(Resolved) Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Ha Ha, It has been raining for the last month, there is so much crap on the lanes.
It's dirty pretty much 99.9% of the time.

So an up date:
I have taken the disk of and used a piece of glass to see if the disc is true. There appears to be no warping. I do not have a micro meter or calipers so the glass was the best I could do.
The guide that the caliper runs down has no abnormal wear on it. The only thing of note is that there is about 3mm gap. The bracket doesn't sit flush with the swing arm.
Is that normal? The bolts that hold the the caliper are also true.

I recall that when I did the swing arm pivot bearings the swing arm was a total B@@ch to -re-align. Could I have twisted the swing arm? No hammers were used for the alignment just a lot of swearing and tears.

I have purchased a caliper bracket from Steve Allen and it should be here in about 10 days. I will clean up the back end and do a re-install and see whats what.

Thanks for all of the very useful input guys.

Nelly

I just saw that in one of the photos it had the pads in it. The pads don't look worn out. Is that correct? Or are they worn like wedges?

The point being, you need to know what caused this so it doesn't repeat itself. Do you know why this happened yet? Can you confirm wear makes (points of contact) to confirm or deny the bracket was properly engaged in that slide in the swing arm? Look close. There must be something to be seen once cleaned up.

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

I just saw that in one of the photos it had the pads in it. The pads don't look worn out. Is that correct? Or are they worn like wedges?

The point being, you need to know what caused this so it doesn't repeat itself. Do you know why this happened yet? Can you confirm wear makes (points of contact) to confirm or deny the bracket was properly engaged in that slide in the swing arm? Look close. There must be something to be seen once cleaned up.

The pads are worn evenly, the only abnormal wear is on inside of the rear brake hanger. And the inside brake pad.
I still haven't got a clue how it happened. But I am leaning to wards miss aliening the hanger on the guide and torquing up the back end which may have bent the hanger.

Nelly

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

So did you get this fixed? When all back together does the disc align properly? Was the old hanger even bent?

Just curious if all is well now. . .

 

[Nelly]

Still waiting for new hanger to arrive. So no updates.
Nelly

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Hi Guys,
The hanger arrived yesterday, big thanks to Steve Allen.
I installed the hanger and unfortunately it did not resolve the problem.
The pictures clearly show the difference of gap from the disc.
On rotating the wheel there is definitely a pinch point that was absent with the worn hanger. I have to put my money on a warped disc being the cause of the problem?
However the angle that the hanger sits next to the disc appears to be way out. By this it looks like the hanger is a few degrees tilted to wards the wheel.
I did check the disc by laying it on a sheet of glass and it looked true as there were no obvious gaps between the edges. On rotating the wheel I can see a definite warping which I didn't see previously.

I stripped down the rear wheel and cleaned and inspected all of the components and checked for signs of abnormal wear.
The roller bearings are good, no signs of wear. cleaned and lubed.
The inner sleeve of the wheel was a little dry so cleaned and lubed.
Cush drive also intact, no signs of slippage in housing. Cleaned and replaced.
The hanger guide was also cleaned again with kerosene to remove any debris.
Cleaned and re-torqued the pad slide on the caliper. Caliper floats freely.
Piston moves freely in caliper, no pitting or wear.

Can one of you guys post a picture of the clearance between the disc and the top of the hanger, just so I can see what is normal. The picture in the Haynes manual is not very clear.View attachment 43471 View attachment 43472
I will try and post a video of the rear wheel turning so you guys can get a real time look of what I'm talking about.
Thanks for all the help and input.
Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Here's pic's of my bike with the caliper on. There is about .052" between the disc and the aluminum mount.

If you need pic's with the caliper off, lemme know, it'll take a little bit.

Also, if you need a genuine Yamaha PDF manual, PM with your regular e-mail address and I'll send it to you.. Please mention the year bike as well.

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Here's pic's of my bike with the caliper on. There is about .052" between the disc and the aluminum mount.

If you need pic's with the caliper off, lemme know, it'll take a little bit.

Also, if you need a genuine Yamaha PDF manual, PM with your regular e-mail address and I'll send it to you.. Please mention the year bike as well.

Cheers Scott,
I am not able to see any daylight through the hanger and disc surface.
This is a real enigma,

The brake pedal has not been depressed after the installation and rotates much more freely. You may be able to pick up the "Rub" as I spin the wheel. The video is not great as I only have a mobile phone. Also my shaky hand makes the disc look much more out of alignment. Not sure if the quality allows decent diagnostics?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXLfa6JyzfE&feature=youtu.be
longer video with slightly steadier hand.
http://youtu.be/PjZ-ijZYfak

Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Its hard to tell anything from the video, I can't decern any warpage.

I did go out and pull the rear caliper, took some pictures and some measurements for you(all between the dic and aluminum mount);

The gap in the FRONT RIGHT, approx.050"
The gap in the LEFT SIDE, APPROX .075"

The gap at the rear hanger (smaller bolt) is approx .053"

There is (at least on my bike) a SS flat anti rattle plate which sits at the front of the brake shoes. The first picture is where it sits (its obviously not on the bike when I took the pictures). Make sure that's seated properly.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Can you take some still pictures with everything together (tightened down too) EXCEPT the brake caliper? (About the same as I did) so we can see what gaps are what... It doesn't appear nearly as bad as before but of couse you still should have a semi equal gap inbetween both pieces..

