Wiring setup suggestions

[Norbert]

This forum has been so helpful in the past, I'd like to vet a wiring setup with you all. Ready? Here goes.....!

Here's what I like to have:

1) 12v power outlet - my gps that's on my handlebar via a ram mount

2) wire for heated grips - I plan on installing a DualStar heated grip kit (or something similar) which has a toggle switch.
See the link here for the product: Heated Grip Kit

3) wire for heated gear which probably uses coax
From what I understand, most heated clothing use coax connections.

4) SAE lead for battery tender
I installed a (fused) SAE lead to the battery terminals so that I can use a battery tender more conveniently, without lifting up my fuel tank. The SAE lead pokes out discretely from under the fuel tank and rests in the middle portion of the handlebars. (It is not in the way.)

So you see, I want to do a lot! Honestly, I feel inundated with choices. I don't have a lot of experience with wiring. But I don't mind learning something new.

Here's a possible solution (numbers refer to the ones above):

1+2)
Accessory Dual Relay Kit
Motorcycle Accessory Relay Kits, cheap Worldwide Shipping

20A relay kits for two ignition switched Sockets or other accessories. T-Connectors ends plug into sockets or adaptors. Posi-Locks ends allow you to hookup heated grips, cigar sockets with pigails, or just about anything you need to power. Leads are easily shortened to exact lengths and rejoined to the Posi-Locks. Relay switching lead is 24" (60 cm), relay to battery POS is 9" (23 cm), relay to battery NEG is 15" (38 cm)

This is for my 12v outlet and heated grips. I want to have the outlet and toggle switch for the grips come out of my fairings for a nice, clean look. See attached photo.

3+4) This is the hard part. I am not an expert on heated gear, I just want to leave an option open for when I get some.
SAE to Coax Female
Powerlet Tankbag Kits, SAE Adaptors, cheap Worldwide Shipping

I was thinking that I can plug this to my existing SAE lead from my battery. I don't think I need a relay because I wouldn't take off the heated clothing and just leave it on the bike.
When the time comes to hookup my battery to a tender, I can just unplug the SAE to COAX plug.
This means that the SAE to COAX plug will be near the center of my handle bars. Would this location be bad? Again, I have no heated gear, but I may get some, and I don't want to be re-wiring everything when I do!

This also means that there will be 2 sets of ring terminals connected to the battery.
One is the Accessory Dual Relay Kit and the other is the SAE lead. Do you think this would be a problem? I think as long as I can get battery terminal bolts that are long enough I should be fine.

Sound like a plan? Do you think the SAE to Coax Female connection is a good idea? Are there any downsides? Should I go for it or revise a part of the plan?
I am looking for a simple setup that wont leave a rats nest of wires near my handlebars. I also don't want to pigeon-hole myself and have to rewire things later on.

Your input is much appreciated and badly needed!!

 

[FZ1inNH]

I don't see any issues with actual wiring and connecting them all. What I do see for an issue for you is the load on the system should you use a few of these items at the same time. The FZ6 does not carry a lot of available overhead for power output. Some of the electrical guys here can chime in but I remember reading in other threads that the bike had about 8.6 amps available? (Or was that 8.6 in use and only 4.4 amps available?)

At some point, you would exceed the charging capacity and even while riding, put a constant drain on the battery as it will not be able to charge fast enough.

Do you have the amps or watts for all of the desired items? Let's start adding them up here for you so you'll know what can or cannot be run at the same time in order to keep your battery at a safe charging capacity.

 

[SANGER_A2]

I can pretty much guarantee that you will leave the heated grips on at some point and kill your battery and have to buy a new one (once they run down to nothing they're screwed). I would wire it in using a relay that is switch on by the ignition or something. Check out my site or Boneman's for options on this.

 

[Norbert]

I can pretty much guarantee that you will leave the heated grips on at some point and kill your battery and have to buy a new one (once they run down to nothing they're screwed). I would wire it in using a relay that is switch on by the ignition or something. Check out my site or Boneman's for options on this.

the Accessory Dual Relay Kit has a relay for that. I will check out those sites, though.

 

[Norbert]

I don't see any issues with actual wiring and connecting them all. What I do see for an issue for you is the load on the system should you use a few of these items at the same time. The FZ6 does not carry a lot of available overhead for power output. Some of the electrical guys here can chime in but I remember reading in other threads that the bike had about 8.6 amps available? (Or was that 8.6 in use and only 4.4 amps available?)

At some point, you would exceed the charging capacity and even while riding, put a constant drain on the battery as it will not be able to charge fast enough.

Do you have the amps or watts for all of the desired items? Let's start adding them up here for you so you'll know what can or cannot be run at the same time in order to keep your battery at a safe charging capacity.

I couldn't find the specs for the Dualstar hand grips, but the Aerostitch equivalent draws:
low (2 amps/28 watts), high (3 amps/40 watts).

