oscarg85
Junior Member
thanks for this info. very useful because i havent been in a accident, if one were to happened GOD FORVIDE, i wouldnt know which way would benefit me the most.
Crash aftermath summary - may help some of you
- Thread starter Wavex
- Start date
Great write up David, never thought of anyone posting up a "How to Thread" after crashing their bike, so I give you credit.
My advise to everyone is to get supplemental insurance, if possible. I have Aflac, and pretty much covers everything medical wise less the deductible, and pays the money directly to you. You are actually getting two for one. Medical bills would be covered through your own medical insurance, or paid by the other parties insurance. Then your supplemental insurance would kick in, reimbursing the money directly to you on the bills that were acrued. Like the ambulance ride, hospital stay, xrays, etc, that may amount to $10,000, your supplemental insurance will match almost the same amount paying it directly to you, letting you spend the money anyway you want. Like buying a new HD flat screen TV.
Make sure you have underinsured motorist and noninsured motorist insurance, which falls under the same category. Mine is $50,000.
There was a pilot here at work who got cut off by a guy who had only minimal coverage, and he didn't have underinsured or noninsured insurance for his bike. His medical bills were $15,000 and only got $10,000 from the car who hit him because he was underinsured. So he was out of pocket $5,000 on the medical. The pilot also didn't have supplemental insurance.
One thing when you are out riding a motorcycle, you better make damn sure that you are well insured. This includes life insurance.
My advise to everyone is to get supplemental insurance, if possible. I have Aflac, and pretty much covers everything medical wise less the deductible, and pays the money directly to you. You are actually getting two for one. Medical bills would be covered through your own medical insurance, or paid by the other parties insurance. Then your supplemental insurance would kick in, reimbursing the money directly to you on the bills that were acrued. Like the ambulance ride, hospital stay, xrays, etc, that may amount to $10,000, your supplemental insurance will match almost the same amount paying it directly to you, letting you spend the money anyway you want. Like buying a new HD flat screen TV.
Make sure you have underinsured motorist and noninsured motorist insurance, which falls under the same category. Mine is $50,000.
There was a pilot here at work who got cut off by a guy who had only minimal coverage, and he didn't have underinsured or noninsured insurance for his bike. His medical bills were $15,000 and only got $10,000 from the car who hit him because he was underinsured. So he was out of pocket $5,000 on the medical. The pilot also didn't have supplemental insurance.
One thing when you are out riding a motorcycle, you better make damn sure that you are well insured. This includes life insurance.
So, who was your insurance company, Wavex?
I'm sure you are a good, honest adjuster. I had one after Orlando got hit with the three hurricanes in 6 weeks back in 2004. My 14 year old roof gave it up on #3. I figured since the roof was old I'd probably be outta luck, but the Adjuster came through. State Farm screwed me in arbitration on hail damage in 1992, and All State beat my wife out of fixing her car saying their policyholder was hit from behind so they weren't liable, screw the police report to the contrary.
So there are good witches and bad witches, and next time I have an automotive or other accident, I'm not calling Auntie Em, I'm calling a lawyer first!
When ever the other guys insurance is really nice, I'd probably feel I left money on the table?
You did the right thing.
And besides, there is always someone who says they did better!
I hope your situation gets resolved quickly! Good luck!
You summed it up perfectly about the lawyer thing! That is exactly how I feel.
Yes, as mentioned in my first post I did/do have health insurance, and it is indeed their job to cover the medical bills. HOWEVER, since the accident was not my fault, my health insurance expected to get their money back (naturally) eventually... here is where my lawyer's advice became VERY useful and I would have had NO CLUE about what to do without their help...
Check out this email my lawyer sent me at the time:
=======================================
Hospital Bills & Health Insurance...
