who would you vote for and why?

the next President of the United States

  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 77 46.1%
  • John McCain

    Votes: 81 48.5%
  • Bob Barr (Libertarian Party)

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • Ralph Nader (Green Party)

    Votes: 2 1.2%
  • waiting for VP choices

    Votes: 1 0.6%
  • not going to vote

    Votes: 5 3.0%

  • Total voters
    167
First, let me proudly say I am a liberal and a Democrat.

Just as a quick aside, most of what we enjoy and take for granted today is because of liberal and/or Democratic Party policies or principals. We live in a "Liberal" democracy! Meaning the founders generally believed that we are all equals, with inalienable rights. The bill of rights in the constitution, is the most important part, and what allows us to have this conversation, and saves us from the tyranny of the rich.

Our country is in crisis because we have been sold this fantasy that free market capitalism is democracy, and that the purpose of our government is to grease the skids for the multi-national corporations and let them do as they please in the quest for profit and that the mythical free-hand of the market is going to police all of this and make life better for everyone like magic. Basically, as Gordon Gecko said in the movie Wall Street, “Greed is good.”

The purveyors of this non-sense have mainly been the conservative Republicans, though the Democratic Leadership Council (e.g. Bill Clinton, a Republican with a heart) also subscribe but to a lesser degree.

In 1980 the majority of Americans bought into trickle-down economics and elected Ronald Reagan as president. The result of these policies, that have basically dominated public policy for the last 28 years, has been the gutting of the federal tax base where the wealthiest among us pay a far smaller percentage of their income in taxes than does a family of 4 living on $40,000 a year. People like us received a pittance in the reduction of our taxes to the tune of a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, while the wealthy received tens of thousands to millions.

The highest paid executive in 2007, James Simons, earned $1.7 billion trading stocks as a hedge fund manager. (A mere $817,300 an hour). And for this money he produced absolutely nothing for the economy. Yet he will pay at most pay 35% in taxes (assuming it is all short term profit) or as little as 15%, while my total tax rate is 35% and I make $65K a year. I would have to work over 26,000 years (20,000 years before recorded history) to earn that much money (without interest), yet I listen to people everyday who earn less then I complain about how unfair it is to tax the super-rich at a higher rate. If Mr. Simon were taxed at 99% (which I am not advocating but using for illustration), he would still have $17 million after tax. Poor guy!

So now we have a situation where the United States, that was the wealthiest nation in the world, the world’s largest creditor, the world’s largest manufacturing nation, with a mere $1 trillion dollars in debt when Reagan was elected, with good roads, affordable college tuition, and you could deduct your car and credit card interest, and the average American carried only 60% of their annual income in debt, to the largest debtor nation in the world, with crumbling infrastructure, our kids graduating from college with 10's of thousands of $'s in debt, and $9 trillion in national debt, the dollar is worth 2/3's of what it did when the strict constructionists on the Supreme Court put a retard in the White House, and all the good paying manufacturing jobs are in Mexico or China, real income for the average American has stagnated, the real estate market and banking industry are in meltdown and gas is $4 a gallon, (but no one is out of gas?), and the average American now carries 120% of their annual income in debt. Basically, Reaganomics and conservative politicians and businessmen have ruined our country. But they still have a shot at the White House in 08.

In short (ya, for this long winded tirade) the Republicans lied us into a war in Iraq, to destabilize the region, and allow their buddies to war profiteer in the billions, while killing over 4,000 of our sons and daughters and maiming tens of thousands more, and their economic policies are bankrupting our nation, they feed us a constant diet of fear from terrorists, yet 43% of the people recently polled are still going to vote Republican? WTF?

So if you believe these lies, 1) Liberals hate America, 2) Poor people are only poor because they are lazy, 3) Health Insurance companies don’t deny benefits but Government funded Universal Single Payer Health Insurance would, 4) Corporations, (who’s sole existence they say is to enhance stockholder value), care about the USA, creating good paying jobs here, or anything else except profit, 5) that if we could only drill for oil where ever Exxon/Mobil wants gas would still be a $1 a gallon, regardless of the fact they have 160 million acres of oil leases they have not bothered to develop yet, 6) Global Warming is a hoax and Environmentalist love rocks and hate people and progress, and 7) if we only cut taxes some more the economy would take off like the Roadrunner on acid, then you will probably believe this:

“Your FZ6 is really a big bong pipe, and if you slap your lips around the tail pipe with the engine running at 8,000 rpm’s, and inhale like Clinton didn’t, you will achieve Nirvana!”

