Build your own Manometer for Throttle Body Sync!

[FIZZER6]

For anyone building these, I bought a length of case molding at Home Depot that had channels in it. I glued the lines into the channels. Made for a very nice clean and slick looking piece without any fasteners going over the lines.

Sounds nice. Can you post a picture to help others? :thumbup:

 

[hk_fz6_05]

Well I finally finished my setup - it's upstairs with the oil settling (I hope)

Ended up manufacturing my own vacuum restrictors from aluminium knitting needle as mentioned in the link in my previous post and thought I'd post what I learned from that.

First let me say this: If you can go out and buy vac restrictors, do so. You'll get a more homogenous product and save yourself some grief (and grease ).

My setup was limited in that I don't have room or power for a vertical table drill so I had to make do with a vice and a hand held drill. Also I had no experience drilling metal in any appreciable thickness before.

KEY LESSONS> Go slow. Use lube. Lots of lube. Go slow. Keep stopping every few millimeters and clean out the drill.

Process> Cut some lengths of 2cm from the knitting needle with my dremel.
Started out just drilling straight into the metal on full power and within a few minutes had run the drill down to less than half it's length. Repeated going slower with a new drill but no lube and broke it in half. Then started in on some shorter pieces with lots of lube and a new drill at low rpms and steadily increased the size of pieces til 2cms.
After I got four 2cm drilled out pieces I slightly tapered the ends for ease of insertion into the tubing which is 4mm internal diameter.
The lube I used was a pretty bog standard sewing machine lube but I've heard that WD40 and kerosene work as well. No need for specialty products. The drills were standard metal drills tool
My setup doesn't have rpm control, so I just went slow as I could. Online recommendations are for speeds around 500rpm.

Notes>
Longer restrictors means a greater level of restriction though I can't supply a formula for that (anyone?) and also decreases the amount of variation in length of the drilled out cylinder if it's not perfectly centered* (as mine weren't). I stopped at 2cm length because it was getting difficult keeping things centered.
It's the cylinder drilled out that counts so be careful not to damage the wall of that cylinder when tapering the ends - it doesn' matter if the tapering is uneven as long as the restrictor fits into the tubing airtight.
I really wish I could find a formula for calculating the pressure differential over the restrictor so I could figure out if the relation to the length of the cylinder is linear or logarithmic or something (impacts on how much the maximum percentage difference in length due to off center drilling means in terms of differences in restriction - I think in the end the small differences in the homemade restrictors have a negligable impact compared to the inherent lack of precision in the tuning process).

*A perfectly centered drilled out cylinder is equal in length to the restrictor. Worst case scenario the cylinder goes diagonally through a rectangle with sides the length and diameter of the restrictor (assuming no curvature of the drill). Pythagoras gives us
c=sqrt(dia^2+length^2)
and the percentage difference from best to worst case scenario
Diff = (c - length)/length
which for 5mm diameter and 1,5cm and 2cm length restrictors gives a percentage difference of
Diff(1,5cm) = 5,5%
Diff(2cm) = 3,1%


Hope it helps someone - it was an interesting process and I learned a lot.

 

[FIZZER6]

^ Wow. I applaud your dedication to making your own restrictors but not sure if that's really worth it to save $20 to have a set of them shipped from USA or Hong Kong or wherever.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

nah I know. But if you don't do these things when opportunity arises you never learn

also getting stuff from outside the EU takes forabsolutelyever.

PS: Also still remains to be seen if they actually work, but I'm optimistic

 

[cheyuen]

I just wanted to chip in and post my experience. First, thanks for the write up. Good explanation and easy build of the manometer.

My throttle bodies were pretty far out of whack but I failed to take a picture. I was amazed at how sensitive the adjusting screws are. You could practically breathe on them to make an adjustment.

I got the idle adjusted to fluctuate between 1320 and 1380. I was able to get everything perfectly level at idle but it would go way out of whack at 4000 rpm. After a lot of patience letting the levels settle after each adjustment, I ended up with a compromise of levels at idle and 4000 rpm. At idle, 2 and 3 are elevated. At 4000 rpm, 1 and 4 are elevated. I've attached my results.

If anyone has any insight on whether this is good/bad/acceptable, I would love to hear it.

On a final note, this has made a huge difference in how smooth the bike is.
- I never noticed before making the adjustment how much I fought the throttle at low revs. The bike felt like it would jump or stutter in slow speed situations like parking lots which led to a lot of working the clutch.
- Interestingly, my shifts are much smoother after the adjustment. I assume that the improved throttle response has made it easier to rev match while shifting.
- As others have reported, the vibrations have subsided significantly which has made riding much more enjoyable.
- I imagine that I would get much better fuel efficiency now, except that I'm enjoying the higher RPMs so much!