Hello David,
Please read this message in its entirety: At this point what you need to do is to call your Health Insurance (phone number for customer service is listed on your card) and ask them why they haven’t covered the payments for the **** Hospital, Ambulance, and ER Doctor bills. You and I both know that this may have been held back because your Health Insurance information might have been withheld from the providers at that time, but PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS THIS OR THE FACTS OF THE ACCIDENT OR CLAIM WITH THEM. If asked, just say “I am not certain”. In order to have them cover the bill you will need to get a voluntary reason from them for why these bills were not paid or covered. If they give no reason for non-payment then ask that they expedite payment as you have been receiving bills that should have been covered by them.
PS- to sort out any confusion: It is good that they did not pay for the bills before a settlement was reached because the Defendant’s Insurance would not have honored any bills covered by your health insurance. Now that an agreement for settlement has been reached it is important that your Health Insurance is NOT made aware of the settlement or the Defendant’s liability so that these bills will be paid. Once they have covered these bills, then I will ask that they waive their right to re-imbursement in full, by arguing that you have not been “made whole” by the amount of the settlement reached.
The only reason I am not able to make this phone call for you is because our representation of you might tip them off to the third party claim that has been made for your injuries with the Defendants Insurance, and they therefore might reject all payments. Please know that it is your Health Insurance’s duty however to front payment for any allowed providers seen, regardless of whom is at fault, until the party at fault has actually tendered funds. This is an important call, as $13,000.00 in bills that could be eventually waived all depend on the Health Insurance covering these bills in the first place. I wish I could do this for you, but I do not want to weaken your chances. Normally your Health Insurance would have covered these bills by now, but since I settled your case so quickly there will otherwise be a great deal of waiting time at this point. I only suggest this in the first place because I know you are eager to finalize your case out soon. If you have any questions at all regarding this please do not hesitate to call me, otherwise please respond that you fully understand this message in its entirety and that you agree, or disagree, to make this call on your own behalf in order to expedite the finalization of your claim. Thank you.
Sincerely,
************
=======================================
Now for the people that say a lawyer is not necessary.................. I call BS!
BTW, I made that call and it all happened as the lawyer expected... which is the only reason I got some money back for P&S.
Some good info in that post thank you.
About the 3X rule of thumb, it worked in my case, and in most all cased my lawyer handled in the past 25 years... but ok, you are right it never works...
Hey, let's leave it at that, you think an attorney is useless, and I think an attorney is priceless if 2 or more ppl are involved in an accident with injuries, if you don't want to get screwed deeply. I am not saying you will automatically get screwed without a lawyer, I am merely saying that chances are you won't get the maximum amount you could have gotten, or in the worst case scenario, you'll have bills to your name when it's all said an done...
And to clarify, I was not out to make money out of this ordeal, and I had made that clear to my lawyer from the very beginning, but I wanted to make sure I would not have bills to my name at the end... which I would have without my attorney. That's the bottom line in my case, and I can't see how it would be much different for most ppl's similar cases...
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:rof:
Do you seriously think that insurance companies' main goal is to support their customers?
Sorry bro, I know you work for them and probably feel attacked, but the bottom line is that insurance companies are there to make money, and making money will always be more important to them than to make sure they are nice to you and properly covered.
Yes, some insurance companies are better than others (in my case State Farm was awesome), but comon... come back down to reality plz...
Pacific Specialty Insurance
DON'T USE THEM!
I switched to AAA right after this mess was resolved.
I now also have the following coverage:
- uninsured $100k
- underinsured $100k
- MEDPAY (medical pay, up to $5k) very good to have
It would have saved a lot of trouble had I had these at the time...
Good write-up David. This is what worked for you and the key was to not say anything until you secured legal representation. Well done!
Our resident insurance adjuster also makes valuable points. There are times when individuals can get 100% of what they need to make them whole again without a lawyer.
Here in NH, regardless of who is at fault, the health insurance pays. It is up to them to determine from the reports filed if this was an accident. If determined to be, they send a form to the house asking for details in the event a third party can be sought for payment of the medical expenses. When you fill out the form and mail it back, they place a lien on your claim with the other insured party so that, when you receive a settlement, they get reimbursed for any related payments.
