Broken my gears :-(

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Shi . ! That don't sound good at all....

Stethescope time???

 

[RichBinAZ]

If you take the front sprocket off, you won't be spinning the chain, just the shaft. Eliminate the extra noise. It will be a bit safer too. Don't want you to loose any fingers doing this
Try turning the output shaft by hand - engine off - in neutral. Does it turn smoothly. If you put it in 2nd, you will be able to turn it a few degrees only - any noise there?

It does sound a bit like a bearing, but I'm also hearing something touching - could be the chain slap, but it does sound like something is touching inside and this is only in 2nd gear right - not any other gear?

And you said it was doing it in 2nd with the clutch pulled in coasting, throttle closed - but not any other gears when coasting clutch in. That would limit it to the output shaft.

Still a puzzle

If you take it apart again, you can save the oil in something clean and re-use it.

Did you turn all the bearings by hand and they were completely smooth running?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1 on the above re removing the chain... There's so many noise's its not funny and very hard to determine what's what.

I think that drive chain needs oil too, its very loud.

I'd like to hear the engine, in neutral, from both sides.

There's knocking and scraping, then the chain noise...

 

[AdamFZ]

I did check all the bearings for play and I couldn't feel anything.

I managed to turn the shafts but couldn't hear anything.

I will whip the sprocket off and video it again on Wednesday. I'm gonna ride the bike tomorrow and see how it is.

I'm probably going to get a 2nd hand set of gears and replace it all. I reckon I could do it in a day ;-)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RichBinAZ]

Ball bearings usually have play in them - With bearings it's about how smooth they turn. Any roughness at all or damage to the ball cages and out they go. I was just looking on a US website and the bearings are not that pricey... but then again, I'm not paying british taxes and suffering from the wettest year in history.

Apache Motorcycles Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki KTM CAN-AM Top Rated New & Used Motorcycle Dealer, ATVs, UTVs, Jet Skis, Scooters - serving Arizona. (I picked a 2005 model)

If you end up getting a 2nd hand set of gears, see if you can get the shift forks with them. Then at least you can compare the 2 sets of forks to see if they got a slight bend. The forks are not cheap to replace.

Will wait till wednesday

 

[stink989]

The point you got to and found wear on the dogs and shift fork. I would have replaced the gears that have any signs of the dogs wearing and the shift fork that has the rub mark on it. That fork should not have the mark where it is and something is going on with the gear it runs on. Also fresh bearings and check the shaft that the forks run on to make sure they are straight. They can bend and cause problems.

 

[AdamFZ]

The fork shafts were not bent.... i checked.

Well i rode it 40 miles today to work. Half motorway and half city riding. All hunky dory apart from the noise in 2nd gear.

The bearings were smooth and no noticeable stiffness felt. Although i have noticed a hummmmm hummmmm hummmm hummmm hummmmm in ALL gears. Very very faint and not constant. Changes with speed and which ever gear i'm in. For example, if i'm in 3rd and go into 4th and stay at the same speed, the hummmm goes slower.

To me, this indicates a bearing issue :-(

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Ball bearings usually have play in them - With bearings it's about how smooth they turn. Any roughness at all or damage to the ball cages and out they go. I was just looking on a US website and the bearings are not that pricey... but then again, I'm not paying british taxes and suffering from the wettest year in history.

Apache Motorcycles Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki KTM CAN-AM Top Rated New & Used Motorcycle Dealer, ATVs, UTVs, Jet Skis, Scooters - serving Arizona. (I picked a 2005 model)

If you end up getting a 2nd hand set of gears, see if you can get the shift forks with them. Then at least you can compare the 2 sets of forks to see if they got a slight bend. The forks are not cheap to replace.

Will wait till wednesday

+1 on everything but "Ball bearings usually have play in them". There shouldn't be any up/down/sidesways play. Again +1 on the smoothness with the bearing turning.


Adam, as I re-call, there was a bushing or two on the transmission shafts.

Did you check them for any slop? Should one be worn, that'd allow a gear to move (other than designed) and potentially hit that shifter fork (which shouldn't have that mark (even as slight as it is). You may want to, before pulling any transmission shafts, gently lean on the gears (especially by that marked fork) with a lateral load and see if their, or any other parts, are sloppy on the shaft... The shifter fork is straight but the gear is not potentially running true..

Good luck...

 

[AdamFZ]

Does anyone know if the later model gears will fit a 2005 ?

Edit: just checked via http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/information/parts-catalogue.aspx and they all have the same part numbers so look like they will

 

[FinalImpact]

The output shaft is a constant speed with regard to the bike, so I vote not bearings as its isolated to one gear.

