Why Is Universal Health Care ‘Un-American’?

[Cuba]

What are you using to invent your figures? There aren't 50 million Americans in the gutter, there aren't 50 million Americans without health insurance, and the bill will not cover 50 million additional people unless we insure every single illegal alien in this country AND invite another 3 million to come join the party.

And what new system is that exactly? What is new besides massive taxes, slashed medicare budgets, and government subsidies to put 30 million people into the existing "broken" and "unsustainable" system (<---- Obama's words). The senate bill, which no, you haven't read since it has not been made public and isn't finished, does not change the system, it just adds to it. Now that you've carefully read and analyzed the bill that isn't being voted on, can you explain to us specifically how it deals with cost controls? We're still waiting.

Here's an update today from Mitch McConnell, good reading, and I agree with his argument:

Completely Reckless, Completely Irresponsible
from the Office of Senator Mitch McConnell

Thursday, December 17, 2009


‘And here’s the most outrageous part: at the end of this rush, they want us to vote on a bill that no one outside the Majority Leader’s conference room has even seen. That’s right. The final bill we’ll vote on isn’t even the one we’ve had on the floor. It’s the deal Democrat leaders have been trying to work out in private’

WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell made the following remarks on the Senate floor Thursday regarding the importance of getting it right on health care reform:

“Senators on both sides acknowledge that the health care bill we’re considering is among the most significant pieces of legislation any of us will ever consider.

“So it stands to reason that we’d devote significant time and attention to it.

“Indeed, some would argue that we should spend more time and attention on this bill than most — if not every — previous bill we’ve considered.

“The Majority disagrees.

“Why? Because this bill has become a political nightmare for them.

“They know Americans overwhelmingly oppose it, so they want to get it over with.

“Americans are already outraged at the fact that Democrat leaders took their eyes off the ball. Rushing the process on a partisan line makes the situation even worse.

“Americans were told the purpose of reform was to reduce the cost of health care.

“Instead, Democrat leaders produced a $2.5 trillion, 2,074-page monstrosity that vastly expands government, raises taxes, raises premiums, and wrecks Medicare.

“And they want to rush this bill through by Christmas — one of the most significant, far-reaching pieces of legislation in U.S. history. They want to rush it.

“And here’s the most outrageous part: at the end of this rush, they want us to vote on a bill that no one outside the Majority Leader’s conference room has even seen.

“That’s right. The final bill we’ll vote on isn’t even the one we’ve had on the floor. It’s the deal Democrat leaders have been trying to work out in private.

“That’s what they intend to bring to the floor and force a vote on before Christmas.

“So this entire process is essentially a charade.

“But let’s just compare the process so far with previous legislation for some perspective. Here’s a snapshot of what we’ve done and where we stand:

• The Majority Leader intends to bring this debate to a close as early as this weekend — four days from now, on this $2.5 trillion dollar mistake

• No American who hasn’t been invited into the Majority Leader’s conference room knows what will be in that bill

• This bill has been the pending business of the Senate since the last week of November — less than four weeks ago.

• We started the amendment process two weeks ago.

• We’ve had 21 amendments and motions — less than two a day.

“Now let’s look at how the Senate has dealt with previous legislation.

“No Child Left Behind (2001):

• 21 session days or 7 weeks.

• Roll Call votes: 44

• Number of Amendments offered: 157

“9/11 Commission/Homeland Security Act (2002):

• 19 session days over 7 weeks.

• Roll Call votes: 20

• Number of Amendments offered: 30

“Energy Bill (2002):

• 21 session days over 8 weeks

• Number of Roll Call votes: 36

• Number of Amendments offered: 158

“This isn’t an energy bill. This is an attempt by a majority to take over one sixth of the U.S. economy — to vastly expand the reach and the role of government into the health care decisions of every single American — and they want to be done after one substantive amendment. This is absolutely inexcusable.

“I think Senator Snowe put it best on Tuesday:

‘Given the enormity and complexity,’ she said, ‘I don’t see anything magical about the Christmas deadline if this bill is going to become law in 2014.’

“And I think Senator Snowe’s comments on a lack of bipartisanship at the outset of this debate are also right on point.

“Here’s what she said in late November:

‘I am truly disappointed we are commencing our historic debate on one of the most significant and pressing domestic issues of our time with a process that has forestalled our ability to arrive at broader agreement on some of the most crucial elements of health care reform. The bottom line is, the most consequential health care legislation in the history of our country and the reordering of $33 trillion in health care spending over the coming decade shouldn’t be determined by one vote-margin strategies – surely we can and must do better.’