Now, what a lawyer can do for you in this case is to negotiate the amounts or sometimes even negate them. However, with enough savy and armed with the proper terminology, you yourself are also capable of negotiating as well.
What a lawyer does for us in these situations is to bring experience and knowledge to the table along with the proper key words to trigger reactions from the other side in your/his favor. Anything the lawyer does can be done by the victim in an accident.
I do agree with David regarding payout. Insurance companies are profitable businesses. They are interested in paying out the least they can to settle any claim.
However, I also take issue with anyone who seeks more than the 100% that it takes to make you whole again. In my opinion, it is morally wrong to expect to profit from any accident. I'm not saying David profited in this case, not at all! I'm saying that people who expect more than what they had prior to the accident are those that drive up our insurance rates.
My wife is, after almost 3 years, still negotiating her own settlement with an accident claim. The company she has the claim against has tried some interesting tactics but as you can see, she is in no hurry to settle. Each step, she says "I'll get back to you." then seeks the proper method to handle that situation along with the key words to trigger the response she is looking for. One of the things that company did was to try and settle close to Christmas the first year, likely thinking that "They might take the money and run thinking this could be a great Christmas!" She didn't bite on that one.
Now, if this was State Farm she was dealing with, we'd have likely had a settlement that was agreeable a long time ago. She isn't looking for any extra money. She'll be lucky to get even enough to make her whole again. The main issue is future medication becuase this accident caused a permanent injury that will require at least one prescription for the rest of her life. They are balking at paying that out and expect our insurance to continue to pay for it. It's a difficult situation.
I had an accident, rear-ended, last year two weeks after getting my new Tacoma. The kid who hit me, thank GOD, had State Farm. They came out the following Wed. and wrote a quote and I had a check for property damage on Friday. Now, it was WAY more than it cost me to fix it. I never asked for ANY amount outside of "Please make my two-week old truck new again?" I believe that because I did not get a lawyer involved and I also did not visit a doctor or even go to the hospital, they simply over quoted and paid me a lot more than the damages were to be sure I'd be happy. I told the guy it was too much but he stated this was their SOP and all "possible" affected parts are listed and valid. Of course, I simply bought the parts and fixed the truck myself. I guess the rest was my labor fee?
So, sometimes a lawyer is the only choice, sometimes a lawyer isn't the best choice and sometimes, a lawyer isn't ever needed. If you don't have enough knowledge to be sure you are "made whole" after an accident, then a lawyer, or at least a consultation, is likely your best choice.
BTW, it also helps that I sit across the room from the corporate Risk manager who is REALLY DAMNED GOOD at claims and getting what is deserved. He has won 11 court cases for himself by representing himself. I hope I never get on his bad side!
Our resident insurance adjuster also makes valuable points. There are times when individuals can get 100% of what they need to make them whole again without a lawyer.
Here in NH, regardless of who is at fault, the health insurance pays. It is up to them to determine from the reports filed if this was an accident. If determined to be, they send a form to the house asking for details in the event a third party can be sought for payment of the medical expenses. When you fill out the form and mail it back, they place a lien on your claim with the other insured party so that, when you receive a settlement, they get reimbursed for any related payments.
Now, what a lawyer can do for you in this case is to negotiate the amounts or sometimes even negate them. However, with enough savy and armed with the proper terminology, you yourself are also capable of negotiating as well.
What a lawyer does for us in these situations is to bring experience and knowledge to the table along with the proper key words to trigger reactions from the other side in your/his favor. Anything the lawyer does can be done by the victim in an accident.
I do agree with David regarding payout. Insurance companies are profitable businesses. They are interested in paying out the least they can to settle any claim.
However, I also take issue with anyone who seeks more than the 100% that it takes to make you whole again. In my opinion, it is morally wrong to expect to profit from any accident. I'm not saying David profited in this case, not at all! I'm saying that people who expect more than what they had prior to the accident are those that drive up our insurance rates.
