when under heavy front braking it is indeed very easy to lock the rear.
Which brake to use?
- Thread starter AcesLA07
- Start date
AcesLA07
Junior Member
Yes I'm definitely getting abs on my next bike. What bikes come with it?
Lots of BMWs, the new CBR 1000/600, SV650s from 2007 and on, probably some more I'm not sure about.
mercm3
newbie still dammit
newbie asking what might be a dumb question. When I took the MSF classes they mentioned part of motorcycling was muscle memory, if one doesn't normally practice using the back brake how does one remember to use it during emergency breaking? Or do people who use front brake only also only use front during emergency breaking?
FizzySix
Drunken Philosopher
Muscle memory and rear brake...here's my approach:
We know that it aids in stopping, but if locked it can actually hurt, so we're supposed to apply "a little" to load up the front wheel and decrease stopping distance without locking it...great advice, but how much is "a little" and how do I determine when it will lock?
Last year, I was doing some emergency braking practice in a parking lot. I was zooming across parking spots, using painted lines to mark my "start braking here" point, and was measuring how many lines it took me to stop. After a few go-arounds, I noticed some black lines in the lot where I was practicing...I was locking up my rear without knowing it! I couldn't even feel it, but I was doing it.
I picked some fresh spots, and kept at it.
Eventually, I got down to a short stopping distance while applying "a little" back brake just a fraction of a second prior to applying the front. That pressure-level is now "programmed in" to my right foot, and that's how much I use (progressively) when coming to a stop, which I think maximizes utilization of the rear brake without locking.
Like Rossi, I think trail-braking is for the track, not the street. We all know that the "traction pie" can only sustain so much braking vs. cornering traction, but what that percentage is and how to communicate that to your hand/foot is impossible to know without crashing a few times to understand the limits, so my approach is to lock/unlock it a few times in a parking lot, and use that to modulate your usage and establish a real-life limit...and more importantly, use your eyes to brake before the curve.
Hope this helps...your mileage may vary.
We know that it aids in stopping, but if locked it can actually hurt, so we're supposed to apply "a little" to load up the front wheel and decrease stopping distance without locking it...great advice, but how much is "a little" and how do I determine when it will lock?
Last year, I was doing some emergency braking practice in a parking lot. I was zooming across parking spots, using painted lines to mark my "start braking here" point, and was measuring how many lines it took me to stop. After a few go-arounds, I noticed some black lines in the lot where I was practicing...I was locking up my rear without knowing it! I couldn't even feel it, but I was doing it.
I picked some fresh spots, and kept at it.
Eventually, I got down to a short stopping distance while applying "a little" back brake just a fraction of a second prior to applying the front. That pressure-level is now "programmed in" to my right foot, and that's how much I use (progressively) when coming to a stop, which I think maximizes utilization of the rear brake without locking.
Like Rossi, I think trail-braking is for the track, not the street. We all know that the "traction pie" can only sustain so much braking vs. cornering traction, but what that percentage is and how to communicate that to your hand/foot is impossible to know without crashing a few times to understand the limits, so my approach is to lock/unlock it a few times in a parking lot, and use that to modulate your usage and establish a real-life limit...and more importantly, use your eyes to brake before the curve.
Hope this helps...your mileage may vary.
bcbikernurse
Junior Member
I was driving through town yesterday on my way home from work and there was a cager in front of me and some jerk pulled out in front of him making a left...the cager in front of me hit his brakes and as I saw the original guy do this I immediately slowed down big time. What I didn't expect was the cager in front of me to actually stop (he didn't need to) and give the other guy a dirty look! He sat there for several seconds staring at the guy!?! I reacted and I think I jumped on both brakes hard and my rear end fish tailed and I squealed the tire. It was funny because I didn't even realize I had done that until it was done. Good thing we were going slow to start with. Moral here is always, always, always watch and anticipate what others may or may not be doing! 
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Red Wazp
Super Member
I believe you can get the FZ6 with ABS in Europe, sucks we can't have it over here. I would pay the extra bucks in a heartbeat.
My FJR has ABS and I love it!!! Saved my a$$ many times,
Every street bike should have it.
robaho
Junior Member
My opinion is to use both brakes every time, unless doing low speed maneuvers in parking lots etc.
So far, I have had to make 2 emergency stops on my bike. I used both brakes, and downshifted at the same time. My back tire chirped a little bit both times, but did not skid.
Practice using both brakes, and the practice will pay off when you have to make that sudden stop!!!
So far, I have had to make 2 emergency stops on my bike. I used both brakes, and downshifted at the same time. My back tire chirped a little bit both times, but did not skid.
Practice using both brakes, and the practice will pay off when you have to make that sudden stop!!!