 

[hk_fz6_05]

well not being an expert I can say that I would love to have that kind of result
mine are all over the place at the moment - I have to make an adjustment and then go away and wait for things to settle because the fluid will be displaced into the entire tube for numbers 2 and 3.
Just to be absolutely sure I have gone ahead and ordered some vacuum restrictors online instead of my homemade ones, although I feel pretty sure they work (at least they seem to in numbers 1 and 4) .
Pretty sure this bike hasn't had this done since being bought in 2005. :spank:

 

[hk_fz6_05]

Ok so I need help - my manom is built but I keep getting wildly fluctuating levels - I warm up the engine. Turn it off. Hook up the lines. And the first few seconds it looks like it's supposed to but then bubbles work themselves in everywhere (pic attached). Help?

I've ordered and installed commercial vac restrictors w/o any change (somewhat satisfied about that), my lines of thought are these:
a. there's a leaky seal somewhere
b. the oil isn't heavy enough
c. as you can see I ended up with two different colour lines and I suspect the green might be just slightly softer than the clear, maybe, just maybe that is affecting things as well (but I get bubbles in all lines)

so feedback would be nice and also what oil would be heavier than 2 stroke like I have in mine?

thanks

 

[FIZZER6]

Ok so I need help - my manom is built but I keep getting wildly fluctuating levels - I warm up the engine. Turn it off. Hook up the lines. And the first few seconds it looks like it's supposed to but then bubbles work themselves in everywhere (pic attached). Help?

I've ordered and installed commercial vac restrictors w/o any change (somewhat satisfied about that), my lines of thought are these:
a. there's a leaky seal somewhere
b. the oil isn't heavy enough
c. as you can see I ended up with two different colour lines and I suspect the green might be just slightly softer than the clear, maybe, just maybe that is affecting things as well (but I get bubbles in all lines)

so feedback would be nice and also what oil would be heavier than 2 stroke like I have in mine?

thanks

1. Are you warming the engine up before connecting the manometer?
2. When I do mine initially I get bubbles in a few lines, I let the bike idle, the fluid levels out and stays steady in each tube, just bouncing up and down about 1/4".
3. It is likely a leak or having 2 kinds of tubes could be to blame. Do any of the tubes collapse (flatten out) under vacuum?

 

[hk_fz6_05]

1. Are you warming the engine up before connecting the manometer?
2. When I do mine initially I get bubbles in a few lines, I let the bike idle, the fluid levels out and stays steady in each tube, just bouncing up and down about 1/4".
3. It is likely a leak or having 2 kinds of tubes could be to blame. Do any of the tubes collapse (flatten out) under vacuum?

1. Yes
2. Initially on mine things are fine (the lines climb and seem steady at differing levels for a short time) and the especially one or two of them start climbing like mad and develop bubbles.
3. Yeah I tried gumming all the connects at the bottom up in silicone - no joy. None of the tubes seem to flatten (they're not that different in strength) and all the lines of oil move.

I might try switching the tubes and making the connections at the top near the engine even tighter (taping them over).

Thanks for the help.

 

[FIZZER6]

1. Yes
2. Initially on mine things are fine (the lines climb and seem steady at differing levels for a short time) and the especially one or two of them start climbing like mad and develop bubbles.
3. Yeah I tried gumming all the connects at the bottom up in silicone - no joy. None of the tubes seem to flatten (they're not that different in strength) and all the lines of oil move.

I might try switching the tubes and making the connections at the top near the engine even tighter (taping them over).

Thanks for the help.

I haven't had a problem with mine but when you are pulling a vacuum even the smallest microscopic leak will cause problems.

 

[hk_fz6_05]

well....mystery solved. It was definitely an air leak. How do I know this? Well being frustrated with the process I left it for a week or so and when I went to check on it yesterday afternoon all the oil had leaked onto the floor of the garage.

so I'm going to rebuild and have another go next year - for now the bike is getting put back together and to sleep for the winter. I need the space to fix my bicycle so I can get around the next few months.

thanks for your help.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Bumping this one so everyone can be sure to do this! Autozone sells the 3/16'' vacuum restrictors, and the 3/16'' F-connectors. I got a board at home depot for $1 and 20 foot of 3/16'' ID clear vinyl tubing as well. The whole project was maybe an hour's worth of driving, 10 minutes of work and right around $20 (I broke one of the F-connectors and had to get a new one).

I used SAE 30 weight oil (old stuff we had for the lawn mower) and pulled it up into the tube and let them all equalize. Hooked it up to the bike and TB 1 was WAY high, 2 was almost at the F connector. Got everything synced up, adjusted my idle, resynced and got it set at 4k rpm as well. The bike is much smoother throughout the rev range and idles MUCH nicer now.

Best $20 I have spent on the bike so far.

 

[kilgore_trout]

So I followed the great instructions to build the manometer. When I went through the sync process, the best balance I seemed to get was with the #3 screw fully closed. This doesn't seem right - should I reset 2-4 to something like 3/4 out and try again, or accept it as is (with #3 closed)?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So I followed the great instructions to build the manometer. When I went through the sync process, the best balance I seemed to get was with the #3 screw fully closed. This doesn't seem right - should I reset 2-4 to something like 3/4 out and try again, or accept it as is (with #3 closed)?