“The only conceivable justification for rushing this bill is the overwhelming opposition of the American people. Democrats know that the longer Americans see this bill the less they like it. Here’s the latest from Pew. It came out just yesterday.

“A majority (58 percent) of those who have heard a lot about the bills oppose them while only 32 percent favor them.”

“There is no justification for this blind rush — except a political one, and that’s not good enough for the American people.

“And there’s no justification for forcing the Senate to vote on a bill none of us has seen.

“Americans already oppose this bill. The process is just as bad.

“It’s completely reckless, completely irresponsible.”

 

[Cuba]

This has got to be the first time I actually agree with Ed Shultz. Probably the last too, but this time he's right. This bill is a benefit for insurance companies, not citizens. Read their quotes. Whether you are liberal or conservative this bill is NOT what we signed on for and does NOT solve the problem.


Left rebels against health reform - - POLITICO.com

In a stunning reversal of fortune for President Barack Obama, top progressives are attacking the health-reform plan moving through the Senate as “hollow,” “unsupportable” and a sellout to corporate interests.


Republicans, after plotting for months to sink the signature legislation of Obama’s first year, suddenly think that Democrats might wind up doing it for them.


Most dangerously for White House chances of assembling 60 Senate votes, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean launched a third day of attacks on the emerging bill, arguing in a Washington Post op-ed that it meets none of his benchmarks for “real reform.”


“[A]s it stands, this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America,” Dean wrote, then took to the airwaves to amplify his case.

Ed Schultz, an influential liberal radio host, declared on his “Ed Show” on MSNBC: “The base is restless. They are wandering in the wilderness, Mr. President. … They want to know, where are you? … Right now, Mr. President, your base thinks you’re nothing but a sellout — a corporate sellout, out that. … The only people who like this current bill right now, Mr. President, is the insurance industry — they get a bunch of new customers.”

Markos Moulitsas, founder of Daily Kos, wrote on his Twitter feed: "Time to kill this monstrosity coming out of the Senate." And "Kos" blogged: "You pass a s——-y program now that further bankrupts our nation, and we won't be talking about 'fixing' it in a few years, but whether it should even exist."

With polls showing erosion in both Obama’s popularity and in support for health reform, the White House mobilized to try to tamp down the rebellion from such essential allies.


Senior adviser David Axelrod called in to MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” to argue that Dean’s criticisms are "predicated on a bunch of erroneous conclusions."


“To defeat a bill that will bend the curve on this inexorable rise in health-care costs is insane,” Axelrod said. "I think that would be a tragic, tragic outcome. I don’t think that you want this moment to pass. It will not come back."


Liberals contend that the bill has been watered down so much that Congress should kill it and start over. The White House warns that health reform could be doomed for the rest of this presidency, and probably beyond, if it falters now.


The attack from the left comes at a delicate juncture when a delay of more than a couple of days could sink any remaining chance that the Senate can pass it by Christmas. Senate Democrats are circulating a possible schedule that would have them taking the final vote on Christmas Day.


Right now, Democrats are at least two votes shy of the 60 they need to pass the bill, with liberal Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) saying he has not committed to vote for the bill in its current form.

 

[Cuba]

And page 2 of the same article:

The other, moderate Sen. Ben. Nelson (D-Neb.), has a completely different set of concerns, saying he’s still looking at compromise language designed to bar federal funds from paying for abortion – though the National Right to Life Committee has said the proposal by Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) is not acceptable.


But Obama’s problem now is on the left. MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann told viewers Wednesday night that the Senate version has become “unsupportable … a hollow shell of a bill”: “This is not health, this is not care, this is certainly not reform.”


Pulling back the curtain on White House efforts to rein in Dean, Axelrod said the former governor “got on the phone with Nancy-Ann DeParle, our point person on the health care issue, [who] went through point by point.


“She explained why he was wrong,” Axelrod continued. “And he simply didn’t want to hear that critique. I saw his piece in The Post this morning, and it is predicated on a bunch of erroneous conclusions.”


Arianna Huffington, founder of The Huffington Post, said on “Morning Joe” that business lobbyists “are winning” on a host of Washington issues, including health reform.


“There is no cost containment here,” she said. “Reconciliation [a Democrats-only strategy requiring only 51 votes] is a very pragmatic alternative.”


Asked if she would enthusiastically support Obama for reelection, Huffington replied: “This is not really the question. … Depends on the alternative. … The American middle class was let down. … Can you really say this White House is on the side of the American people?”


Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) accused the Democrats Thursday of abandoning the goal of true reform to the political imperative of simply passing any bill they can label health reform.


