Chain is throwing a lot of red dust

[erburtt]

Okay, so I'm a bit confused here... I replaced my stock chain last season when it had around 40,000 km on it, I was seeing red dust periodically on surrounding parts and under the sprocket cover. I did consider the sprocket spline shaft itself, but ruled it out.

So I installed a new x-ring chain, cant remember the manufacturer, but a decent enough one. I might have had it a tad bit tight for the first 200 km or so, but since then its been adjusted correctly, cleaned and lubed like every 2000 km or so depending on when I got the chance.

I put it away freshly cleaned, lubed and adjusted for the winter. This season I got probably 1000 km in before it seemed quite loose and I was seeing the red dust again, I adjusted, cleaned, and lubed once again and all seemed fine. I recently went on a bit of a tour in the states, did 1800 km in around 3 days, haven't ridden in rain since I got the bike out of storage and it was beautiful weather for the whole trip. Well now there's red dust everywhere, the chain slack seems a bit loose again, I can safely say the red dust is for sure coming from the chain... I just don't know what I've done wrong, before I knew anything about maintenance I ran my GS500F for 10,000 km without touching the chain in rain, dirt, everything you can think of... Never had an issue. Now that I'm religiously taking care of my chain its seemingly failing faster than ever. Do I need to drop the $250+ on a D.I.D chain? are they really that much better in quality?

 

[major tom]

Remind me not to use the chain lube you use! What is it by the way?!

 

[SandyN]

I've just done a 36000 km service and checked the sprockets which I have replaced. The front sprocket had red dust on it, and when I checked, the nut was loose! I could undo it with my fingers. It was just the lock washer holding it in place. Obviously the movement between nut and washer caused the dust.

My chain is still fine as I lube regularly. If it is your chain then one of the possible sources could be from between the roller and barrel; it should not be from the pin which is sealed by the x-rings, which hopefully you have not damaged.

Do you perhaps over-clean your chain and do you make sure your lube gets in under the rollers?

 

[FinalImpact]

Remind me not to use the chain lube you use! What is it by the way?!

^^ Exactly!

Although, one does have to wonder what the cleaning product is too! That said, I have only found ONE PRODUCT which even lasts for 500 miles. Most are done and gone at the 300 mile mark. If I had to guess, your lube interval is too long and lube is GONE (not protecting the chain) way before the your 1000km interval. LUBE it at 500Km!

Also, If the cleaner is not evaporating and GONE before the lube is applied, it may be dissolving the the lube making the new lube fail.

Miles - Km
300 = 482km
400 = 634km
500 = 804km
621 = 1000km

 

[Motogiro]

It almost sounds like lube is not getting under the rollers as mentioned^^^^^

Clean the chain with some kerosene, warm the entire chain with a blow dryer or a ride and give it a good lubing with motor oil. Lubing right after heating will help get lubrication into small tight locations as the chain cools. Leave it loaded with the oil until it cools. I use a heavier lube that goes on pretty wet and then thickens as it cools which minimizes fling but I clean the chain and re-lube more often. Every other cleaning I give my rollers some Tri-Flow Teflon type lube which is light weight oil that should get under the rollers and then the Chain Wax.

 

[Motogiro]

[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] What was that lube you talked about...Dumond?

 

[erburtt]

Maybe I'm waiting a bit long between intervals, this is the chain wax I use

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-74920-Chain-Wax-Aerosol/dp/B0012TZ1RU"]http://www.amazon.com/Maxima-74920-Chain-Wax-Aerosol/dp/B0012TZ1RU[/ame]

To clean the chain I use a spiral brush and an o-ring safe aerosol can of cleaner, I usually go for a ride to heat the chain up, spray it down with the cleaner, remove the cover, chain guide, and rear hugger, then run it through the spiral brush a bunch of times, wipe it down best I can, then go for another ride to warm it up again, spray it down liberally with the chain wax aiming it into the joints, then let it sit for the rest of the evening to let the wax setup

 

[FinalImpact]

[MENTION=15974]FinalImpact[/MENTION] What was that lube you talked about...Dumond?

This product; Review is here: DUMONDE Tech, BHP Chain Lubrication & O-Ring Conditioner

If you wish to get some miles out that chain, It needs DRENCHED until OIL IS FLYING OUT EVERYWHERE! -->> This would be great use as it smells good when it burns on the exhaust! Ask How I know! lol

Thanks Cliff!

