Do you ever coast in N at higher speeds? Trans clunk hard when shifting back into 2nd?

[nitroheadz28]

it's also safer to keep it in gear, so you can accelerate out of trouble should you need to.

As said above, if it's engine braking then it will use less fuel than being in neutral and idling.

Personally I change down as I slow, so that I am in the right gear all the time. I only change to neutral if I know I will be stopped for > 5 seconds.

I do the same, when I'm in traffic I always make sure I'm somewhat in the powerband just in case.

I only coast in neutral when there are no vehicles that can pose a threat. Regardless I won't be doing this any longer on public roads where I might need to speed up if a light changes, no sense if it can damage the trans.

 

[greg]

it's also quite satisfying rev matching as you down change, and let the engine pop and crackle a little if you have an after-market exhaust

 

[FZSexy]

i tried this once while rolling downhill in neutral. i was rolling downhill in neutral because i was attempting to "hyper mile" it, or whatever its called? its a technique to improve mpg that says close the throttle and "coast" when you can. and some other stuff

but anyway i did this and when trying to get the bike back into gear....any gear....i faced much resistance. don't recall if i tried to rev match but it finally went into second with a nasty grind and thunk. won't and will not try it again

 

[nitroheadz28]

i tried this once while rolling downhill in neutral. i was rolling downhill in neutral because i was attempting to "hyper mile" it, or whatever its called? its a technique to improve mpg that says close the throttle and "coast" when you can. and some other stuff

Ha yep, I'm guilty of attempting this on my FZ6 just to see how much mileage I can squeeze out. I'm at a high of 54mpg US right now, I know I can hit 60 if I really try. I got 54 cruising at 75-115 on the interstate with about 3 WOT pulls, so she has more in her. Mileage was so good because I was in a 75% tuck most of the time lol.

Its much more fun and rewarding doing it in your car when you're not in a rush- especially a manual (I'd even do this in my 6 speed Trans Am lol). I wish most people understood how much gas they waste slamming on their brakes all the time and never coasting/ being fluid with traffic and using the topography to your advantage.

 

[jentus]

if you want to go into 2nd gear smoothly, just rev the engine until around 3-4k rpm and then shift into 2nd (from N), it will go in smoothly.

 

[bluremi]

Sorry if this was already answered in the thread, I may not have understood the explanation of how the transmission works completely:

Why is it necessary to rev match when shifting down to 1st or up to 2nd if you are traveling with the clutch pulled in?

Example: Approaching a red light at 50mph from a great distance, I pull in the clutch and start coasting. As the bike rolls it slows down, so I shift down to 3rd gear at around 40mph, then 2nd at 30mph, so I can roll on the throttle in the correct gear if the light turns green. When I get to 25mph I expect to have to brake to a stop so I try to shift down into first, still with the clutch pulled in, but instead I hear the dogs clattering against each other and it doesn't want to shift down.

What is happening in this situation? I though pulling in the clutch completely disconnected the drivetrain from the engine so there should be no need for rev matching...?

 

[Love@FirstRide]

I agree that's a good general rule. Most of the time, I'll just hold the clutch in and stay in gear. I'd rather be ready to go if need be than let my hand rest for a few seconds.

Yeah rather than stress the transmission i just hold the clutch in when wanting to coast, its more work trying to get it into neutral happily then just holding the clutch
less work for your foot.

 

[fate]

Yeah rather than stress the transmission i just hold the clutch in when wanting to coast, its more work trying to get it into neutral happily then just holding the clutch
less work for your foot.

Guys... wtf are you doing?

If you want to save gas you should stay in the highest gear as long as possible.
keep revs low and cruise not much faster than 50-60mph.

If you need to slow down just close the throttle. The ECU will cut fuel if revs stay above ~1500rpm. STAY in high gear until you reach 1500upm then shift down as nessessary.

That going to neutral or pulling the clutch stuff is BS.s

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Guys... wtf are you doing?

If you want to save gas you should stay in the highest gear as long as possible.
keep revs low and cruise not much faster than 50-60mph.

