Cam chain tensioner braked into pieces and assebled again. don't open it up!

[ozgurakman]

Hello. Yesterday I braked into pieces my fazer's cct and fix it today.

I were fixed a 2010 kawasaki zx6r cct a while ago, it's a simple rod (with stoper) and a spring. Because of sping aging, cct wasn't extending enough and it was weak. So I made a spacer for it. Spring got some preload with washer and I increased the kawi's cct's spring preload until desired force for cct working.
It's pretty fine for now. I think it'll run for 2 seasons more with that cct without problems, because it's really simple design and stoper's spring is independed from main spring (which extrudes cam tensioner).

so I decided to take a look what's what inside of fz6 cct... And it's a TERRIBLE THINKING.
DON'T TAKE IT APART INTO PIECES. IT'S VERY VERY HARD TO ASSEMBLE ALL OF THAT PARTS PROPERLY!!!:spank:

Also it's not working truly correct now:
I can extrude the CCT with flat screwdriver from it's bottom. I don't know what that screw's name (the screw which shrinks cct's rod).
But when I pushed the cct rod to inside, there is not any movement so locking mechanism is working (in fact there is no locking mechanism because cct extends with rotary movements and if I push the rod, I'm applying horizontal movement to cct so there is no shrinking).

I'll buy a brand new cct from Yami dealer couple months later.

https://flic.kr/p/qRcZHd

https://flic.kr/p/qTqvPL

outside to inside: cct barrel, wider and spring, spacer, thinner spring, yellow rod.

cct rod is fixing to yellow rod's grooved end and thinner spring preloads cct rod and and yellow rod.

wider spring rotates yellow rod and yellow rod with cct rod extrudes (because yellow rod's grooves).

If wider spring not preloaded truly, cct not extends itself.
I tried maybe 100 times but there is no perfect working condition. probably I weakened that spring when trying to fix the cct again and again

Sorry for my lacky and diry English. I hope this thread will warn everyone and no one will broke their properly working cct.

Thank you for all comments.
If anyone has an idea for make my bike's cct stronger, I'll appreciate for that (expect buying a new one :eyebrow

p.s. to admin/supervisor: I couldn't embed the photos correctly, please fix that for me. Thanks.

 

[FinalImpact]

Sorry man!
I see two weak links or parts that could fail. The small outer spring which winds up - breaks its ends, or in your case, if disassembled, loosing count of how tight to "pre-wind" that spring.

The other is the Worm Drive. Although the threaded shank looks like a screw its function is that of worm drive as the thing that looks like threads, actually act as a gear. Thats how it locks itself.

A worm drive is like an Autos "Rack and Pinion" steering. The little shaft can apply and hold a greater force with little input. In this case, the wind up spring.
Can you see the contact area where the worm gear contacts the plunger? Is it damaged?

It looks like the smaller spring over the shaft applies all the tension. Thus the screw end with a slot would need a washer to increase preload.

The Wind up spring; I don't see what locks against. But is basically keeps constant tension on the screw. I just don't see how from the picture. That said, I could be in error.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I don't see any tabs (or bends) on the end of that larger spring (with the red circles).

Unless there's something machined VERY accuratly inside there, I don't know how its going to grab and help in the function (unless the larger spring has a broken end)

I'd like to have a look at it (hands on) and see specifically how it works, the weak points, etc.

Ozgur, if you you want to ship all those parts to me, you can order your new one and I'll ship it from the states(mail it to me initially) to you (if its worthwhile $ wise).

 

[ozgurakman]

I don't see any tabs (or bends) on the end of that larger spring (with the red circles).

Unless there's something machined VERY accuratly inside there, I don't know how its going to grab and help in the function (unless the larger spring has a broken end)

I'd like to have a look at it (hands on) and see specifically how it works, the weak points, etc.

Ozgur, if you you want to ship all those parts to me, you can order your new one and I'll ship it from the states(mail it to me initially) to you (if its worthwhile $ wise).

thank you for your nice offer, Scott. I wish to send parts for inspection to you but cct is working properly now. And cct is not worthwhile if I buy from usa, except DISCONTINUED RonAyers.com

Also, there is no wear signs on rod/worm plunger and the larger spring/ spring ends is not broken.

I just wanted to warn the people and show how is inside of fz6 CCT.


I contacted to Aydin (a.k.a. Fazil nickname in the forum) for proper cct working to be sure if mine is working properly.