Forewarning - I need more miles before making a statement about long term durability but in the interim I have this to share.
** EDIT: It'll go 450 miles w/out intermediate application

If you have done everything in your power to reduce vibrations like:
* New plugs of proper gap 0.028" max
* Trimmed Spark Plug wires at the caps insertion point
* Engine oil is fresh
* Valve adjust & TB sync
* Rear wheel is properly aligned (sprocket) and tires balanced & true

As a final measure, try this product!
DUMONDE Tech, BHP Chain Lubrication & O-Ring Conditioner

Pros:
+ Drive Chain vibration has been neutralized to ZERO!
+ It feels like free horsepower!!! Never before I have seen a lube that had this effect!
+ Its in a squeeze bottle. It goes where you put it.
+ It smells good when it burns on the header! lol (Excess application)

Cons:
- Its easy to apply too much from the manufactures bottle.
- In excess, it runs off chain and swing arm.
EDIT: - IT FLIES OFF in EXCESS

Thoughts:
Transfer it to a smaller container with tip allowing better control of volume dispensed.
I'll post again with a follow up regarding durability and miles before applying, dirt cling and all that. Its currently at 180 miles.

Filler comments:
I'd really like to say my bike is vibration free and runs like a top (it does), but when this chain lube removed an invisible layer of vibrations that I assumed to be inherent in the bike - I was shocked and impressed!!! If it goes 300 running as smooth (vibration free) I'll be sold. If its still hanging on at 400 miles its WIN over all products I've tried to date!

FWIW: I've been using the "top rated/reviewed" spray lubes which all failed to go an honest 300 miles without succumbing to noise, vibrations, and the obvious "dry chain" indicating they don't stand a prayer of going 500 miles. So after every product is gone, I try something new in hopes it will hold up better.
Again, I was shocked to find a product which really removed another layer of vibrations! Its like coasting in a car now with no perceivable change from power applied to coasting. Its just smooth and queit!

It looks like this!

EDIT: Round 3, (** insert heavy sigh here **), Cleaned the chain, rode the bike, heated the chain plus it was 85F outside at the time, oiled an old tooth brush and applied it to the chain. Again - easy to get too much. And in Excess it flies off. Its on the bike but not on the rider. I'll make one more attempt at applying less as I don't like oil on my tire or exhaust!

EDIT: Round 4; Use a syringe and blunt tip applicator!
I purchased these but the tips were to big for this, too much volume.
*) "Pack of 10 x 10 ml Industrial Syringes with 15G x 1-1/2" Blunt Tip Fill Needle and plastic cover"

+ Either of these and likely smaller quantities!
*) 25 Ga. Red, 1.5" Precision Stainless Steel Dispensing Tip, 50/box Part Number: EFD 7018339
*) 22 Ga. Blue, 1.5" Precision Stainless Steel Dispensing Tip, 50/box Part Number: EFD 7018266

OR - an oral cleaning syringe - meant for h20 only. May not Last long tho.

Just be sure to get a setup that locks the tip to the syringe others wise it may shoot off, like these "Tips.


EDIT #2: This WORKS WELL!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I tried using chain wax years ago on my old bike and had the exact same issue. The chain needs to warmed up, etc (which I did NOT do). The chain was not getting the wax/lube and was literally rusting from the inside out, flinging out internal rust.

I pitched the wax and went back to standard chain lube. Its not nearly a PIA to be applied.

"Original Bike Spirits" used to be sold under the Honda name brand for years;

Chain Lube - Original Bike Spirits

It should be noted that it will NOT fling out, but does seem to need to be applied more often (than the stuff that does fling out)..

 

[Red Wazp]

I tried using chain wax years ago on my old bike and had the exact same issue. The chain needs to warmed up, etc (which I did NOT do). The chain was not getting the wax/lube and was literally rusting from the inside out, flinging out internal rust.

I pitched the wax and went back to standard chain lube. Its not nearly a PIA to be applied.

"Original Bike Spirits" used to be sold under the Honda name brand for years;

Chain Lube - Original Bike Spirits

It should be noted that it will NOT fling out, but does seem to need to be applied more often (than the stuff that does fling out)..

+100 Chain Wax sucks, throw away that can and buy this stuff. I actually do buy the Honda Chain lube that has moly ( I believe it's the same or close).