If you need to slow down just close the throttle. The ECU will cut fuel if revs stay above ~1500rpm. STAY in high gear until you reach 1500upm then shift down as nessessary.

That going to neutral or pulling the clutch stuff is BS.s

I'd bet the fuel usage difference between high gear w/ closed throttle vs. clutch idling is negligible. Who cares which way people do it? If someone has the clutch pulled in and they are in the correct gear, it would take equal or less time to get back on the power in an emergency than it would take to downshift twice and then rev match because you were riding around with the motor at 1500rpm...

 

[fate]

I'd bet the fuel usage difference between high gear w/ closed throttle vs. clutch idling is negligible.

Maybe, maybe not.

Well it may be not a big difference in fuel consumption it makes a difference in wear and tear. (clutch, transmission, engine )

Who cares which way people do it?

If you do it, why not do it right?

If someone has the clutch pulled in and they are in the correct gear, it would take equal or less time to get back on the power in an emergency than it would take to downshift twice and then rev match because you were riding around with the motor at 1500rpm...

Also there not many "emergency" situations where accelerating is a better than braking.
In fact most crashes I see are because of ****ty braking technique.

Why are we even having this conversation? fuel is dirt cheap in the US. I am paying roughly 3times that in germany. But i ride to have fun and not to run a high mileage competition.

 

[Love@FirstRide]

Maybe, maybe not.

Well it may be not a big difference in fuel consumption it makes a difference in wear and tear. (clutch, transmission, engine )


If you do it, why not do it right?


Also there not many "emergency" situations where accelerating is a better than braking.
In fact most crashes I see are because of ****ty braking technique.

Why are we even having this conversation? fuel is dirt cheap in the US. I am paying roughly 3times that in germany. But i ride to have fun and not to run a high mileage competition.

I don't pull the clutch and hold it to save gas as much as its just safer for the way i ride, always passing people. I'm not going to have it at 1500 rpms thats insanly low, dangerous for when your riding in traffic. sudden brake and engine dies? yeah pull in the clutch but why have to do more things instead of already coasting with the ability to choose whatever gear fits the situation up or down.


When i walk my dog and i let it idle in 3rd and 4th around my community going like 15 so i dont even understand how you can let the rpms go to 1500 on the street. you would be going like 20 mph..

I get on myself about lugging the engine at 3000 rpms

Like you said gas is dirt cheap why engine brake and force more shifts than needed. pull clutch shift several gears down while applying the brakes... Its more time consuming to try to shift down every gear.

 

[fate]

I don't pull the clutch and hold it to save gas as much as its just safer for the way i ride, always passing people. I'm not going to have it at 1500 rpms thats insanly low,

I said shift down as late as possible(when coasting to next red light for example) to let the ECU cut fuel as long as possible.

Of cause in traffic you prob do 40miles or so, so even in sixth gear that is about 3k rpm...

dangerous for when your riding in traffic. sudden brake and engine dies? yeah pull in the clutch

yeah pull the clutch

but why have to do more things instead of already coasting with the ability to choose whatever gear fits the situation up or down.

downshifting even 2 gears is not really slower that rev matching and letting the clutch back out and then accelerate. well for me at least...

When i walk my dog and i let it idle in 3rd and 4th around my community going like 15 so i dont even understand how you can let the rpms go to 1500 on the street. you would be going like 20 mph..

You guys in america walk your dogs while on your motorclyce? wow.... just wow.
Sorry I never drive as slow as 20...

Like you said gas is dirt cheap why engine brake and force more shifts than needed. pull clutch shift several gears down while applying the brakes... Its more time consuming to try to shift down every gear.

Well engine idle is more harmful that engine breaking, but that is another story...
I also didn't say shift down every gear... just stay in gear. When it gets close a stop(~10-20mph) shift all gears down to 1 or 2 to accelerate away.

 

[BlackAndBlue]

just one interesting point to add. I do not submit this as a fact to change all opinions or anything; one is not wrong to ignore this just as I often do. But the thing is that is many states, "coasting" is blatantly prohibited by code. It doesn't get more specific that I have seen, but the code just says "though shalt not coast", in more modern terms of course. The reason is that in cages with power steering and power assisted brakes, if one is coasting, the engine is subject to stall, and then you loose those power assists, making it difficult to control the vehicle.

