24 hour newbie goes down; seeking feedback

[nthdegreeburns]

It's been barely 24 hours since I posted my "new rider" post to the thread, and I have already laid down the bike. :shakehead: Could use some feedback / input on what I might've done wrong.

SCENARIO

Here's what I'm facing each time I take the bike out...

• My garage is small and somewhat cluttered -- pointing the bike OUT of the garage is a pain
• My driveway is steep -- vehicles start rolling immediately coming out of garage
• My driveway ends in hill -- downhill is to left when facing OUT of the garage
• The hill leads directly into a T-intersection -- I'm at the end of the cul-de-sac, so there's the length of my yard before a main road

WHAT I TRIED YESTERDAY

• Lined the bike up facing backwards
• Walked the bike down the driveway using the front brake
• Walked the bike backward downhill at the street so I could go uphill to the cul-de-sac and turn around
• Seemed to work, but with my 200lb and the bike's weight, the front tire slipped under front braking

WHAT HAPPENED TODAY

• Lined the bike up facing backwards
• Walked the bike down the driveway again
• Think I tried to lean the bike downhill before countersteering
• Bike overwhelmed me on downhill side
• Laid bike down onto the frame slider very gently

DAMAGE DONE

See the attached images. The damage photos are the wrong orientation -- up is forward on the bike.

• First image is of the bike this morning before ride and being laid down
• Scratched the right seat handle
• Scratched the frame slider (saved the fairing, I think)
• Scratched the right mirror
• Other scratches on the right rear turn signal, brake lever, and handlebar end (no photos)

SEEKING FEEDBACK

So -- I'm trying to make sure I can get OUT of the garage without having this happen more than once. I am comfortable riding UP the driveway into the garage, and I'm wondering if I should just make the room / effort to ride the bike down the driveway instead of backing out. That said, questions...

• I didn't see any other damage than these scratches (the blue paint one made me sad). Do I need to check the brake lever any more than confirming it worked?
• I didn't install the frame slider -- can the outer part be replaced? Should I even bother?
• Am I damaging the front brake backing it down the driveway?
• If I ride facing out of the garage, do I just need to keep it straight to avoid laying the bike down under power with my left side facing downhill in the street?

Thanks in advance for any feedback offered. I DID get out and ride AFTER the incident. My first REAL motorcycle ride lasted about 40 minutes, and other than getting into way too much traffic / fast roads, I enjoyed it.

Regards,
nthdegreeburns

 

[mave2911]

I always try to reverse in - if there's no space, perhaps you can move some stuff?

Try riding up the driveway, and turning at the entrance, so the bike is perpendicular to the opening, then reverse in if you can.

Failing that, find a new place to live, or leave your bike on the street.

No good can come of having to reverse down a steep driveway all the time.

Cheers,
Rick

EDIT: From the pictures, don't drive the car so far forward, so the bike can fit between the car and the garage door - then you can ride in there, and then reverse into the garage.

 

[nthdegreeburns]

I should also note that, today, I DID fire up the bike while trying to get oriented downhill after backing down the driveway. So that was my first experience using the cutoff switch, so at least I remembered to do that.

I will try and make room inside the garage (there's a table for Craigslist in front of the bike that isn't visible) this week so I can turn around inside.

I'm very fearful of the instant downhill slope out of the garage. If I back out and to the right, I can go to the level sidewalk (about 10' of it) to the right of the garage door that leads to my front door. It's just that downhill slope I have to contend with.

I will also see about making a right turn at the top to reverse the bike in, but there's not much room for error.

nthdegreeburns

 

[trepetti]

Glad you are OK and more importantly, not spooked. I do not have a steep driveway, but I often have to roll backwards and k-turn the bike to get pointed in the right direction. I may not completely understand, but make sure you maneuver the bike so that when you do start off, you are not at a steep steering angle. Feather the clutch when you start and keep your feet off the pegs until you are moving at a speed where the bike is stable.

Stay focused and learn from your mistakes. That is how I learned about the coefficient of friction of my lawn (laid mine down in the back yard turning it around).

Good luck.

 

[Daniel_Aus]

Maybe you can post some photos of your drive way and the road so we can get a better idea of the situation.

My feeling is that it's best to come out of your garage forwards and turn straight to the left (downhill) when you hit the street, making sure there's no oncoming traffic so you won't need to stop at the bottom of the driveway.

Backing out won't hurt your brakes but just increases the risk of a slow drop, as you've got to try and control all that weight with your body..

 

[Erci]

Looks to me like you have enough space to turn the bike around in the garage using the side-stand pivot method. I do this all the time with my FZ1.

May look a bit scary, but give it a try. It doesn't take a whole lot of strength and once you figure out how to do it, it allows you to get your bike out of some very odd parking spots

There are several ways to do it. If you're going to try it, I suggest you always spin the back toward the side-stand. (If you're facing the bike from the left, pull the back of the bike toward yourself). This way there's no chance of rolling the bike off the stand.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhpeeEjheEE]How to: Spin a motorcycle on it's kickstand. - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEQASq8ersA]Side stand trick - YouTube[/ame]

 

[yamihoe]

If thats the worst that happens, you are doin better than most of us.
I was going to suggest EXACTLY what Erci posted so thanks eric!! :thumbup:

It took me some time to learn how to manhandle the bike (still learning) and it will benefit you to just go to a soccer field or grassy area and play with the bike on your feet,,,walking it back, forward, on 1 foot, tilting it to the side.....it should be easier for you since you are nearly twice my size (I can pick up the bike from on its side and im 120 lbs soaking wet)
its important to realize that when you are on the bike you have ur weight and the bikes, but on your feet its just the bike.