Just like others mentioned clean with Kerosene wash with soapy water, ride five miles and spray lube on a warm dry chain. Relube every 300 miles and big clean around 1000 miles.

Been doing this on my 990 with factory chain for over 22,000 miles so far.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+100 Chain Wax sucks, throw away that can and buy this stuff. I actually do buy the Honda Chain lube that has moly ( I believe it's the same or close).

Just like others mentioned clean with Kerosene wash with soapy water, ride five miles and spray lube on a warm dry chain. Relube every 300 miles and big clean around 1000 miles.

Been doing this on my 990 with factory chain for over 22,000 miles so far.

I have what I think is the same product as yours, Honda HP, chain lube with white graphite. Its seems to work better but with that, it did fling a bit. I still have some left but have just given in and lube the chain a little more often with the "Original".

I just washed the bike two days ago and with that, a good chain cleaning. I use Maxima chain cleaner (15.5 oz can) with an aluminum Grunge brush.

Took several passes and rinses but eventually got it spotless. With the bike blower/dryer, I use that over the chain to get that nice and dry, then lube..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I actually do buy the Honda Chain lube that has moly ( I believe it's the same or close).

Been doing this on my 990 with factory chain for over 22,000 miles so far.

Impressive mileage!

How badly (if at all) does that chain lube fling?

The HP lube with white graphite I have, is probably 15 years old. New products come out and I wouldn't mind finding another lube that works better but without the mess.

 

[FinalImpact]

Mine will easily make the 22,000 mile mark.

That liquid im using; bottle spout is like a firehouse when you need a tiny sprinkle. When applied at a metered volume it stays put and lasts. You see it wick into the pin via the rollers gap.

 

[erburtt]

Mine will easily make the 22,000 mile mark.

WHA???? you're saying aluminum handle nylon bristle or some kind of aluminum bristle grunge brush? If the later, it might explain loss of O-rings in the chain as its too invasive...

That liquid im using; bottle spout is like a firehouse when you need a tiny sprinkle. When applied at a metered volume it stays put and lasts. You see it whick into the pin via the rollars gap.

I think you were reading Scott's post thinking it was mine... I have been using a nylon spiral brush thing that wraps around the chain

Looks like I'll be looking for some different lube instead of wax... I hate fling though so so much, maybe I'm a tad bit OCD with how clean I try and keep everything

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

WHA???? you're saying aluminum handle nylon bristle or some kind of aluminum bristle grunge brush? If the later, it might explain loss of O-rings in the chain as its too invasive..

That's NOT what I posted...

Its an aluminum Grunge Brush, the bristles (NYLON) are the same as the cheaper plastic handled tool, it just won't break..

I'm sure this tool is faulty as well although I've been cleaning chains with it and the plastic style for at least 15 years W/O issue. Before that, for 25 years, I used a regular parts bristle brush, I'm sure that's bad too, although I never had an issue with a chain.

Why this current x-ring chain is not holding up, IDK. I'm sure you'll let me know.

BTW, the air forks still are working great, holding air just fine, not a drop of oil...


5-5-15. It should be noted that Final Impact, as a moderator, deleted an entire post (super large font, SA post, taking my post out of context, (not directed at him either), apparently trying to act civil) .

I am un-subscribed from this thread so I won't have to defend my posts from such ignorance.

Good luck with your chain.

 

[Red Wazp]

Impressive mileage!

How badly (if at all) does that chain lube fling?

[/B].

It's the cleanest I have found but some will always find a way to the rim. I hate chains, everything should have a drive shaft. 4oz of gear oil every 20,000 miles and you are done

 

[SandyN]

After ruining one chain by over cleaning it I now never clean my chain. I have found that Fluid Film or transmission oil mixed with CV joint grease work as a good cleaner and alternate this with chain wax. After applying the FF or transmission oil I wipe the chain clean with a rag. Oil is a great cleaner!

 

[payneib]

Am I the only one that noticed the chain was changed separate to the sprockets?

 

[SandyN]

Am I the only one that noticed the chain was changed separate to the sprockets?

As I have posted; I have replaced sprockets but not chain as the chain wear/stretch is still well within limits set by Yamaha and accepted limits (1.5% stretch). I don't see this as being a problem.

 

[payneib]

Let me just get this in the right order (sorry, got lost in the bun fight). You had sufficient chain wear to change the chain first, with some red dust. Then changed the sprockets and found your front sprocket nut was lose, at which point the red dust stopped?