Do I avoid coasting just because of that law? Maybe sometimes in my car. It's certainly not enforced even if one does make it noticeable. But I just thought it was an interesting point to add to the conversation here.

 

[fate]

just one interesting point to add. I do not submit this as a fact to change all opinions or anything; one is not wrong to ignore this just as I often do. But the thing is that is many states, "coasting" is blatantly prohibited by code. It doesn't get more specific that I have seen, but the code just says "though shalt not coast", in more modern terms of course. The reason is that in cages with power steering and power assisted brakes, if one is coasting, the engine is subject to stall, and then you loose those power assists, making it difficult to control the vehicle.

Do I avoid coasting just because of that law? Maybe sometimes in my car. It's certainly not enforced even if one does make it noticeable. But I just thought it was an interesting point to add to the conversation here.

well what I could find online:
§ 4187. Coasting prohibited :: 2014 Delaware Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

it is only prohibit when clutch is pulled or in neutral so.. the proper way is still allowed.

 

[FinalImpact]

Sorry if this was already answered in the thread, I may not have understood the explanation of how the transmission works completely:

Why is it necessary to rev match when shifting down to 1st or up to 2nd if you are traveling with the clutch pulled in?

Example: Approaching a red light at 50mph from a great distance, I pull in the clutch and start coasting. As the bike rolls it slows down, so I shift down to 3rd gear at around 40mph, then 2nd at 30mph, so I can roll on the throttle in the correct gear if the light turns green. When I get to 25mph I expect to have to brake to a stop so I try to shift down into first, still with the clutch pulled in, but instead I hear the dogs clattering against each other and it doesn't want to shift down.

What is happening in this situation? I though pulling in the clutch completely disconnected the drivetrain from the engine so there should be no need for rev matching...?

What you need to know is any time the bike is rolling, all of the transmissions shafts and gears are in motion. So, when the clutch decouples the engine to trans relationship, the input shaft (coupled to clutch) can rotate faster or slower than the engines actual speed.

POINT: the longer you coast without taking action (shift up or shift down), the greater the chance of mismatch in speed between the gears.

^^ Clear as mud; I know. Lets say you rev it to 12K in 1st and pull the clutch in and chop the throttle. The vehicle speed is ~45mph. For it to go back into gear without a fuss, you MUST RETURN THE ENGINE SPEED TO SOMETHING close to 10 - 12K or the gears differential speed is so great the COGS and VALLEYS can NOT align hence the ratchet feeling you hear.

POINT: the longer you coast without taking action (shift up or shift down), the greater the chance of mismatch in speed between the gears being spun by the coasting VS engine speed.


FWIW: Although no one has said this, DO NOT EVER COAST with the engine OFF!! The Transmission and all of its reciprocating parts NEED lubrication which only come from the engine spinning. Short distances and low speeds are generally OK. Nothing more....

 

[rideslikean00b]

I like the thought that I'm getting improved MPG as a result of better use of the gears, no coasting, avoiding the brakes in favour of using the engine to slow where possible. :rockon:

The only problem I've had other than the gearbox on the FZ6 being a bit clunky in general is when going from 2nd to 1st with someone on the back. Sometimes sounds like the gears aren't aligning correctly. Maybe I just don't rev match between shifts as well with a pillion as it's never a problem for solo riding.

 

[bluremi]

I like the thought that I'm getting improved MPG as a result of better use of the gears, no coasting, avoiding the brakes in favour of using the engine to slow where possible. :rockon:

The only problem I've had other than the gearbox on the FZ6 being a bit clunky in general is when going from 2nd to 1st with someone on the back. Sometimes sounds like the gears aren't aligning correctly. Maybe I just don't rev match between shifts as well with a pillion as it's never a problem for solo riding.

Yeah, changing your use of gears will save you more than coasting...

My MPG went up from 40 to 45 just from cruising at 5k instead of 6k.