Kaisersoze
Junior Member
Enjoy the wilderness in NY State as long as you can because I know before long there will be Natural Gas wells all over the place. 
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My condolences to all NY riders...Heard ban on Fracking was lifted.
- Thread starter Kaisersoze
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DefyInertia
Former '04 FZ6 Rider
More info please
Full Throttle
Member
Enjoy the wilderness in NY State as long as you can because I know before long there will be Natural Gas wells all over the place.
Fantastic (Sarcasm)!
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Ok, WTH is fracking?..... 
novaks47
Yeah!
This article explains it somewhat : Fracking for natural gas may soon be allowed in New York - Jul. 1, 2011
They just pump water into the ground, and it pushes out the natural gas. Seems inefficient to me, but it seems to work. Better than full blown drilling I suppose, then again, I don't care either way, as in which method they use.
They just pump water into the ground, and it pushes out the natural gas. Seems inefficient to me, but it seems to work. Better than full blown drilling I suppose, then again, I don't care either way, as in which method they use.
Kaisersoze
Junior Member
Its not just water actually, they pump 500+ chemicals (several of which are known carcinogens) into the ground to create a ridiculous amount of pressure which cracks the ground allowing natural gas to "escape". However it pretty much goes wherever it likes and the gas wells literally try to catch the gas as it surges out the ground.
The chemicals from the process and the natural gas itself often escape into natural water systems, including drinking wells.
Here is one of several videos on people's tap water becoming flammable due to contamination from surrounding fracking sites.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A]CAN YOU DO THIS WITH YOUR TAP WATER? - YouTube[/ame]
The chemicals from the process and the natural gas itself often escape into natural water systems, including drinking wells.
Here is one of several videos on people's tap water becoming flammable due to contamination from surrounding fracking sites.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A]CAN YOU DO THIS WITH YOUR TAP WATER? - YouTube[/ame]
QwickFliCk
Manly Man Member
wow that nuts i cant believe this is the first time i'm hearing about this:spank:
AlexL
Shiny Side Up
:thumbdown:
callmegandhi
IM4TH
Holy crap! I thought firewater was cinnamon flavored booze!
champion221elite
Super Member
With fracking (hydraulic fracturing), the gas company drills a conventional well bore and then injects a mixture of water and chemicals into the bedrock under high pressure to fracture the rock and release the gas.
There is a gas boom going in Northern Michigan right now and my parents property just had a well installed this Summer. Very minimal impact on the environment or local scenery.
The video that shows flaming tap water is real, and can happen if wells are improperly installed, or the bedrock is more porous than anticipated. The reality is most wells will operate without incident for the entire lifespan of the gas reservoir. I do not have any official stats, but the percentage of faulty wells compared to fully contained, functional wells is likely under 1%.
I'll be the first to admit that low impact is still worse than zero impact, and we still have a long way to go. Sadly though, we are a society based on fossil fuels and we are still without a viable, cost effective alternative for transportation, power generation and heating. Until that day comes, natural gas is a clean burning, domestically produced and fairly inexpensive alternative to petroleum fuels.
This is one small step for our country becoming more energy independent.
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Have2BeFree
It's My Bike!
Sigh. I work for a company that is associated with sand & gravel mining so I am not totally opposed to certain things (let's face it - we need to have our roads paved and foundations built) but this one (fracking) I am. Really, how much natural gas are we going to find? Enough to reduce our dependency on foreign oil? HA! Is it worth the damage to the environment? NO! We have some beautiful areas here and I don't want to see them ruined.
What happened to alternative energy? For a while wind turbines were being used and wind farms were being established but that too had much resistance and I guess the politicians weren't making enough money from wind power.
More people are moving out of NY than into it for good reason.
What happened to alternative energy? For a while wind turbines were being used and wind farms were being established but that too had much resistance and I guess the politicians weren't making enough money from wind power.
More people are moving out of NY than into it for good reason.
champion221elite
Super Member
I have a buddy who was supposed to take a job in Wyoming 2 years ago as a part in a large scale wind turbine project. The company was going to install several hundred turbines but the project was scrapped because it wasn't "green" enough. I forget the projected megawatts produced, but the project was cancelled because different "green" groups could not come to an understanding.
There was a local group of "tree huggers" who stated the wind turbines would disturb the nesting and mating habits of the Prairie Sage Grouse. One would think a stationary wind turbine would have zero effect on a Grouse, but now the company who is backing the turbine project must commission a multi-year study into the mating habits of the Prairie Sage Grouse. It seems that sometimes even "green" isn't "green enough" in the eyes of some folks.
charlie12
Junior Member
Southern Michigan as well -- there are now two new wells within 500m of my parent's house.