“It's now an effort by a political party to protect itself. They're in a political panic, quite frankly,” Graham told reporters. “Nobody really cares what it is anymore as long as they can get it passed, signed, and claim a political victory. That is going to do a lot of damage to long-term health care reform efforts. And I would urge them not to do this. They're walking off a cliff.”


Peggy Noonan, the columnist and former Reagan speechwriter, told Axelrod on “Morning Joe”: “On the issue of health care, you are losing the left, you are losing the right, you are losing the center. That looks to me like a political disaster.”






Still claim that this is the best bill ever?

 

[Wavex]

I agree... this whole thing turned way too political and it has nothing to do with helping American ppl anymore... sad.

I lost my motivation to follow it and just hope something better than the current system comes out of it.

 

[Oscar54]

I truly find it amusing when Cuba cites Mitch McConnel as a voice of reason who accuses the Democrats of rushing the health care reform bill, as if McConnel ever had any intention of doing anything to reform health insurance practices in the first place, cares a hoot about any American who can't afford private health insurance, and ever had any other objective than to do everything in his power to make sure that anything that did finally get passed was going to end up being a giveaway to the insurance industry that the Republicans could then say they voted against.

I am personally disgusted with the DLC Democrats who have basically acted at Republican Lite and have whored this bill up for their Insurance and Pharmaceutical Company masters, and I'm tired of defending the Democrats and Obama's efforts at reach a bipartisan bill against the unfounded accusations of trying to ram health care down the Republicans throats.

If that accusation was true, we would have had single payer, Medicare style health reform back in April.

So I hope that the Liberal / Progressive wing of the Democratic Party finally stands up and says enough of this pandering to the Lieberman's, Nelsons, and other Insurance Company Shills and kills this bill when it comes out of conference for the final vote. It is a bad bill and we are better off without this type of reform. If the Republicans will consider this a victory, fine. Maybe it will wake Obama up to who they really are and the fact we Liberals aren't going to roll over for him anymore just because he ain't George Bush.

And if this makes Obama a 1 termer, that's his fault. He should have pursued the liberal and progressive agenda he ran on and was elected for instead of being another Bill Clinton who keeps his zipper up.

 

[Cuba]

I am personally disgusted with the DLC Democrats who have basically acted at Republican Lite and have whored this bill up for their Insurance and Pharmaceutical Company masters, and I'm tired of defending the Democrats and Obama's efforts at reach a bipartisan bill against the unfounded accusations of trying to ram health care down the Republicans throats.

If that accusation was true, we would have had single payer, Medicare style health reform back in April.

So I hope that the Liberal / Progressive wing of the Democratic Party finally stands up and says enough of this pandering to the Lieberman's, Nelsons, and other Insurance Company Shills and kills this bill when it comes out of conference for the final vote. It is a bad bill and we are better off without this type of reform. If the Republicans will consider this a victory, fine. Maybe it will wake Obama up to who they really are and the fact we Liberals aren't going to roll over for him anymore just because he ain't George Bush.

And if this makes Obama a 1 termer, that's his fault. He should have pursued the liberal and progressive agenda he ran on and was elected for instead of being another Bill Clinton who keeps his zipper up.

My God are we actually agreeing here?!? Will wonders never cease. Blame game aside, this is a failure. With control of both houses, a filibuster proof majority, and extreme liberal president, coming off of historic wins with massive support, and we got the worst of both worlds. Obama failed. He did not lead, and did not seem to care in the least what actually got passed as long as it was SOMETHING, ANYTHING! that he could claim was historic reform and call it a victory. I hate to say I told you so, but I did. Some good will come from this though (besides for the insurance industry and Nebraskans), the blind faith is evaporating now and perhaps more of us will think critically about what we are being fed in the future.

 

[wrightme43]

It never did. If it had anything to do with helping the American people everyone would support it. If the elected lying bastiches would just do thier job there would be no partisian anything. If something is good the people will support it. There was never any intention of actually helping people, only to skim more money out of those that work and into the pockets of the people who pay the sen, con, and unions. Bush screwed us, and Obama and crew are screwing us.

 

[Oscar54]

My God are we actually agreeing here?!? Will wonders never cease. Blame game aside, this is a failure. With control of both houses, a filibuster proof majority, and extreme liberal president, coming off of historic wins with massive support, and we got the worst of both worlds. Obama failed. He did not lead, and did not seem to care in the least what actually got passed as long as it was SOMETHING, ANYTHING! that he could claim was historic reform and call it a victory. I hate to say I told you so, but I did. Some good will come from this though (besides for the insurance industry and Nebraskans), the blind faith is evaporating now and perhaps more of us will think critically about what we are being fed in the future.