I need a beer. I’m voting for Obama. And the Dolphins will win the Superbowl (not)! Or maybe I should smoke my FZ6 bong? I sure at this point you probably think I should!

Luv Ya’s, Peace, and ride safe.

Lewis
 
I've lived in AZ all my life, and that statement is pretty much true. Believe it or not McCain used to be a good senator. But being a senator for 20 years takes it's toll. He's flip flopped so much I could state two contradicting views and he'd agree with both of them.

And yeah, most of our politicians are corrupt. Even a small time representative from Nor. AZ (where I am) is just now going through a trial for stuff he has been doing for years.

AZ has been my "second" home for 30+ years, Grandparents in Wickenburg and later in Phoenix, aunt in PHX, my mom is in Patagonia. My ex used to work for a travel agency owned by Keeting in the late '80's, of the stories on that one. AZ politics are anything but boring! :D
 
mdr - You've got two thoughts mixed into one statement, 1) Yuppie Scum - Arugala eating, Whole Foods shopping, Preis driving, "I know better than you because I'm so aware...", Starbucks drinking Yuppie Scum. 2) Attended a racist church.

Where he worships has nothing to do with the scum noun. I really don't care where he worships, or what he worhsips, that is his business. That is the beauty of our country. Now when he wants to be elected to the most powerful office in the world after attending a racist chuch for 20 years, that I have an issue with.

As far as a socialist, yes he is. He the THE most left leaning sentor in the entire US Senate. He is more left than either of the Clintons. McCain is more of a moderate than right leaning. Remember Communist and Socalist are two very different things, many countries in Europe are socalist. Obama wants a large Federal program to fix all of the major issues. He does not want the state of local government to find a solition but to adopt his vision.

It that clearer now?

Its somewhat clearer. However, I still don't see why you equate yuppies and scum. I'm a little old for the yuppie title but I'd probably buy a Prius if I was in the market for a new car. I don't care for Starbucks but I'll admit paying $4.00 for a cup of coffee a few times in my life. Does that mean that if I knew what arugula was that I'd be scum in your mind? ;)

I agree that Obama is pretty far left of center. And socialist does NOT equal communist for those that know better. I just thought you might be addressing your comments to people who didn't know the difference. My bad.

I just thought we ought to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. No offense meant.
 
First, let me proudly say I am a liberal and a Democrat.

Just as a quick aside, most of what we enjoy and take for granted today is because of liberal and/or Democratic Party policies or principals. We live in a "Liberal" democracy! Meaning the founders generally believed that we are all equals, with inalienable rights. The bill of rights in the constitution, is the most important part, and what allows us to have this conversation, and saves us from the tyranny of the rich.

Our country is in crisis because we have been sold this fantasy that free market capitalism is democracy, and that the purpose of our government is to grease the skids for the multi-national corporations and let them do as they please in the quest for profit and that the mythical free-hand of the market is going to police all of this and make life better for everyone like magic. Basically, as Gordon Gecko said in the movie Wall Street, “Greed is good.”

The purveyors of this non-sense have mainly been the conservative Republicans, though the Democratic Leadership Council (e.g. Bill Clinton, a Republican with a heart) also subscribe but to a lesser degree.

In 1980 the majority of Americans bought into trickle-down economics and elected Ronald Reagan as president. The result of these policies, that have basically dominated public policy for the last 28 years, has been the gutting of the federal tax base where the wealthiest among us pay a far smaller percentage of their income in taxes than does a family of 4 living on $40,000 a year. People like us received a pittance in the reduction of our taxes to the tune of a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, while the wealthy received tens of thousands to millions.