My wife is, after almost 3 years, still negotiating her own settlement with an accident claim. The company she has the claim against has tried some interesting tactics but as you can see, she is in no hurry to settle. Each step, she says "I'll get back to you." then seeks the proper method to handle that situation along with the key words to trigger the response she is looking for. One of the things that company did was to try and settle close to Christmas the first year, likely thinking that "They might take the money and run thinking this could be a great Christmas!" She didn't bite on that one.
Now, if this was State Farm she was dealing with, we'd have likely had a settlement that was agreeable a long time ago. She isn't looking for any extra money. She'll be lucky to get even enough to make her whole again. The main issue is future medication becuase this accident caused a permanent injury that will require at least one prescription for the rest of her life. They are balking at paying that out and expect our insurance to continue to pay for it. It's a difficult situation.
I had an accident, rear-ended, last year two weeks after getting my new Tacoma. The kid who hit me, thank GOD, had State Farm. They came out the following Wed. and wrote a quote and I had a check for property damage on Friday. Now, it was WAY more than it cost me to fix it. I never asked for ANY amount outside of "Please make my two-week old truck new again?" I believe that because I did not get a lawyer involved and I also did not visit a doctor or even go to the hospital, they simply over quoted and paid me a lot more than the damages were to be sure I'd be happy. I told the guy it was too much but he stated this was their SOP and all "possible" affected parts are listed and valid. Of course, I simply bought the parts and fixed the truck myself. I guess the rest was my labor fee?
So, sometimes a lawyer is the only choice, sometimes a lawyer isn't the best choice and sometimes, a lawyer isn't ever needed. If you don't have enough knowledge to be sure you are "made whole" after an accident, then a lawyer, or at least a consultation, is likely your best choice.
BTW, it also helps that I sit across the room from the corporate Risk manager who is REALLY DAMNED GOOD at claims and getting what is deserved. He has won 11 court cases for himself by representing himself. I hope I never get on his bad side!
Thanks Eric, great post.
I agree that if there are no injuries involved, and it's a classic case of rear-end -or similar "straight forward" accident with only property damage-, I would not call a lawyer... I actually had a case like this 7-8 years ago when someone crossed a solid white line without checking their dead angle and crushed my poor car between his and the curb... the car was used and I had paid $4500 for it... the other guy said I was on my cellphone not paying attention... I took it to small claims and won in 3 minutes (I did not own a cell phone at the time LOL so the judge did not like the guy's excuse).
Anyway, in my previous posts, I tried to make sure to always mention "in case of an accident involving 2 or more parties and injuries", I personally would strongly recommend a lawyer unless you really know what you`re doing. Again, there are LOTS of little things that the lawyer will do that most ppl would have no idea about, me included, and even though my case was supposed to be straight forward (the other party admitted their fault) I still saw way too many opportunities to screw myself up to know I will call my lawyer if such a situation presents itself again in the future (plz NO more!!!!)
I also had a friend at work who went through a similar accident and handled it on his own... he happily signed the settlement 3 weeks later with $5k in his pocket, thinking he had saved some money by not getting a lawyer only to discover 6 months later that his injury had not really healed and he was screwed for the rest of his life. My lawyer on the other hand made sure I did an MRI a month after the accident to double check that my shoulder was indeed fine...
Could I have scheduled an MRI appointment on my own? sure... would I have done it? no.... but again, my lawyer knew that the MRI would be covered in case of this or this, and there were also other options like this or that to reduce the cost of the MRI or even make it go away all together by doing this or that... (I`ll spare you the details of that crap...) I had no idea of course lol.
Having a good lawyer on your side is a precious piece of mind that I really needed after the accident... and you can't put a price on that piece of mind imo.
My last comment: in a lot of cases, you would not know if a lawyer was really necessary before you signed a paper and realize later on you got screwed and you should not have signed it... so while you may think you don't need a lawyer, you would often only realize you actually did need one after it is too late!