No we don't agree on this or anything else. My reasons for wanting this bill killed are entirely different from yours.

Nothing you have written has ever given a hint of objectivity or open mindedness towards an Obama Presidency or to health care reform.

I have not read one of your posts or heard or saw any comprehensive proposal put forth by you or the Republicans that would give any credence to your's or their purported interest in helping unemployed or poor Americans afford health care coverage.

Obama is a disapointment in that he, like you, believes that Corporations care about anything other than their own profits. That they actually want competition to squeeze their profit margins, or in the case of Health Insurance, that they care about their policyholders health more then the premiums.

You accuse me of living in an alternate reality, and compared to you I do. The main difference is, I know when I'm getting screwed and have been sold down the river. I'm not so sure you do.

 

[wrightme43]

Well ByGod I do agree with you anyway. Obama is a disappointment. Of course he never had your, or my best intrest at heart. He just lied like every other lcsmf in office. The good part is that you believed him. Most of us didnt.

 

[Cuba]

No we don't agree on this or anything else.

Hahaha yes we do! This is a bad bill. It does not solve the problem. It is great for the insurance industry, not for the American people. Obama sold out and broke his promisses.

I know when I'm getting screwed and have been sold down the river.

O RLY? I've been telling you this from the start, it's just taken you a whole year to realize it! Your messiah is a slippery politician from Chicago with zero executive experience that took more money from big business than any politician in history. What fantasy land where you living in? I'm just glad the kool-aid finally wore off. :welcome::thumbup:

 

[Oscar54]

Hahaha yes we do! This is a bad bill. It does not solve the problem. It is great for the insurance industry, not for the American people. Obama sold out and broke his promisses.



O RLY? I've been telling you this from the start, it's just taken you a whole year to realize it! Your messiah is a slippery politician from Chicago with zero executive experience that took more money from big business than any politician in history. What fantasy land where you living in? I'm just glad the kool-aid finally wore off. :welcome::thumbup:

Yah you are the wise one, the all knowing, can't slip one by you.

Been crying with Glenn lately about how unpatriotic Obama is?

 

[Cuba]

Sour grapes, eh? Never in history has a president's popularity plummeted so far so fast. His entire strategy of Rahm it down their throats with a supermajority is off the rails and they are now left backpeddalling with their plans in tatters, all because they are so incredibly extreme and partisan that they cannot pass health care even with a 59 seat majority.

Extremeists like yourself are very much the minority. The majority of Americans disagree with Obama's policies. Health care, cap and tax, the "stimulus", extreme deficit spending, partisan politics, earmarks, tax cheating cabinet members, AIG bonuses, Homeland Security failures, unemployment, civilian trials for terrorists, amnesty for illegals, total lack of promissed transparency, backroom deals and payoffs to Florida, Louisiana, Nebraska, the unions, George Soros, etc... none of these things are popular, the majority of Americans do not support these activities and initiatives- look at the polls, look at these election results. Obama's initial popularity was based on faith, on the "hope" that things would "change", I've admitted he talked a good game, I just didn't believe him. What we actually got though was just a LOT more of the same problems we had before.

I voted against him because he was a politician with no experience, who voted the party line on the rare occasions he actually voted at all, and was campaigning for president the moment he was elected to his first term in the Senate. I did not believe what he was promissing. I also strongly disagreed with his cap and tax ideas and economic understandings (or lack thereof) in general. McCain was the lessor of two evils. You voted for him because you had faith, you were told what you wanted to hear, and you believed it. Now we see what has transpired, and unfortunately my concerns have largely been validated. You, like Obama, would prefer to play the blame game. Bush's fault, obstructionists fault, special interests fault, but at the end of the day, with supermajority, the dems failed miserably to deliver on any of it. No compromises, no listening to what the people actually want, no bipartisanship, no delivery on the actual stated goals of the reform, just extreme liberal wish lists voted into law by buying votes with taxpayer cash. Unfortunately for both of you the majority of Americans just aren't buying it any more. We wanted checks and balances and got them. Now he will either move towards the center (where the vast majority of Americans are, and where he promissed he would be) or face a Clinton like wooping in November.

 

[Tailgate]

The more I hear Obama, the more I'm disappointed. Everytime he talks he sounds like a robot reading script. Gawd, I wish he would talk off the cuff once-in-awhile. Giving Miranda rights to the Detroit bomber, running up a huge deficit and now promising (upcoming State of Union speech) to "freeze" domestic spending while continuing to blow the other 80% or so budget on massive foreign country rebuilding.