I couldn't find the amps for my Garmin Nuvi 650, but from googling it, it should be about:
1.5-3 amps

I don't have any heated gear yet. But here are the specs from Gerbing:
12v Product.................Amps
All 12v Jackets 6.4 - 6.7
12v Vest Liner 4.5 - 4.6
All 12v Pants 3.6 - 4.0
insoles 1.2 amps/pair
12v Gloves 1.8 - 2.2 <--probably dont need this since I will have the heated grips

 

[cv_rider]

If you are short on current, you might considering also swapping the stock bulbs for HID, which draw half as much current. It would save you perhaps 70W. That may be way off-base. I think Gozilla's thread on the dual HID angle eye mod calculates this.

 

[texcollect]

This is where I put my powerlet socket for my GPS.

 

[Norbert]

So I need to figure out the hypothetical maximum watts and amps I will be using?


Oh and I have everything stock. No dual headlight mod, no stebel horn, no HIDs, nada.....

 

[RJ2112]

What you really need to figure out is what your power budget is. There is a limited supply available; the system 'as is' uses almost all of it. The 'excess' is calculated as what is available beyond the system's requirements. X amount to run the FI, ignition, running lights, headlights, what have you. What remains, you can allocate to things you add to the bike.... go beyond that budget, and the system will rob power from the battery to keep everything going. When the battery goes flat, so does everything else.

Budget? This can be figured out as the amount of amperage, or by calculating the wattage consumed. Amperage is the actual flow of electrons through the wires.... wattage is the amount of flow, at a specified voltage. 12 watts = 1 ampere @ 12 volts, for instance.

The voltage is usually assumed to be 12 volts, and for all of this stuff that's close enough to true. (it's really a bit higher than that on a healthy system, so you can 'push' energy back into the battery for storage)

Knowing your headlight uses a 55 watt bulb, divide that by 12 (volts), and you know how much current it typically consumes. (near enough to 4.5 amperes) all current consumers are additive. If you add the second headlamp, you place an additional 4.5 ampere 'draw' on your charging system.

It's interesting to note that the main fuse for the entire bike is a 30 ampere fuse......

That tells me that the bike really doesn't produce more than about 27 amperes on it's best day, as there has to be some buffer between max output and when the fuse 'blows'. 10% is actually quite thin.... it's probably more like 15 or 20% beyond the alternator output.

Even if it could produce 30 amperes, that means (multiplying by 12volts) there would be at the very highest possibility 360 watts possible. If we use the 14 volts possible, you get to 420 watts peak.

I've seen this calculated out on the FZ6, and I seem to remember the budget being around 80 watts....... it's important to remember also that the system will not produce full current at idle, you need a couple of thousand RPM to get near the full output of the alternator.

 

[Norbert]

Ok ok. So basically you folks are saying that I just need to figure out my "power budget" so I don't drain the battery.
I will do some googling to figure this out and post up back here.

But other than that, does the actual setup seemed sound?

 

[Norbert]

Also, I have to wire the relay in to the ignition wire. Any ideas where this wire is? Based on page 2-39 in the service manual, is it the wire M in the image below?


Thanks for sticking with me folks! :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[FZ1inNH]

I think ant_mb would be the best one to ask about this. He's just been all through his wiring installing the alarm with the remote starter. I'm betting he can tell you exactly where you want to tie this in. :thumbup:

 

[RJ2112]

I couldn't find the specs for the Dualstar hand grips, but the Aerostitch equivalent draws:
low (2 amps/28 watts), high (3 amps/40 watts).

I couldn't find the amps for my Garmin Nuvi 650, but from googling it, it should be about:
1.5-3 amps

I don't have any heated gear yet. But here are the specs from Gerbing:
12v Product.................Amps
All 12v Jackets 6.4 - 6.7
12v Vest Liner 4.5 - 4.6
All 12v Pants 3.6 - 4.0
insoles 1.2 amps/pair
12v Gloves 1.8 - 2.2 <--probably dont need this since I will have the heated grips

I am quite certain you could not run all those devices without overtaxing your charging system.... assuming you use all the 'low' values for amperage, you can add them all up, multiply by 12 and get a good idea of the total wattage required.... skipping the gloves,(1.2+3.6+4.5+6.4+1.5+2)X12 would require 140 watts to support..... like I said, I've seen others do the work to figure out that ~80watts overhead that can be consumed.

The 'optimistic' nature of calculating off the minimum quoted values is usually a bad idea. In this case it might not be so unreasonable; most heating systems use a 'chopper' circuit to power them rather than being on 100% of the time.... in effect they switch on and off enough that they consume less than the peak values, unless they are run at 100%.

 

[Cali rider]

Read the posts in this very recent thread, including the links to other threads.
FZ6 charging system discussion

Basically there is very little excess capacity in the FZ6 charging system.

 

[Norbert]

I am quite certain you could not run all those devices without overtaxing your charging system.... assuming you use all the 'low' values for amperage, you can add them all up, multiply by 12 and get a good idea of the total wattage required.... skipping the gloves,(1.2+3.6+4.5+6.4+1.5+2)X12 would require 140 watts to support..... like I said, I've seen others do the work to figure out that ~80watts overhead that can be consumed.

The 'optimistic' nature of calculating off the minimum quoted values is usually a bad idea. In this case it might not be so unreasonable; most heating systems use a 'chopper' circuit to power them rather than being on 100% of the time.... in effect they switch on and off enough that they consume less than the peak values, unless they are run at 100%.