Anyway, the goal of this thread was not to debate whether lawyers are good or bad or to promote the use of lawyers for anything and everything... I am not a pro-laywer activist by any means lol, and I actually think the US has WAY too many attorneys and way too many ppl using attorneys for all kinds of BS reasons... however, I just wanted to share my own experience, and if it can help someone in the future, than this whole thread was worth it.
I agree that if there are no injuries involved, and it's a classic case of rear-end -or similar "straight forward" accident with only property damage-, I would not call a lawyer... I actually had a case like this 7-8 years ago when someone crossed a solid white line without checking their dead angle and crushed my poor car between his and the curb... the car was used and I had paid $4500 for it... the other guy said I was on my cellphone not paying attention... I took it to small claims and won in 3 minutes (I did not own a cell phone at the time LOL so the judge did not like the guy's excuse).
Anyway, in my previous posts, I tried to make sure to always mention "in case of an accident involving 2 or more parties and injuries", I personally would strongly recommend a lawyer unless you really know what you`re doing. Again, there are LOTS of little things that the lawyer will do that most ppl would have no idea about, me included, and even though my case was supposed to be straight forward (the other party admitted their fault) I still saw way too many opportunities to screw myself up to know I will call my lawyer if such a situation presents itself again in the future (plz NO more!!!!)
I also had a friend at work who went through a similar accident and handled it on his own... he happily signed the settlement 3 weeks later with $5k in his pocket, thinking he had saved some money by not getting a lawyer only to discover 6 months later that his injury had not really healed and he was screwed for the rest of his life. My lawyer on the other hand made sure I did an MRI a month after the accident to double check that my shoulder was indeed fine...
Could I have scheduled an MRI appointment on my own? sure... would I have done it? no.... but again, my lawyer knew that the MRI would be covered in case of this or this, and there were also other options like this or that to reduce the cost of the MRI or even make it go away all together by doing this or that... (I`ll spare you the details of that crap...) I had no idea of course lol.
Having a good lawyer on your side is a precious piece of mind that I really needed after the accident... and you can't put a price on that piece of mind imo.
My last comment: in a lot of cases, you would not know if a lawyer was really necessary before you signed a paper and realize later on you got screwed and you should not have signed it... so while you may think you don't need a lawyer, you would often only realize you actually did need one after it is too late!
Anyway, the goal of this thread was not to debate whether lawyers are good or bad or to promote the use of lawyers for anything and everything... I am not a pro-laywer activist by any means lol, and I actually think the US has WAY too many attorneys and way too many ppl using attorneys for all kinds of BS reasons... however, I just wanted to share my own experience, and if it can help someone in the future, than this whole thread was worth it.
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Norm
Senior FZ6 Advisor
This is a great thread. Thanks Wavex (David) for sharing what was obviously a difficult time in your life. FZ6inNH (Eric) really rounds out this discussion perfectly. As a practicing physician I admit I have no love loss for lawyers. I thank the higher life forces that I have never been sued but many friends have suffered through long malpractice cases. Nevertheless there are times when lawyers are invaluable and one in particular changed my life a thousand fold for the better when a group practice I was in (and was cheating me out of 2/3 of my salary) tried to restrict my new practice when I left and sue me for $1,000,000. I paid him about $4000 total and never paid a dime to the old place and started a new practice, which he helped get going, without a hitch. Could I have done this myself? Maybe, but I did not have the sophistication/tools to do so. If one read's David's initial account, a masterpiece, blow by blow diary of his difficulties negotiating a slippery slope of medical and property bills and their ultimate resolution, it is clear that he was overmatched by the process...as perhaps 95% of us might be. I believe he made a great move in acquiring a lawyer. My proof? His satisfaction is palpable by everyone reading the thread.