If you open #1 (yes #1), 1/4 to 1/2 turn, it'll give you more adjustment at the other 3 screws.

 

[FIZZER6]

If you open #1 (yes #1), 1/4 to 1/2 turn, it'll give you more adjustment at the other 3 screws.

I assume you have done it that way? No issues? Thanks for the info.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I assume you have done it that way? No issues? Thanks for the info.

Yepper.

Actually, I was trying to get my Morgan Carbtune (Shows the HG as well, not just the levels) to the specified Atmospheric pressure (per the FSM) but was unsuccesful.

I'm at sea level and no way was it going to the suggested #.

I did screw up by adjusting #1 WITHOUT screwing it in and gettting a base line # of turns out from the factory.

Its NOT posted anywhere for #1. (you can do that just for peace of mind and write it down).

Mines (#1) is now set at (as I recall) about 1 turn out. 1.25 turns out max should allow full adjustment should you run out of adjustment on the others.

As a side note, probably two years ago, another memeber had the same issue. I posted the same as above, he went maybe 1/4 turn out and he was able to adjust the others normally.

The bottom line is get them all as even as possible, don't worry about the atmoshere pressure.. Re-check your sync at 4,000 RPM's and re-adjust accordingly. You can get a happy medium between idle and 4k. t'll help get rid of the vibs (got rid of 90% of mine)

And yes, my bike runs great, super smooth idle, no de-cel popping (no adjustment to the CO settings with open Scorps). I was able to get all my #'s within 3mms, (the factory allows 10mm's).

I also would suggust putting the largest fan you have in front of the exhaust, radiator as the fine tuning does take a little more time and the engine will get hot.

I tried (the fan never kicked on, I was able to keep it cool enough) to keep the engine at its normal operating temp as possible..

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

So I followed the great instructions to build the manometer. When I went through the sync process, the best balance I seemed to get was with the #3 screw fully closed. This doesn't seem right - should I reset 2-4 to something like 3/4 out and try again, or accept it as is (with #3 closed)?

Please post how the TB sync turns out and good luck..

 

[kilgore_trout]

Well, I spent some more time fiddling with this yesterday. The best results I was able to get were either 2-4 balanced with #1 still high, or 1, 2, and 4 balanced but with #3 low. I could not get all four balanced, even with tweaking #1 1/4 turn.

Does anyone know how far out #1 is set at the factory? My only guess is that the PO had tweaked it and now I can't get the others to balance.

Even with only being able to balance 3 of the 4, I'm amazed at the difference! Mine were way out of whack, and now the bike is so much smoother; more even throttle on/off, more power, less vibrations in the bars. It really is like a different bike! I'm dying to know if it'll be even better if I can get all four balanced!Blah

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Well, I spent some more time fiddling with this yesterday. The best results I was able to get were either 2-4 balanced with #1 still high, or 1, 2, and 4 balanced but with #3 low. I could not get all four balanced, even with tweaking #1 1/4 turn.

Does anyone know how far out #1 is set at the factory? My only guess is that the PO had tweaked it and now I can't get the others to balance.

Even with only being able to balance 3 of the 4, I'm amazed at the difference! Mine were way out of whack, and now the bike is so much smoother; more even throttle on/off, more power, less vibrations in the bars. It really is like a different bike! I'm dying to know if it'll be even better if I can get all four balanced!Blah

As noted above, its NOT posted anywhere the standard # of turns out. Mine runs fine at 1 turn out.

What is your #1 set at now? (gently seated and backed out)???

Something that is NOT supposed to be messed with (see below pic)



In between the 1&2 TB (on the left, and 3&4 on the right), in the middle, should be a screw with a spring on it. From the factory, its used to sync BOTH THROTTLE BODIES to each other. Yamaha sometimes puts a slither of white paint on the spring as it is NOT MEANT TO BE adjusted.

On my old FJR, I paid the shop (before my Carbtune) for a sync. I later found one (that bike had three screws) of those screws adjusted (the paint was broken and they did NOT adjust the air screw(like the FZ).

If your had white paint and its obviously broke/cracked, someones screwed with it and shouldn't have.

On the FJR forum, the "un-authorized" TB sync (adjusting the BUTTERFLY SCREWS) is done by slipping a slender round (like a large paper clip) with the buterfly closed and getting them all even in relation to the closed butterfly and TB body. Your basically putting the butterfly adjustment back to factory stock. Fine tune again with the air screws per the FSM..

However, from what you describe, 1&2 SHOULD be way off from 3&4 (screwed up adjustment in the middle) but you don't... Something to inspect, even very carefully if you want, pull the air cleaner assembly and just check and see if the butterflys from one side to the other are off..

 

[kilgore_trout]

When I checked, my #1 was at 1/2 out. If you say yours works well at one full turn out, I'll start from there. Thanks for the tip on checking the butterflies - I'll definitely do that and check the screw between the bodies.

Unfortunately, I'm heading out of town tomorrow and won't be able to play with this for a week. I'll try again when I get back and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the great advice!