Ok good info. I won't go crazy with heated gear. I haven't even purchased any. (I do have my heart set on heated insoles!)

So what I'm seeing here is a limitation of the bike, not of the "wiring setup" I am proposing.

 

[RJ2112]

Ok good info. I won't go crazy with heated gear. I haven't even purchased any. (I do have my heart set on heated insoles!)

So what I'm seeing here is a limitation of the bike, not of the "wiring setup" I am proposing.

Yes. The FZ6 does not have a lot of excess power.

With a heated vest, and insulated riding pants, textile jacket, balaclava, ski mobile gloves, insulated hiking boots, I can ride down to the lower 30's.... I usually don't like to dip much below 35, as the traction starts to get more dicey (too much time above and below freezing, and you get black ice, and water on top of ice).

I know I have thought long and hard about heated gloves.... seems to me, heated grips would be more convenient; but at least part of the heat has to go to the bar... that's one heck of a big heat sink! At least with the gloves, your hand is getting almost all of the wattage....

 

[Norbert]

Hmmm. Another thing I need to look out for is my fuses.
It looks like the existing, installed SAE lead that came with my Battery Tender has only a 7.5 amp fuse. This means my battery may be unprotected if I use certain combos of heated gear.
Because if I use this thing to power my heated gear:
Battery to SAE Adaptors

It will be using the fuse from the SAE lead from my battery.

It would be kinda easy to go beyond 7.5 amps if I get a heated jacket and pants. If it's that cold, I probably still indoors, but still, this is important to know.

specs from Gerbing:
12v Product.................Amps
All 12v Jackets 6.4 - 6.7
12v Vest Liner 4.5 - 4.6
All 12v Pants 3.6 - 4.0
insoles 1.2 amps/pair

 

[RJ2112]

Hmmm. Another thing I need to look out for is my fuses.
It looks like the existing, installed SAE lead that came with my Battery Tender has only a 7.5 amp fuse. This means my battery may be unprotected if I use certain combos of heated gear.
Because if I use this thing to power my heated gear:
Battery to SAE Adaptors

It will be using the fuse from the SAE lead from my battery.

It would be kinda easy to go beyond 7.5 amps if I get a heated jacket and pants. If it's that cold, I probably still indoors, but still, this is important to know.

Your battery would not be at risk..... as soon as the fuse 'blows', whatever is hooked to the SAE harness quits working.... but that's the whole reason you put a fuse in there, so you protect the rest of the bike from the over current condition. Putting in a fuse that requires more current to flow before opening (and thereby stopping the flow) would in fact REDUCE the protection.

Most seem to think replacing the 7.5 with a 15 amp fuse leaves enough protection. Since the smart tenders I have read the specs on all state they put about 1 ampere of current into the battery at their highest rated output, I'm pretty sure the fues won't blow from charging the batery.

Coming out of the harness to your accessories, we've already talked about having right about 80 watts to spare before you potentially strand yourself due to battery discharge..... 80 watss divided by 12? 6 2/3 amps. 7.5 is realistically already 'in the red' as far as your charging system is concerned.... to get that much juice, it's got to be drawing some from the battery. (maybe only an ampere...)

Increasing the size of the fuse to twice as much current just means you would ensure the clothing could suck your battery dry.

 

[Norbert]

You folks are going to kill me for saying this :spank: , but this wiring project has been CANCELED !

I sprang for some heated gear from Gerbing instead . I got the T5 heated gloves and the heated insoles. Plus I got the single portable controller.

I got a sweet deal from a "direct to sales" dealer. Still expensive though.
I haven't tried it out yet on my bike or in the cold, since I have to wire in a coax line from the battery. But I did try it all out with my gear on.
Man, I had wires all over. I looked like one of the Borg. It wasn't uncomfortable though. No pressure points and I didn't compromise my freedom of movement.

Trying to spec out the wiring setup was actually very helpful. I learned a lot about wiring and about the fazer's electrical system. Figuring out a power budget was usefull when I went to talk to the Gerbing dealer. Thanks to those who helped me in this thread and who I pm'd. :thumbup:

There are plenty of reviews out there for Gerbing products. But if anyone has any questions, let me know!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also, I have to wire the relay in to the ignition wire. Any ideas where this wire is? Based on page 2-39 in the service manual, is it the wire M in the image below?


Thanks for sticking with me folks! :thumbup::thumbup:

If you just need a line thats hot when the bike is on (to signal a relay) I'd just tap into the front directional running light. It comes on and goes off with the ignition.


As for your heated clothing, if you need a line for that, Powerlet has some nice kits (good quality) that go directly to the battery (no extra relays, wiring, etc). I have a BMW style outlet on the left side of my FZ6 (direct to the battery (fused with a 15 amp fuse). On my FJR I have 2 BMW style outlets, also fused to the left side of the bike(for operator and passenger).... My KLR has an BMW style outlet on the left as well....

The BMW outlets are less likely to come out unlike cig lighter type plugs and won't be damaged should you dismount and forget to un hook yourself...

Scott