DaveOTZ
Junior Member
I hope Im not repeating this but my best advice would be to get to a MSS Basic Riders Course... I know guys riding for years tell me things they have learned during these courses....
I work with brain injured people, take the course I would almost say its as important as your helmet...
I work with brain injured people, take the course I would almost say its as important as your helmet...
DefyInertia
Former '04 FZ6 Rider
I couldn't disagree more.
To restrict use of the front brake to straight lines is to severely limit the control you have over your motorcycle.
*sigh*
Trail braking at the track is about going fast. Trail braking on the street is a different animal and it's about total control, not speed.
I would really like to try the new Honda CBR system.
That is why it is important to practice emergency braking on a regular basis. You will get use to acheiving that sweet spot as far as applying the right amount of pressure for both brakes that will provide you with the shortest stopping distance.
Remember, the distance isn't just the actual braking itself, but it also depends on the amount of time based on your perception and reaction time as well. So remember, it has to do with your mental capabilities as well. In short, you always have to stay sharp!
fcukyeah
Junior Member
:rockon:i don't use any brakes just stick your heel down it works just as well as the brembos ! nah just kidding use both but more on the front ,but both is good advise.................:Flip:
DiasDePlaya
Junior Member
Please se carefully this pic. This is really HARD BRAKING OVER A WET ROAD.
If you can brake this hard over wet road off course you can brake harder than this over a dry road.
Please, with a hand over your heart: Do you think that in this condition, when the rear wheel is close to take off, the rear brake have any possibility to help? As the rear wheel have close to no contact with the road is impossible that the rear brake can do something.
ALWAYS USE ONLY THE FRONT BRAKE!
The shorter stop distance is when the rear wheel fly few millimeters over the road, and in this condition the rear brake is just more weight that only add inertia to the bike.
FZ6Rrider
Junior Member
What I've been told by mechanics & from yamaha dealers is that you should be applying equall pressure to both the front and the back brake everytime you use them, and it should be intermitently (ex: don't slam hard on your brakes, just squeeze, release, squeeze, release, untill you come to a full stop) If you slam on them hard, you increase the risk of them locking up. brakes have never locked on me yet and I've been driving for a while, so thats what I would suggest doing :rockon:
Fred
M em b er e d
Please se carefully this pic. This is really HARD BRAKING OVER A WET ROAD.
I hate to take the wind out of your sails, but that's an ABS equipped bike. That's the only reason it's able to lift the rear end on wet roads.
http://image.superstreetbike.com/f/...27966+cr1+re0+ar1/2009-honda-cbr600rr-abs.jpg
Fred
DiasDePlaya
Junior Member
In my experience this is not a good way to brake. I prefer to pull slowly the front brake, this way the bike have time to transfer the weight to the front wheel. If you count "1,2" the bike have time enough to transfer the weight, then you can continue pulling hard the front brake.
The limit is when the front wheel sound like "chip-chip-chip", if the wheel sound like "chiiiiiiiiiiiip" release the brake immediately because you are losing the wheel and very close to a crash.
You can do the same over a wet road, the only difference is that the sound is different and is not easy to ear, then you must pull the brake with much more careful.
DiasDePlaya
Junior Member
I hate to take the wind out of your sails, but that's an ABS equipped bike. That's the only reason it's able to lift the rear end on wet roads.
Fred
Wow! This pic is incredible.
But sure if a ABS equipped bike can do it a good rider can do the same.
Fred
M em b er e d
Very true. A good rider could do that.
I couldn't.
Fred
I couldn't.
Fred
Raid The Revenge
Super Member
I wish I could've responded sooner.
Everyone has some very good points and I'd like to toss one of my own into the mix:
Depending on how hard you hit the brakes you'll want varying amounts between the front and rear, especially if you're turning.
You certainly wouldn't want to slam on both brakes while making a turn. The rear brake is great at slow speeds. The front provides the most stopping power. Both brakes together will stop you the fastest. Having two seperate brake systems adds more safety in case one fails. The rear brake is great when launching uphill.
Ultimately, try to use both brakes for domestic riding. In most cases, you'll want more pressure on your front brakes than the rear. Other people will have their own opinions, so it's a good idea to hear their ideas.
Everyone has some very good points and I'd like to toss one of my own into the mix:
Depending on how hard you hit the brakes you'll want varying amounts between the front and rear, especially if you're turning.
You certainly wouldn't want to slam on both brakes while making a turn. The rear brake is great at slow speeds. The front provides the most stopping power. Both brakes together will stop you the fastest. Having two seperate brake systems adds more safety in case one fails. The rear brake is great when launching uphill.
Ultimately, try to use both brakes for domestic riding. In most cases, you'll want more pressure on your front brakes than the rear. Other people will have their own opinions, so it's a good idea to hear their ideas.
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