Hard to start - revisited

[Motogiro]

It sounds like the standing voltage on the LiPo is going to be higher than the standard. If those batteries want a higher charging voltage there may be some incompatibility with our charging systems. I would like to see what your actual cranking voltage is looking like.

There is the possibility the optimal charging voltage for the LiPo is 15 plus volts and the standard bike is a few volts.

I've just done a little research and it seems there are warnings about proper charging of these type batteries and they specifically say you need a charger for that type battery. Does this negate our bike charging systems from having optimal compatibility?

So let's just try to look at cranking voltage. If there is below 8-9 volts there may be a problem and that might be the primary intermittent hard starting issue. Waiting to hear what Shorai says!

 

[Erci]

It sounds like the standing voltage on the LiPo is going to be higher than the standard. If those batteries want a higher charging voltage there may be some incompatibility with our charging systems. I would like to see what your actual cranking voltage is looking like.

There is the possibility the optimal charging voltage for the LiPo is 15 plus volts and the standard bike is a few volts.

I've just done a little research and it seems there are warnings about proper charging of these type batteries and they specifically say you need a charger for that type battery. Does this negate our bike charging systems from having optimal compatibility?

So let's just try to look at cranking voltage. If there is below 8-9 volts there may be a problem and that might be the primary intermittent hard starting issue. Waiting to hear what Shorai says!

I did ask them about charging (and read up on it when I just got the batt). Maximum charging voltage they recommend is 14.4.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Somewhat related, on a Yamaha Outboard engine forum I frequest often, the different style batteries were discussed.

Obviously a different animal, however Most Yamaha OB's HAVE to use standard marine batteries. Lithium, etc, for 95% of the engines was NOT recommended. Re-charging issues and potential damage to the electrical system as I re-call.. The systems are very similar to our bikes.

This is from a Master Tech with approx 30 years experiance (EXTREMLY KNOWLEDGABLE). Been to most schools, a MT for the last 7 years or so (a Master tech is the HIGHEST rating you can get in the Yamaha Marine mechanic world)

 

[PFD023]

Very similar symptoms to a friend's cbr600rr......ended up being the power commander.....took it off and the bike now runs great.

 

[Erci]

Very similar symptoms to a friend's cbr600rr......ended up being the power commander.....took it off and the bike now runs great.

Yeah, I've had others ask me if I had PC on mine when I described the issue. I ain't got one though.

 

[FinalImpact]

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


Crowd anxiously awaits load test voltages......

PS Not many folks have a DMM with a Min/Max function. Point most hand held meters will not show the actual voltage the moment it hits critical mass. i.e. taking the big dip. But as you pointed out, pulling the fuel pump power and cranking for say 10 seconds should show you what you need to know.

Well unless the curve on the batteries output improves over time and the normal start time is to short for it to bounce back??? My friend has gone through two of these which don't deliver despite $200 price tag and weight savings. Went back to Lead Acid....

R continues to ramble: My 6 has a battery of 6.4 years of age and drops under 9 volts when cranking. Starts fine. Your FZ has much more going on tho so it may not tolerate that too well. Off hand tho, because it dies from opening the throttle I still think its something else.

 

[Erci]

Off hand tho, because it dies from opening the throttle I still think its something else.

When did I say it died from opening the throttle? (sorry.. entirely possible I did, but that is not the case!). It died once after putting it in gear and one other time just after starting, but with no throttle.

More times than not, the issue is it just does not want to start. Did not ride it today, but last 2 starts were perfect. Hoping one of the connectors was fouled up and cleaning all of them did the trick.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ an assumption that if one places the bike in gear they intend to leave! :spank::spank:

 

[Erci]

OK.. just got off the phone with Shorai tech. Anything below 10 under load is too low. I'll try to test it this weekend (PITA... gotta go through all that plastic again to lift the tank up).

 

[FinalImpact]

OK.. just got off the phone with Shorai tech. Anything below 10 under load is too low. I'll try to test it this weekend (PITA... gotta go through all that plastic again to lift the tank up).

Not sure if this is an option but:

In the middle pic are the two wires which go straight to the battery on the little FZ (red and black). Yours is a little different but if long probes reach, perhaps this can be done there too? All i had to do was remove the seat.

PS - because there is little to no output from the RR, the voltage should reflect that of the battery during cranking.

Take a look!

 

[Erci]

Load test performed: yup.. the battery is going. Dropped to 9.6 (and as mentioned above, Shorai said 10 is the min). So.. I'll be getting a replacement Shorai (the larger, correct one) for 50% off. Hopefully that'll be the end of start-up issues.

 

[Erci]

Not sure if this is an option but:

In the middle pic are the two wires which go straight to the battery on the little FZ (red and black). Yours is a little different but if long probes reach, perhaps this can be done there too? All i had to do was remove the seat.

PS - because there is little to no output from the RR, the voltage should reflect that of the battery during cranking.

Take a look!

Sorry.. didn't see this till just now.
No need for that on FZ1. Battery is super easy to get to. Just pop the seat (turn of the key) and there it is. The hard part is disconnecting the fuel pump. Not hard.. just time-intensive. Lots of screws / plastic to pull off before the tank can be tilted back.

 

[Erci]

Update: still running on same (undersized) battery, but since cleaning the connectors it's been starting as well as it ever has. Been using heated gear past few days too.. so far so good.
Going to keep using the battery until the next hard start.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Update: still running on same (undersized) battery, but since cleaning the connectors it's been starting as well as it ever has. Been using heated gear past few days too.. so far so good.
Going to keep using the battery until the next hard start.

Was there obvious corrosion or did you just shine up the terminals, wire ends real good?

 

[Erci]

Was there obvious corrosion or did you just shine it up the terminals, wire ends real good?

No obvious corrosion. And I didn't even use any elbow grease. I literally disconnected each one; sprayed electrical cleaner into it; let it dry and reassembled.

I have a feeling it may have been enough to just disconnect and immediately reconnect, if this really was a connector issue.