The highest paid executive in 2007, James Simons, earned $1.7 billion trading stocks as a hedge fund manager. (A mere $817,300 an hour). And for this money he produced absolutely nothing for the economy. Yet he will pay at most pay 35% in taxes (assuming it is all short term profit) or as little as 15%, while my total tax rate is 35% and I make $65K a year. I would have to work over 26,000 years (20,000 years before recorded history) to earn that much money (without interest), yet I listen to people everyday who earn less then I complain about how unfair it is to tax the super-rich at a higher rate. If Mr. Simon were taxed at 99% (which I am not advocating but using for illustration), he would still have $17 million after tax. Poor guy!

So now we have a situation where the United States, that was the wealthiest nation in the world, the world’s largest creditor, the world’s largest manufacturing nation, with a mere $1 trillion dollars in debt when Reagan was elected, with good roads, affordable college tuition, and you could deduct your car and credit card interest, and the average American carried only 60% of their annual income in debt, to the largest debtor nation in the world, with crumbling infrastructure, our kids graduating from college with 10's of thousands of $'s in debt, and $9 trillion in national debt, the dollar is worth 2/3's of what it did when the strict constructionists on the Supreme Court put a retard in the White House, and all the good paying manufacturing jobs are in Mexico or China, real income for the average American has stagnated, the real estate market and banking industry are in meltdown and gas is $4 a gallon, (but no one is out of gas?), and the average American now carries 120% of their annual income in debt. Basically, Reaganomics and conservative politicians and businessmen have ruined our country. But they still have a shot at the White House in 08.

In short (ya, for this long winded tirade) the Republicans lied us into a war in Iraq, to destabilize the region, and allow their buddies to war profiteer in the billions, while killing over 4,000 of our sons and daughters and maiming tens of thousands more, and their economic policies are bankrupting our nation, they feed us a constant diet of fear from terrorists, yet 43% of the people recently polled are still going to vote Republican? WTF?

So if you believe these lies, 1) Liberals hate America, 2) Poor people are only poor because they are lazy, 3) Health Insurance companies don’t deny benefits but Government funded Universal Single Payer Health Insurance would, 4) Corporations, (who’s sole existence they say is to enhance stockholder value), care about the USA, creating good paying jobs here, or anything else except profit, 5) that if we could only drill for oil where ever Exxon/Mobil wants gas would still be a $1 a gallon, regardless of the fact they have 160 million acres of oil leases they have not bothered to develop yet, 6) Global Warming is a hoax and Environmentalist love rocks and hate people and progress, and 7) if we only cut taxes some more the economy would take off like the Roadrunner on acid, then you will probably believe this:

“Your FZ6 is really a big bong pipe, and if you slap your lips around the tail pipe with the engine running at 8,000 rpm’s, and inhale like Clinton didn’t, you will achieve Nirvana!”

I need a beer. I’m voting for Obama. And the Dolphins will win the Superbowl (not)! Or maybe I should smoke my FZ6 bong? I sure at this point you probably think I should!

Luv Ya’s, Peace, and ride safe.

Lewis

I disagree with Lewis on several of his points, so I agree, but that is what I love about this country, we can disagree and not shoot each other, been to places where shooting is the norm.

The other thing I like about this country is if the person you voted for didn't win you will have an opportunity to vote again in 2, 4 or 6 years. Sometimes your horse wins, sometimes it loses, no big deal.

We need to go riding some time and then drink a beer! :iconbeer:

:Sport:
 
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McCain for me....

Taxes -- obama wants to raise them BIG time.... I am paying plenty already

Experience -- I would not want someone with 3 years experience running my business, therefore I do not want someone with Obama's lack of experience running our economy, policies and military

I liked Ron Paul....but now I will vote McCain

thanks for saving me some typing. Total agreement.

:Sport:
 
Although neither candidate is perfect, I will be voting for McCain. I like his stance on energy policy: domestic oil and nuclear power. I think that's a huge problem right now. Iraq is a tricky subject, and honestly I don't know what the best thing to do is. Overall I'm conservative and that's why I'll vote for him.
 
Did someone above actually say the President himself runs the United States? ;) Imagine if GW "actually" ran this country and what state we'd be in? For Real? The man is a true puppet!
 
