Running FZ6 w/ No Rad and/or Coolant

[DefyInertia]

I'm NOT worried about overheating as I would only like to run the bike for a minute or two at idle.

I have new pipes that I would like to hear but currently do not have my radiator installed, the system has little or no water/wetter left in it, and the 5 or so hoses that connect to the rad are just sitting there open ended.

Any issues with sucking air into the system? Any lack of lubrication issues for the pump etc. that will come into play within just a few minutes? Any other issues? Should I try and be more mature and just wait to hear the new pipes until I've mended my radiator (couple weeks)?

Thanks :bow:

 

[steveindenmark]

Be patient and wait...whats the rush?

Steve

 

[reiobard]

well... DO NOT TAKE MY ADVISE!!!

But if it works like a car then there needs to be some temperature reached before the cooling system even tries to do anything, so you should be all set, but i would probably be to scared and I personally would wait...

 

[wolfc70]

I would not worry about a minute at idle with no coolant. Do not excessivly (sp?) rev the motor, as this puts intense heat in the head, and can cause warping and/or cracking. It can cause pressed in valve guides to loosen also.

I would do this; start bike and let idle for a few seconds, then blip the throttle a few times to hear the new exhaust, then shut down. You should be able to do this in a thirty second window.:noworries:

 

[schumy]

bike took 10 minues at idle to get warm. and it took me a bit of revving to get the fan to startworking. So i think you're set for at least 5 min of running on empty

 

[DefyInertia]

steveindenmark, just eager and excited, that's all. I've never had pipes on a bike and had not planned on putting them on my FZ6. Oh yeah, I also have friends who are egging me on

I would do this; start bike and let idle for a few seconds, then blip the throttle a few times to hear the new exhaust, then shut down. You should be able to do this in a thirty second window.:noworries:

That is exactly what I would be doing, thanks.



Doesn't the water circulate even when the fan is not running? I thought the pump runs at all times? I'm pretty sure my cooling system is going to be doing SOMETHING but I'm not sure exactly what. I'm also not sure what exactly to look at in the manual, if anything.

 

[schumy]

from what i remember when the mechanic flushed my car's coolant, he waited until the fan turned on to check the coolant level.

If i'm not mistaken, the fan starts running when the thermostat opens (at least on cars)

 

[CanadianFZ6]

I would be nervous about the water pump... Would it be damaged running it without rad fluid to protect it? Maybe it could handle the 30 secs or so of no lubrication, but what would happen when there is no fluid to cushion it and or slow it down?... Kinda' like a prop coming out of the water?

 

[dako81]

from what i remember when the mechanic flushed my car's coolant, he waited until the fan turned on to check the coolant level.

If i'm not mistaken, the fan starts running when the thermostat opens (at least on cars)

The fan starts running when the radiator isn't cooling enough with just whatever airflow is going over it at that time. So when you're sitting there at a stop and your temp is rising and there is no flow over the radiator to cool it down your fan comes on. When you're cruising down the road and plenty of air is flowing through the radiator, the fan doesn't come on because youre already moving enough air over the radiator.

The thermostat opens to let coolant flow through the radiator when the coolant in the engine reaches operating temp.

If he opened the radiator cap when the fan came on, I am sure coolant would have sprayed everywhere. The system builds up pressure when it gets hot.

To the O.P., I wouldn't run it more than a minute or so just to be safe.

 

[Denver_FZ6]

No way! You're risking water pump seal damage and possibly overheating the head for what? To listen to new pipes for 30 seconds. Do the job right.

 

[CHEMIKER]

While great input, none of this sounds definitive. I AM NOT an expert in cooling systems and am not giving anything definitive either. But after reading the responses here's what I would do if it were my bike. I'd like to say that I would have the patience to wait but that's not me.

I would convince myself that the bike will not overheat in a minute of operation. I would also convince myself that coolant is probalby not used to lubricate the water pump. Water is not lubricious and the ethylene glycol is but just a little bit. My guess is that it's lubricated by oil and the lubricated parts are isolated from the coolant. That is not based on fact, just what I would guess and tell myself. I might even look that up, but I might be too impatient for even that.

I would then tie rags loosly around any of the open hoses to catch any coolant that may spray out. Then I would turn it on and check out my killer new pipes :rockon::rockon::rockon:

 

[christod1]

No way! You're risking water pump seal damage and possibly overheating the head for what? To listen to new pipes for 30 seconds. Do the job right.

I totally agree...

