretty much everything else will go before that clutch will.

As a matter of practicality, there's no good reason not to use the engine braking since it's available, nor be in the wrong gear should you need to accelerate again.

Just curious where you learned this from. As far as I know, any clutch, wet or dry, will wear out eventually. Even with proper use "it was designed for." If you have respectable references to support your statement, I'd happily read them and possibly change my tune, but as far as I'm concerned, this is wrong.

Brakes pads are cheap. Clutch, sprockets, chains, etc are going to cost you a lot more in the long run.

 

[Shamus McFeeley]

Plus if you have to panic stop, you are less likely to lock the rear when in the proper gear. This is a safety issue!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but if you have to perform a quick stop, you should be pulling in the clutch to downshift to 1st anyway. I don't see how there could be such a thing as a "correct gear" to quick stop in. Since you've got the clutch pulled in, locking the rear is going to have to everything to do with brake pedal pressure.

 

[Shamus McFeeley]

Just curious where you learned this from. As far as I know, any clutch, wet or dry, will wear out eventually.

While that is true, wet clutches last much, much, much longer. You really have to try to kill a wet clutch to make it fail. All the bikes I've ever owned and I think I've only replaced one clutch (and that was my own fault). The basic nature of the wet clutch is that it is designed to take abuse and last.

 

[FinalImpact]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, but if you have to perform a quick stop, you should be pulling in the clutch to downshift to 1st anyway. I don't see how there could be such a thing as a "correct gear" to quick stop in. Since you've got the clutch pulled in, locking the rear is going to have to everything to do with brake pedal pressure.

OK - wording was off - and you are correct. In fact I argued w/the MSF instructor that I could stop faster and with more control if not attempting to downshift into 1st as our group all lost points if we didn't finish our panic stop in 1st gear. You can't pass his class unless you land in 1st. errrrr. . .

Agreed = In Panic mode, its very likely the clutch is in. Is there a pre-panic mode vs normal riding?

 

[rsw81]

While that is true, wet clutches last much, much, much longer. You really have to try to kill a wet clutch to make it fail. All the bikes I've ever owned and I think I've only replaced one clutch (and that was my own fault). The basic nature of the wet clutch is that it is designed to take abuse and last.

If this were the case, why wouldn't they make all clutches wet clutches? There has to be a trade off here that manufacturers are considering when deciding which design to go with in cars/bikes.

In "all" these bikes you've owned, what kind of miles were you putting on them? I've got a 2 year old Triumph with 23,000 miles on it and the clutch is going strong (and I presume it will continue to do so for some time). But i've also been known to get 120+k miles out of a clutch in my cars, even with some aggressive driving.

 

[Shamus McFeeley]

If this were the case, why wouldn't they make all clutches wet clutches? There has to be a trade off here that manufacturers are considering when deciding which design to go with in cars/bikes.

In "all" these bikes you've owned, what kind of miles were you putting on them? I've got a 2 year old Triumph with 23,000 miles on it and the clutch is going strong (and I presume it will continue to do so for some time). But i've also been known to get 120+k miles out of a clutch in my cars, even with some aggressive driving.

Maybe because it would be too expensive/complex to design a wet clutch system for mass produced cars? It certainly would be interesting to see a car with a wet clutch. Most AWD cars use some type of wet clutch to control the power split already.

It seems like you're trying to compare two things that are operating under very different circumstances. I also have had cars with over 100K miles on their original clutch like my 200sx. In comparison my 81 Honda 750F had 85K on its original clutch. You're not going to hear any argument from me, dry clutches can last a long time, but would you be able to slip your dry clutch as much as a wet (really should say wet multi-plate) one and consistently get the same kind of life from each of them? The answer is no way. That is one benefit of a wet clutch, the oil helps it shed heat. The downside of that of course is that unless you have a separated sump system (like on MX bikes)
your clutch debris contaminates your engine oil. Fenderfreek was correct in his original statement, using your wet clutch as intended will not (prematurely) wear it out. The nut squeezing the clutch lever however, well, that's the usual suspect of untimely clutch death.

 

[Andz]

I can't imagine not downshifting through the gears when decellerating, it just comes naturally and I couldn't be bothered with thinking "should I or shouldn't I". There are enough distractions on the road.

 

[Nelly]

I was always taught to use the engine braking as well as the gearbox, Downshifting means you are in the correct gear.
Emergency stopping is a different case, I usually end up in third and have to clunk down to first when stationary.

Nelly

 

[iSteve]

I'm wondering how many of you are actually thinking about things like "what gear will I shift to in this turn, and should I let the clutch out in each gear or keep it pulled in. And should I be using two fingers on the brake or three and this time I'll use four fingers on the clutch for the first downshift and two for the next".

I'm sure I'm like many reading these threads and thinking sure I do all these things depending on the situation but I just let instinct and muscle memory do the work.

 

[ChevyFazer]

On the issue of the clutch, i dont care if its wet or dry it will wear out eventually there is nothing you can do to stop that from happening. All you can do with any vehicle to keep the parts that are designed to wear out from wearing out prematurely is to properly maintain them and not abuse them. Everytime you pull the clutch in and reenguage it, it will put some sort of wear on it, wet or dry. Downshifting will put wear on the clutch, there is no way around it, but its designed to take that wear just like your brake pads. Everytime you hit your brakes it wears them too.

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