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Looks to me like you have enough space to turn the bike around in the garage using the side-stand pivot method. I do this all the time with my FZ1.

Curious -- does this not damage the side stand? Or any electrical / mechanical bits tied to the side stand (e.g. the cutoff switch if you try and start it in gear with the stand down)?

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

 

[DavesFZ]

I just saw the sidestand spin yesterday and tried it myself from the clutch side of the bike without any calamities. From what I have read, as long as your sidestand is steel, there's no danger of hurting it. I guess dealerships do it everyday

 

[VEGASRIDER]

How tall are you? Can you flat foot the bike? Reason I ask is because you can powerwalk the bike in reverse, letting gravity take it's course while gently squeezing the front brake. Not grabbing!

Another reason to encourage most riders to start off on a 250cc bike. It's just more foregiving being it's much smaller and lighter. The experience dealing with your driveway on a smaller bike would lead you to working on your skills to negotiate around your driveway with a larger heavier bike in the future.

 

[nthdegreeburns]

How tall are you? Can you flat foot the bike? Reason I ask is because you can powerwalk the bike in reverse, letting gravity take it's course while gently squeezing the front brake. Not grabbing!

I'm almost flat footed with boots. I never thought about powerwalking the bike in reverse down the driveway. Certainly would've given me more control at the bottom.

 

[Daniel_Aus]

I'm almost flat footed with boots. I never thought about powerwalking the bike in reverse down the driveway. Certainly would've given me more control at the bottom.

Wait I'm confused... did you walk your bike back down the drive way while sitting on the bike or standing and walking beside it?

I would never try backing down a steep slope without sitting on the bike as I go. But then I can flat foot without any problem.

Edit: Then again, now that I think of it if I were stronger and had more experience moving a bike around by hand it would save the problem of the extra weight (i.e. you) on the bike causing the front tyre to slip under braking. But on the other hand skillful application of the front brake while backing it down may also prevent this.

 

[Data]

You can also spin the bike around on the centerstand by tipping it slightly toward you and carefully spinning it, much like the sidestand spin. They also make centerstand turntables if you want to go tech with it.

I have seen some steep Atlanta driveways like you describe and backing a bike down one of them is asking for trouble. Your best solution is to make just enough room in your garage so you can ride the bike in, carefully spin it around, and then be able to safely ride the bike forward down the driveway every time.

If you absolutely have to walk the bike down the slope backwards, you can also put it in first gear and use the clutch to "brake" the back wheel. That way, if the front tire slips, you can engage the clutch to stop the rear wheel ( although that method does take some practice because clutch-braking is counter intuitive ).

 

[nthdegreeburns]

Wait I'm confused... did you walk your bike back down the drive way while sitting on the bike or standing and walking beside it?

I would never try backing down a steep slope without sitting on the bike as I go. But then I can flat foot without any problem.

Edit: Then again, now that I think of it if I were stronger and had more experience moving a bike around by hand it would save the problem of the extra weight (i.e. you) on the bike causing the front tyre to slip under braking. But on the other hand skillful application of the front brake while backing it down may also prevent this.

Sorry -- I wasn't clear. Yes, I was sitting on the bike while backing it down. When I got to the bottom of the driveway the 2nd time, I THINK that I failed to lean the bike properly to point it downhill. I'm honestly not sure where I screwed up.

 

[darius]

Walking the bike backwards downhill is tricky and a risk best avoided. As suggested, turn the bike around using the kickstand.

I'll swivel the bike to avoid reversing out of parking spaces. Safer way to go.

 

[pookamatic]

I still not as comfortable side-walking the bike as I am sitting on it (may never be), but it is more convenient. When I first got it, I experimented with centerstand spins so going out my slightly steep driveway would be easier. Too much work.

It gets easier. In time your sense of balance will become more tuned and your legs will become stronger. To speed this up, go to an open parking lot and practice low/no speed balance forward and reverse. The more time you spend learning, the less like you'll be subjected to stomach butterflies.

 

[Erci]

Curious -- does this not damage the side stand? Or any electrical / mechanical bits tied to the side stand (e.g. the cutoff switch if you try and start it in gear with the stand down)?

Thanks,
nthdegreeburns

Should not cause any damage. It's a common practice.

 

[FZ09Bandit]

Fz's are easy to turn with out using the side stand pivot.

I grab the handle bars, and the "pillion handle" (preferably on the kickstand side Incase things to awry) and move it like that. After you pull the bike in, face it outwards so you won't go fight it the next morning.

And practice your balance. Even if its just sitting on a flat surface. You will be amazed how many places it will help you with. And clutch control! It's a wet clutch, your really gonna have to do alot to mess it up!

 

[major tom]

I've seen for sale devices that are like dolly's that allow the bike to be rotated in place 360deg. The most useful perhaps is you use the centerstand on top of it and simply rotate. It's as low to the ground as possible so you are not lifting the bike to much(hopefully).

 

[lawlberg]

My friends driveway sounds just like this, except it has a bit more of a flat space up at the top. I came really close to dropping when I stepped in a gravelly depression while turning it partway down the hill, but somehow saved it. Kickstand trick is great. Always best to get it going down forward first, but if you have to walk it down backwards, definitely be on the bike, and lean forward on the tank so that you're putting more weight on the front wheel, this should help with the tire slipping.