I think Scott hinted at this; does loading the shifter change the noise in 2nd gear? All it takes to make all that racket is a tiny burr touching something like a fork or the adjacent gear.

 

[ELHOCKEY]

OK this might be a shot in the dark because it only happens in second, I've heard that noise coming from my car, it ended up being one of the throttle bodies. can you pinpoint where the noise is coming from?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

OK this might be a shot in the dark because it only happens in second, I've heard that noise coming from my car, it ended up being one of the throttle bodies. can you pinpoint where the noise is coming from?

Listen to the two video's in post #80.

Its a terrible racket...


And it definitly isn't a TB...

 

[AdamFZ]

Right, i took the chain and sprocket off but you can't really hear it.

It needs a load through the gearbox to make the noise. Pre-loading 2nd gear doesn't make the noise go away either :-(

 

[RichBinAZ]

Although i have noticed a hummmmm hummmmm hummmm hummmm hummmmm in ALL gears. Very very faint and not constant. Changes with speed and which ever gear i'm in. For example, if i'm in 3rd and go into 4th and stay at the same speed, the hummmm goes slower.

That makes it sound like it has something to do with the clutch shaft as the final drive shaft is related to road speed.

Right, i took the chain and sprocket off but you can't really hear it.

It needs a load through the gearbox to make the noise. Pre-loading 2nd gear doesn't make the noise go away either :-(

I was going to suggest jamming a piece of wood onto the end of the drive shaft while you had the sprocket off to replicate a bit of load - but the mr safety in me held back. This is however, another data point and tells us that we will not find the issue by taking apart and just looking at stuff. Have to load it somehow. You can load the clutch shaft by pulling the clutch in.

Sounds like you are in the process of getting a 2nd hand gearset?

Just looking at the manual page 5-94,95&96... not very helpful.

I did think replacing the shaft collars (bushings between the gears and the shaft) may be usefull - but it's a guess and may not work. Depends on how much the current bushings allow the gear to get out of perpendicularity with the shaft - and if the new bushing improves that - no dimensions in the specs though.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just a couple of suggestions, obviously we need the chain on with some load. Can you lube the chain up real good, that should quiet it up a bit..

Maybe a video IN NEUTRAL, LISTENING TO BOTH SIDEs and a video in second gear with load on it at its worst racket, again from both sides..

If you have a helper, maybe he can hold the throttle steady in gear and you can, with a stethescope (or large screwdriver held to your ear) try to determine if the noise is more prevelent on one side or the other..

That bushing(s) that at least one of the gears rides on, was that pretty tight, (I don't believe you ever answered)?

 

[FinalImpact]

Up there it was mentioned that the forks should be replaced. I don't see the shift forks at fault if they are doing their job. The linkage should center each of the gears such that when NOT engaged there is no contact from the adjacent gear. If this holds true and the linkage locks the gear into place NOT allowing it out of the selected gear and the INTERLOCKS DO NOT allow selection of two gears at once, your issue is somewhere else.
>> Obviously if you hammer on the shifter hard enough it may induce contact beyond the forks pad intended to move the gear. Its momentary and not systemic of the noise being heard.

I have a theory; the abrupt gear engagement displaced the bushing to a point of distorting it and the gear(s) (include mating gear) no longer spins concentric under load.
Without a load the OIL easily centers the gears on the shaft and they FEEL FINE but they are not. With a dial indicator you can measure the deflection and run-out of the suspect gears. IT MUST BE DONE WITHOUT OIL.

The bushing is softer than the gear and potentially deformed making the gear set deflect under load. Is it worth checking?? Is it worth replacing the bushing or are you better off throwing in a used gear that was married to another box? Personally I'd measure it but thats just me.

 

[AdamFZ]

Thanks for all the reply guys, much appreciated !

I'm going to whip the engine out and strip it again and will check for play and potentially change the collar on 2nd gear.

I'm trying to decide whether i spend £100 on 2nd hand gears or £300 on a 2nd hand engine

 

[RichBinAZ]

I'm trying to decide whether i spend £100 on 2nd hand gears or £300 on a 2nd hand engine

Tough question - The answer depends on how much storage room you have to keep a whole engine lying around - unless you e-bay the 2nd hand engine once the swap is done.

Do "the authorities" care about serial numbers etc? at MOT time.

Wonder what is wrong with the engine you are getting?

 

[motojoe122]

Tough question - The answer depends on how much storage room you have to keep a whole engine lying around - unless you e-bay the 2nd hand engine once the swap is done.

Do "the authorities" care about serial numbers etc? at MOT time.

Wonder what is wrong with the engine you are getting?

That was my thinking as well. It's a gamble either way:don'tknow:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any updates?