One of my very best friends lives in Kingston, NH. He has personally settled 3 injury cases himself (he's a builder/contractor). One involved a neighbor's dog who bit his daughter, in one he was rear ended, and one involved his business. I believe he did very well in all three, probably better than involving a lawyer who would have taken a portion. But my friend, despite having no education beyond high school, has real world smarts that are far beyond many (like myself). Like Eric's wife, he was very patient, took his time (months to years in one case), did his research, and has a lawyer friend who could give him tips from time to time.
It is also generous of our FZ6 insurance adjuster to bring us into his world. It is useful information. We're all here to help each other, on the bike and off.:thumbup:
One of my very best friends lives in Kingston, NH. He has personally settled 3 injury cases himself (he's a builder/contractor). One involved a neighbor's dog who bit his daughter, in one he was rear ended, and one involved his business. I believe he did very well in all three, probably better than involving a lawyer who would have taken a portion. But my friend, despite having no education beyond high school, has real world smarts that are far beyond many (like myself). Like Eric's wife, he was very patient, took his time (months to years in one case), did his research, and has a lawyer friend who could give him tips from time to time.
It is also generous of our FZ6 insurance adjuster to bring us into his world. It is useful information. We're all here to help each other, on the bike and off.:thumbup:
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necrotimus
Stop looking at my title!
To reiterate the most important point in this thread one more time:
Make sure you are properly insured and have enough coverage before you have an accident
Make sure you are properly insured and have enough coverage before you have an accident
I called my agent to verify and found that I am covered in the following ways.
100/300/50, 1000 medical, 100/300 um 100comp ded. and 500 coll ded. annual premium =$241.
a rider totaling $1500 for aftermarket mods
a second rider for all gear for another $1000
Towing and rental in the event I am totally broke down and need to get home.
:thumbup:
100/300/50, 1000 medical, 100/300 um 100comp ded. and 500 coll ded. annual premium =$241.
a rider totaling $1500 for aftermarket mods
a second rider for all gear for another $1000
Towing and rental in the event I am totally broke down and need to get home.
:thumbup:
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But what about underinsured or noninsured motorist? Or is that in the 100/300/50 somewhere?
The point was made from myself and other members, make sure you have great insurance before getting on that bike.
When dealing with insurance claims and adjusters, unless you have a lot of expereince, which fortuanately most people don't, you are pretty much an amatuer. They are the professionals, this is what they do for a living. Getting a lawyer is just leveling the playing field. Yes, it's going to cost you money, but you know you aren't going to get screwed.
No different than buying a car or motorcycle for the very first time. Unless you have done this before, you are pretty much at the mercy of the sales people and you have no idea if you are getting a great deal or a bad one. Same goes for Wavex's case.
Thanks to all four (4) of you to bring this thread back on track Norm, very well said! :rockon:
On a side note, I just got home from work tonight, and found the internet and HD TV cable all setup!!! My first post from my new house! :cheer:
cheers all!
and tonight, going to a Pink Floyd (really good tribute band) concert with Cali_Rider... life is good :wav:
Norm, very well said! :rockon:On a side note, I just got home from work tonight, and found the internet and HD TV cable all setup!!! My first post from my new house! :cheer:
cheers all!
and tonight, going to a Pink Floyd (really good tribute band) concert with Cali_Rider... life is good :wav:
Cali rider
Well-Known Member
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And it rocked!
rsw81
Keep it Kosher
Thanks to all four (4) of you to bring this thread back on track
On a side note, I just got home from work tonight, and found the internet and HD TV cable all setup!!! My first post from my new house! :cheer:
cheers all!
and tonight, going to a Pink Floyd (really good tribute band) concert with Cali_Rider... life is good :wav:
So when's poker night then?
Wish I would have known you guys were going to this, totally would have gone with you!
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I don't know about Poker night yet... my kid's temporary room is right next to the living room until we paint her room, so until then Poker night is on hold
The concert was awesome! I got extra tickets at the last minute from my bro in law... so we did not know we were going til the day before
Next time!