I really liked Ron Paul, but since he's not an option really, and I DON'T want a liberal with a voting record that goes against all of my favorite freedoms, yet at the same time promises rewards for ne'er do wells, I'm going with McCain.

I know he's another Republican, but I just don't see Obama's empty promises as being feasible for the future good of this country, let alone FEASIBLE in the first place.

Free healthcare? We already have it, it's called Medicaid/Medicare, and it's the most abused system in human history.

I pick up people all day and night who would rather send the taxpayers, (since they aren't taxpayers themselves,) and rack up a $1500.00 bill that neither they nor Medicaid pays. The average payout on a $500.00 ambulance bill is around $213.00.
How would you feel being hired for $20.00/hr and then having your employer give you $5.00/hr and say, "Sorry, that's all we're gving you."

If you think healthcare is expensive and of poor quality now, wait 'til it's free.

I don't like the Democrat's platfrom or their propensity to hand out my tax dollars as "freebies".
 
I disagree with Lewis on several of his points, so I agree, but that is what I love about this country, we can disagree and not shoot each other, been to places where shooting is the norm.

The other thing I like about this country is if the person you voted for didn't win you will have an opportunity to vote again in 2, 4 or 6 years. Sometimes your horse wins, sometimes it loses, no big deal.

We need to go riding some time and then drink a beer! :iconbeer:

:Sport:

Hellgate:

I just want you to know that I respect what you are doing. I just feel that you should not have been sent there in the first place. You should be home with us. Not risking your life and your fellow soldiers lives for W's occupation. If only he had walked in your shoes when he had the chance you probably wouldn't be there.

I would be honored to have the chance to ride with you and then have multiple beers.

Lew
 
Its somewhat clearer. However, I still don't see why you equate yuppies and scum. I'm a little old for the yuppie title but I'd probably buy a Prius if I was in the market for a new car. I don't care for Starbucks but I'll admit paying $4.00 for a cup of coffee a few times in my life. Does that mean that if I knew what arugula was that I'd be scum in your mind? ;)

I agree that Obama is pretty far left of center. And socialist does NOT equal communist for those that know better. I just thought you might be addressing your comments to people who didn't know the difference. My bad.

I just thought we ought to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. No offense meant.

A lot of what I was saying was in jest. Sen. Obama made a joke several months ago about the price of arugala. Arugala is a tendy lettuce. He made the joke in front of mainly blue-collar audience and it went over like a lead balloon. The response was that Sen. Obama was out of touch with blue-collar workers and was one of the "Yuppie" elite. Yuppie Elite being those who like to tell others how wrong they are in how the live (you need to drive a Pirus, but I need my SUV to go mountian biking), and it others don't agree with the YE, the YE have no tollerance of others.

As far as Sen. Obama being a candidate I think it is great and I'm glad he made the cut. In fact with the final three we had it were great. It shows the world what the US is really about, anyone has a shot at being President and we are a melting pot nation, that is what makes our country great.

Neither candidate fully appeals to me, they seldom do.

When I look at the things that are important to me I will vote for McCain. I describe myself as a fiscal conservative, and a social moderate and I think he is closest to what works for me. He is more of a moderate than a conservative.

Oh BTW...I have an Obama sign in my front yard, my wife is a Texas Obama deligate! She's a Hippie. :eek: We never talk politics.

No offense taken at all, anyone on this board who rides an FZ is a friend of mine. So J and Sportrider, you better get an FZ in the household!

:thumbup:
 
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I vote McCain, I agree with him on his energy policies. we should be drilling our own oil, at a time when gas is over $4.00 a Gallon, Diesel fuel over $5.00, something needs to be done. if I was on the fence this issue alone would push me over. Obama is against drilling off shore, and opening up the anwr for exploration. most of the Dems say it won't help us, it would be over 3 years before a single barrel of oil could be produced. thats been going on since the gas crunch of the 70's. if we had been drilling then and building new refineries, maybe we wouldn't be so dependent on foreign oil now. there are many points Obama makes that sound good, but he doesn't say how he will do it. an example. homeland security, he states he wants to secure chemical plants, nuclear facilities, drinking water ect. shouldn't the first step be to secure the borders?
Its to late to secure the boarders when the the enemy is already on the inside?
 