I'll not buy new CCT for now; maybe after couple km's later i'll decide to buy, who knows

I don't want to hijack my thread but I wanted to share with you.
today cct totally came out from it's hole because of cct's screws loosened itself
I immediately killed the engine with kill switch and pushed the bike to service line. found new screws and fixed the cct correctly. I Opened crankcase plug and turned the crank with #12 wrench with hand, to be sure if cam chain jumped but I was lucky, it looks like there is no valve/piston kissing. tried a shorter electric starter (maybe 0.5 sec) there was no problem. so I decided to start, and WALA it works fine.
God bless Yamaha engineers, they made great bike It works even without cct for kilometers
I was soooo lucky because I didn't changed any gear when driving without cct (I weren't know what happened until I stop for red sign because bike's sound not changed until rpm downs) so cam chain weren't jumped.

After this, I'll certainly use locktite for every bolts/screws for sure and will clean bolt/screw seats with degreaser.

 

[fazil]

Very lucky indeed.

I've recently removed my cct for inspection, but i didn't use locktite when installing back. What does service manual says about it, loctite recomended ?

 

[FinalImpact]

WOW! That could have been bad!

Aydin, I don't see a need for it. Just be certain it is backed out completely (Turn internal Screw CW) BEFORE tightening the two bolts. Otherwise CCT puts pressure on chain guide & chain and it "feels like its tight" but its just bound up. Turn it CW again before seating two bolts.

Looked at FSM, It doesn't call for any loctite.
Timing chain tensioner bolt
M6, Qty = 2
12 Nm (1.2 m·kg, 8.7 ft·lb)

O/T
had to laugh as ONE section of the FSM is correct:

REMOVING THE CAMSHAFTS
1. Remove:
• Pickup rotor cover
Refer to "PICKUP ROTOR"
2. Align:
• “T” mark “a” on the pickup rotor (with the crankcase mating surface “b”)
a. Turn the crankshaft clockwise.
b. When piston #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke, align the “T” mark “a” on the pickup rotor with the crankcase mating surface
“b”.
BLAH BLAH BLAH........

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Also, there is no wear signs on rod/worm plunger and the larger spring/ spring ends is not broken.


I contacted to Aydin (a.k.a. Fazil nickname in the forum) for proper cct working to be sure if mine is working properly.

I don't want to hijack my thread but I wanted to share with you.
today cct totally came out from it's hole because of cct's screws loosened itself
I immediately killed the engine with kill switch and pushed the bike to service line. found new screws and fixed the cct correctly. I Opened crankcase plug and turned the crank with #12 wrench with hand, to be sure if cam chain jumped but I was lucky, it looks like there is no valve/piston kissing. tried a shorter electric starter (maybe 0.5 sec) there was no problem. so I decided to start, and WALA it works fine.


After this, I'll certainly use locktite for every bolts/screws for sure and will clean bolt/screw seats with degreaser.

You sure did get real lucky....

As Randy posted, you shouldn't need loctite if torqued down fully. Did you happen to notice if there was any loctite residue left on the threads(from the factory)?

Randy, I know you had your CCT out doing a recent valve adjustment. Did your two bolts have any loctite residue on the retaining bolts?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just be certain it is backed out completely (Turn internal Screw CCW) BEFORE tightening the two bolts. Otherwise CCT puts pressure on chain guide & chain and it "feels like its tight" but its just bound up. Turn it CCW again before seating two bolts.

Maybe I'm mis-reading this, but the internal, accessable main screw, BUT to retract the CCT for installation, it turns clockwise, NOT counter clockwise (with hand pressure pushing it in).

I believe a new CCT comes already retracted with a small tab, to keep it retracted, until installed. Then when you pull the tab, the CCT expands outwards to put tension on the chain..

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ Nothing on it. Naked threads.

Yep, error there - turn it the proper direction to retract it! :tard:

Obviously you and I have not bought a new one, But because these have a retractor option and there is NO access to pull a pin from the end once installed, I suspect there is no pin but IDK for certain. I didn't see a hole that would allow it to be locked and yanked. Maybe a special bolt through the end tho?? :don'tknow:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

^^ Nothing on it. Naked threads. Thanks

Yep, error there - turn it the proper direction to retract it! :tard:

Obviously you and I have not bought a new one, But because these have a retractor option and there is NO access to pull a pin from the end once installed, I suspect there is no pin but IDK for certain. I didn't see a hole that would allow it to be locked and yanked. Maybe a special bolt through the end tho?? :don'tknow:

As I re-call seeing(either here or on the FJR forum), its not a pin but it appears to be a "T" shaped, thin piece of plastic.

I think Aydin replaced his with new.

[MENTION=6038]fazil[/MENTION]