It may shed some light...


The second video doesn't seem too bad, what physical gap are at those 3 points (if you have a feeler gauge)?

I just looked again at your still pictures. Can you try checking the axle and make sure it not bent. If you loosen the axle, does the gap appear to widen inbetween the disc and the bracket? I have to assume the part of the swing arm, where the bracket slips into is
spotless clean, if not it would push the bracket over...

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Yeah the video is very dodgy, sorry about that, it's amazing until I saw the video I thought second time around I was being steady.
I will go and measure, thanks for taking the time to remove the caliper. Much clearer than the manual. BTW I have a service manual, thanks for the offer.

Just by looking at your picture The hanger sits very straight and the gap is consistent. Compared to mine, really don't need a tape measure to see it.
The anti-rattle plate is seated correctly. I will go and measure.

Neil

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Can you take some still pictures with everything together (tightened down too) EXCEPT the brake caliper? (About the same as I did) so we can see what gaps are what...

It may shed some light...



The second video doesn't seem too bad, what physical gap are at thhose 3 points (if you have a feeler gauge)?

"On it like a gin and tonic", hang 5.

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Pictures of caliper removed:

I am going to look at rear wheel spindle assembly. Judging by the gap I am missing a spacer?
I also need to go out for an hour or so. Scott thanks for giving up some of your public holiday in order to help me.
Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Well I see the problem,, that bracket is over way to far to the inside. A super large gap on the inside, none on the outside.

Let check some parts fisch and my FZ manual and see if there's any bushings...

BRB.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

There is a C-clip under the right side bearing (as you sit on the bike), both wheel bushings, for centering the axle are the same so those aren't mixed up... There are no other bushings to loose and screw things up.. If that c-clip got destroyed, when /if the original bracket may not have been installed correctly, it could have screwed something else up. 87 foot pounds is a bunch of torque, especially if something is not assembled correctly...

I'm wondering if that clip dislodged some how (shouldn't!) but that would explain why the main aluminum bracket is being pulled in too far as that is the problem...

Go to Babbits and look up the parts fisch for your bike, its under the "wheel assembly" . Something is not right on your bike in this area of the axle/bearings/spacer, something...

They have OEM pictures...

My money is on something not right in the axle area...

Arctic Cat, Honda, Kawasaki, Polaris, Suzuki, Yamaha Parts Dealer Muskegon, MI

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Nelly,

Just a quick, "make sure" question.

Is it possible you put the right side (or both sides) spacer bushing in backwards?

The skinnier end should go in first (to the seal) and the larger flatter part of the bushing outwards up against the swingarm..

If installed backwards, it'd squash the seal down and pull that brake bracket in causing exactly what you have...

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Nelly,

Just a quick, "make sure" question.

Is it possible you put the right side (or both sides) spacer bushing in backwards?

The skinnier end should go in first (to the seal) and the larger flatter part of the bushing outwards up against the swingarm..

If installed backwards, it'd squash the seal down and pull that brake bracket in causing exactly what you have...

No both spacers are in the right way, its pretty hard to get one in back wards. After checking the microfiche I am not missing any parts.
I am wondering if I may have over torqued it? I use a torque wrench that is 3 years old. I always store it un-torqued.
The answer must be staring me in the face but I can't see it?
I'm going to remove the wheel again and recheck every thing.
Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

I agree, it seems that aluminum brake bracket is just setting towards the middle of the bike just too far (with the gaps the way they are). If the swingarm isn't pushing it in, the axle end is too far end...

Does the gap even out when you loosen the axle? Is anything moving out alot when you do looen the axle?

I'm assuming nothing major was done in that area? (I know you cleaned the swingarm bushings(which wouldn't have anything to do with it)

I don't think the bracket is any different between the years but it might be worth your while to check your year part # against the part # of the replacement part, perhaps they changed/altered it...

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

When I undo the locking nut the gap opens slightly and the caliper floats better. But the tolerance to the disk surface still doe's not look like your picture.
I haven't installed the new hanger as I didn't want it to get worn by the alignment issue.
It is the same part as my own so no issue there. Basically I tried the new one to rule out the original being bent.

Neil

I will take some pictures of the rear wheel removal

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

When I undo the locking nut the gap opens slightly and the caliper floats better. But the tolerance to the disk surface still doe's not look like your picture.
I haven't installed the new hanger as I didn't want it to get worn by the alignment issue.
It is the same part as my own so no issue there. Basically I tried the new one to rule out the original being bent.

Neil

I will take some pictures of the rear wheel removal

So those pictures you last posted are of the old bracket?

If they are, try putting the new one on and slowly tightening down the axle keeping an eye on the gap. If it gets too close to the outside, stop

Let me see if I can get a measurement of the wheel itself and how far out the spacer sits on mine..

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

one observation is; you should be able to mock this on the ground with the wheel removed. So slide everything together and shove the axle in with the hanger. While pressing firmly together you will get the same results.

I think Scott has nailed it though; That "C" clip and and the Right side bearing locate the wheels position.If either is NOT where they belong the whole wheel is allowed to move left and right.

So, I think you need a good visual on that C clip and at this point, I'd pull it and remove the bearing. I know you say the bearing is smooth but the problem manifests as if that bearing has spun and damaged WORN ITSELF INWARDS through the area where its supposed to be.

here are the drawings and in the 3rd pic is the rear hub spacers from the 08 in the foreground.