Since we're actually voting for a Commander and Chief and not someone who “changes” the world's environment or economy in four years, I’m going with McCain. Obama knows as much about running the military as he does about his own religion. Unfortunately McCain is weak competition and the American public believes that what Obama says is actually truth. Do people not realize this guy, who calls himself an American, will not even say our pledge of allegiance, and who was sworn into his seat in the senate on the Koran and not the Bible?

That's bullsh*t about the pledge and the koran. That cr*p has been debunked in the press over and over and people still put it out there as if it was true. Here's the truth :

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In |
 
Ill be voting for Mccain, I believe he is the lesser of two evils. I believe that Obama is a Marxist, and I dont want HIS form of government.

Huckabee was my guy, but that didnt work out too well. I would have loved to see a Huckabee/ Romney ticket. Great social conservatism, followed by some good business sence. That sounded like a winner, if they could have stopped the bickering.

Drummer: Obama is pretty far to the left, but to hear him called Marxist is a little confusing. The central theme of Marxist communism is state ownership of the means of production. At least thats what I recall from school. How exactly does Obama fit in that?
 
I really liked Ron Paul, but since he's not an option really, and I DON'T want a liberal with a voting record that goes against all of my favorite freedoms, yet at the same time promises rewards for ne'er do wells, I'm going with McCain.

I know he's another Republican, but I just don't see Obama's empty promises as being feasible for the future good of this country, let alone FEASIBLE in the first place.

Free healthcare? We already have it, it's called Medicaid/Medicare, and it's the most abused system in human history.

I pick up people all day and night who would rather send the taxpayers, (since they aren't taxpayers themselves,) and rack up a $1500.00 bill that neither they nor Medicaid pays. The average payout on a $500.00 ambulance bill is around $213.00.
How would you feel being hired for $20.00/hr and then having your employer give you $5.00/hr and say, "Sorry, that's all we're gving you."

If you think healthcare is expensive and of poor quality now, wait 'til it's free.

I don't like the Democrat's platfrom or their propensity to hand out my tax dollars as "freebies".

Why is it that a $500 ambulance ride is free and if they called a taxi for $20 the senior citizen would have to pay it themselves? Doesn't the current system itself encourage stupidity like this... (I can provide lots more examples) Wouldn't you like to change that system? I would...
 
"Change we can believe in" .... that is thoroughly meaningless. He is the most left wing person in the Senate. I may not agree with McCain on all points but if Obama gets voted in, you can mark it down, this country will not last.
 
I vote for McCain. As a recovering liberal, Obama's tax plan and "wealth redistribution" plan are very scary. Taxing business is stupid, business do not pay taxes, consumers do, economics 101. Just what a fragile economy needs is more taxes on business and other profitable industries. I have a 401K and that has mutual funds which invest in oil companies. Oil companies are not evil as some liberals would have you believe, the government makes more money per gallon than the oil companies. I want my money in my pocket because I will buy products that grow the economy, money in government hands rarely helps the economy.

That and Obama comes from the Chicago political machine, all I have to say is Tony Rezko. Hope Change, Hope Change, Hope Change, I do not want hope or drastic change, I want methodical, precise and continuous DOWNSIZING in Washington (and my state too). If I have to watch my spending so should government.

Oh, and for the record I never voted for Bush, I can not stand his weak dollar policy, which is why gas is so high. In Europe the Euro has stayed above the dollar so gas or oil prices have only doubled v. the tripling we have experienced.

Here is a Newsweek quote: "Obama released a national ad saying he would "fast-track alternatives" to imported oil. On closer examination, his proposal is to spend $150 billion over the coming decade on energy research. Ten years doesn't sound all that "fast" to us, and there's no guarantee that the research will result in less oil being imported."

Here is why Wall Street fears Obama (It is the taxes): Why Wall Street is scared of Obama - MSN Money
I just do not trust Obama, my choice was Thompson (Fred, not Tommy) but it was not to be. So I will vote for the Republican, even though I am a Conservative, and yes, there is a difference.
 
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