As long as the gas company and regulators are being responsible there is next to no environmental impact. In every case I've seen so far, the only loss is a couple hundred square meters of farmland. They only drill wells where landowners agree to them. It's not like they're destroying entire river systems like hydro dams do, and there are thousands of meters of solid rock separating the natural gas layers from the water table.
I'm always happy to see a move towards energy independence -- would you prefer to pay farmers in New York for your oil or buy it from Saudi Arabia and Iraq?
Lastly, call me a cynic, but I'm hesitant to believe any video put out by either a gas company or a lobby group.
Kaisersoze
Junior Member
While I always appreciate the feedback, I am concerned about where you getting your statistics from? You state yourself, " I do not have any official stats, but the percentage of faulty wells compared to fully contained, functional wells is likely under 1%." That statement does not make logical sense. Its akin to me saying I haven't watched the news today, nor am I a meteorologist or have any viable facts, but I'm guessing a 3% of a hurricane hitting the east coast today. I am certainly not trying to flame your statement, so please no :ban:, but when we are dealing with possible irreparable damage to our environment and the potential to destroy drinking water for millions of Americans, because that area feeds NY city, I would hope that we base our decisions on hard and empirical data. Your statement sounds like the National Realtors Association claiming that every home bought creates 2 jobs, just do the math on that one.
I'm not going to get too preachy, 
, but science (not guesstimation) is what made us great as a nation and has brought us every single achievement that keeps us #1.
The thing many do not realize here in upstate ny is that they came through about 10-20 years ago and put in a bunch of wells. They do not impact the views of the country side. They are not very big at all and many have never been used. Many were put on farm land. Guess what those farms still have cattle and other animals. I don't think they are importing water for them to drink..... I agree regulations have to be in affect...... Also My house is heated by natural gas...... I would say you have a better chance of your neighbor's septic over flowing and messing up your water....
While I always appreciate the feedback, I am concerned about where you getting your statistics from? You state yourself, " I do not have any official stats, but the percentage of faulty wells compared to fully contained, functional wells is likely under 1%." That statement does not make logical sense. Its akin to me saying I haven't watched the news today, nor am I a meteorologist or have any viable facts, but I'm guessing a 3% of a hurricane hitting the east coast today. I am certainly not trying to flame your statement, so please no :ban:, but when we are dealing with possible irreparable damage to our environment and the potential to destroy drinking water for millions of Americans, because that area feeds NY city, I would hope that we base our decisions on hard and empirical data. Your statement sounds like the National Realtors Association claiming that every home bought creates 2 jobs, just do the math on that one.
hate to tell you but greed built America.... our forefathers have been killing nature since the beginning of time.... Think about it back in the 60's a auto shop dumped used engine oil down a drain that emptied into the river.....
AlexL
Shiny Side Up
Sheesh, famous last words...
dxh24
Ambitious But Rubbish
Not tremendously concerned TBH... we already have natural gas wells all over the place, this is just a different method... I myself have a natural gas well on the property. get like 50 bucks a month and free gas for as long as the well is there (yes reg gas like you put in your car or gas for your furnace in the house, both really)...
The blue "tanks" you see on farmland are natural gas wells, and i don't see people complaining about them. I have one within view of my house on my land and it's "part" of the property now, wouldn't be the same without it, add to that you get to benefit from it...
The blue "tanks" you see on farmland are natural gas wells, and i don't see people complaining about them. I have one within view of my house on my land and it's "part" of the property now, wouldn't be the same without it, add to that you get to benefit from it...
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Gasland: A film by Josh Fox
If you get the chance watch this documentary, it may "uncover" some awful stuff associated with this method of natural gas harvesting. I know some of it is melodramatic and embellished, but I personally do not like the impact.
"go cheap, go gas, go boom"...
"flame suit on"
If you get the chance watch this documentary, it may "uncover" some awful stuff associated with this method of natural gas harvesting. I know some of it is melodramatic and embellished, but I personally do not like the impact.
"go cheap, go gas, go boom"...
"flame suit on"
charlie12
Junior Member
Well both parties have strong motivation to behave responsibly. There have been some notable lapses recently (bp), but in the vast majority of situations the system works. People aren't perfect (particularly those in power), but you have to go through life with some small amount of trust in others, even cagers...
Changing the subject a bit, for anyone who is strongly opposed to fracking, what alternatives would you prefer? This is one thing that has always confused me... people seem to be strongly against lots of power options, but never offer better solutions.
Coal and natural gas are certainly not ideal, but 'renewable' sources often have a much greater negative impact on the local surface environment, or they aren't consistent enough to rely on. Nuclear power seems clean and safe by comparison, but everyone seems to be terrified of it right now. Biodiesel has been a complete flop, and when it comes to regular fossil fuels, it seems like people would truly prefer to buy them from foreign (and often hostile) countries. It would be great if we all lived in Iceland and could enjoy geothermal power, but....
Thoughts?
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