 

[CanadianFZ6]

While great input, none of this sounds definitive. I AM NOT an expert in cooling systems and am not giving anything definitive either. But after reading the responses here's what I would do if it were my bike. I'd like to say that I would have the patience to wait but that's not me.

I would convince myself that the bike will not overheat in a minute of operation. I would also convince myself that coolant is probalby not used to lubricate the water pump. Water is not lubricious and the ethylene glycol is but just a little bit. My guess is that it's lubricated by oil and the lubricated parts are isolated from the coolant. That is not based on fact, just what I would guess and tell myself. I might even look that up, but I might be too impatient for even that.

I would then tie rags loosly around any of the open hoses to catch any coolant that may spray out. Then I would turn it on and check out my killer new pipes :rockon::rockon::rockon:

You guessed wrong... The coolant does lube the pump, not engine oil.... Other than freezing, that's why you can't use just water in the rad system.... Have you not noticed coolant has a slippery slimy feel to it?

 

[CHEMIKER]

You guessed wrong... The coolant does lube the pump, not engine oil.... Other than freezing, that's why you can't use just water in the rad system.... Have you not noticed coolant has a slippery slimy feel to it?

Yes I have:

"Water is not lubricious and the ethylene glycol is but just a little bit". It is lubricious but the viscosity is low so I wouldn't have imagined that it could be used as a lubricant.

But if the coolant is what is used to lube the pump then that's the end of the story, I wouldn't risk it.

 

[wolfc70]

I would be nervous about the water pump... Would it be damaged running it without rad fluid to protect it? Maybe it could handle the 30 secs or so of no lubrication, but what would happen when there is no fluid to cushion it and or slow it down?... Kinda' like a prop coming out of the water?

I doubt the water pump would be damaged by running it a short time. The pump is engine driven, and I would not worry about excess speed causing cavitation unless cooling system is partially filled. When I was changing the radiator on my Nissan, I backed the car in and out of the garage about six times with no coolant, water pump never failed in 170,000 miles.

The only thing I would worry about is excessive heat, gasoline burns at ~1700 to 1800 F, and can heat up aluminum (a excellent heat sink) very quickly. Air cooled bikes manage just fine, granted they have fins to dissapate the heat. I can hold my fingers on the head of my C70 for a minute at idle, before the fins become hot. A quick start up and shut down should not cause any long term dammage.

 

[DefyInertia]

Other than freezing, that's why you can't use just water in the rad system....

So the few cap-fulls of water-wetter that I put in my FZ6 cooling system along with the distilled water (2L total?) provide all the lubrication needed? I know a lot of people that run water only at the track but that does not mean the long-term effects are not there. I knew the "coolant" lubed the pump but had never heard that different liquids had an appreciable impact on the pump's lubrication....as was under the impression the pump's needs were not that great.

The pump is engine driven, and I would not worry about excess speed causing cavitation unless cooling system is partially filled.

Can you or someone else expand on this???? I thought being partially filled would be a plus.

One additional piece of information, there is most likely some coolant left in the system as it has not been properly/fulled drained since the rad has been removed. I'm sure if I removed the bleeder that more water/wetter would come out....I could do this very easily.

 

[wrightme43]

You can run a engine with out coolant.
You can run a engine with out water.

Dont load the engine and ride it around, but running it for a bit is not a big deal.

The oil is a wonderful coolant all by itself.
Waterpumps dont need coolant. They have sealed bearings that are permanently lubricated.

If you are just really freaked out by it, take it outside, run a garden hose into the radiator lower hose and run water in it. It wont care.

 

[yamaha scooter]

i say start it up and pin the throttle, its not like your going to die or anything. that way youll get a good ear full of those new pipes. Listen good, cause that memory will need to hold you over for the engine repair time.

doesnt that sound rediculious?? so does your question, do it right man.

 

[FZ1inNH]

Hook up the garden hose to the inlet and start it on full, then when water starts coming out, run the bike for a few minutes. After shutting it off, let the hose still run for a few minutes to be sure the bike is cooled.

 

[CanadianFZ6]

So the few cap-fulls of water-wetter that I put in my FZ6 cooling system along with the distilled water (2L total?) provide all the lubrication needed? I know a lot of people that run water only at the track but that does not mean the long-term effects are not there. I knew the "coolant" lubed the pump but had never heard that different liquids had an appreciable impact on the pump's lubrication....as was under the impression the pump's needs were not that great.

You may very well be right... I Googled it and seems that the consensus is split on the subject... Some say yes the water pump needs coolant to be lubed, but it can survive periods on just water. Others say, no coolant is not needed if only to be used as a water pump lubricant.