Fuel pump kicking off without pressure

[f6Quad]

Hello everybody.
I have a 2006 fz6 that is having some running issues. Usually it is hard starting but it will run for a second or so then die, but sometimes i can hop on and ride it for a bit before it will die, and sometimes it will not start at all. I do not have access to a dashboard so I cannot run diagnostics on it.

Anyway, I unplugged the fuel line from the rail and put it in a container and turned on the key, it shoots fuel for a second like it should when priming the system but shuts off even though it hasnt built pressure. I can hear the relay click when the pump shuts off so i doubt its a pump problem itself. If i just stand there with the key on it will not kick back on again but if i turn the key off and back on it will do the same thing.

Is there a safety that will kick the pump off if no pressure is being built (Like a broken hose or out of fuel)? Or could this be the problem with my bike? and if so what is causing it?

Thank you in advance.. Im not familiar at all with these bikes and fuel injection is not my specialty.

 

[FinalImpact]

That's normal for it to time out and shutoff. Its waiting for input from the CPS. If the engine is not rotating it turns off until it detects rotation.
So, yes; It is a safety switch AND a battery saver.
IIRC this is an ongoing issue for this application, true?

Many things could cause the no start issue. Vacuum leaks, IACV leaks, fuel quality, ignition system condition, etc.

Shoot us some pictures of the air cleaner box and all the plumbing as well as electrical connections...

 

[f6Quad]

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Does it ALWAYS CRANK/ SPIN OVER with the starter?

Just NOT FIRE?


Jumping ahead some, pick up a new, spark plug.

When the bike will spin over and NOT START, plug in your new plug into the #4 wire (RS as you sit on the bike), GROUND IT to metal, spin over and look for spark..
Please post if you have spark...


Question, as you have no dash, I gather the wiring harness, specifically up front has been altered??? Pic's of any alterations in that area would help too...

 

[f6Quad]

Its too dark to take picture but the only mod I can see up there is a black wire is cut that is going to one of the plugs going to the dash. i tried plugging a dash in from an 05 and it wouldn't show anything but the clock so i guess my bike is too far gone..

When cranking the starter is always engaged to the flywheel if thats what you meant.

When I plugged in a spark plug it would take a revolution or two for it to start sparking, but once it started sparking it looked healthy and steady. Im not sure if it being delayed is a clue.. Im sure the battery isnt fully charged due to the lack of running and excess of cranking, but its on the charger now.

 

[FinalImpact]

I've observed the "delayed spark" on other FZ6's that didn't start. It **appears to be" normal. And honestly; knowing the crank sensor needs a solid input before it turns the fuel pump on, it sorta makes sense that it's delayed.

Anyway - the two easy tests are Fuel and Spark to determine why it doesn't start up.

NO FUEL:
Grab a cap of some kind and dump some NEW FUEL in drip equal amounts into the TB's and crank it. Something like a 1/2 teaspoon per TB. If it fires off and dies, figure out why its not getting the fuel it needs. So that's pretty easy. Because its excessive fuel it will blubber and MISFIRE, but still likely start if it was in fact STARVED FOR FUEL.

TOO MUCH FUEL:
Now if it IS getting fuel and the ignition is at fault this action can flood out the plugs. The cure here is holding the throttle OPEN 1/2 to 3/4 and cranking it. If ignition spark is present at the right time, it may run. But if there is not spark, there is little hope of this helping.

NO SPARK/WEAK SPARK:
Grab a new plug and open the gap to say 0.045"... Do as Scott mentioned and insert it in the cap and lay it on the header. Hit the starter. It should jump the gap with a BLUE/PURPLE/WHITE ARC!! If its orange or yellow or NOT there at all, it is a good indication the voltage needed is not present. Check the kill switch for clean contacts, measure voltage on the coils. You should see something like 9 - 10 volts while cranking (red wires/Black Trace).

Hint: A blue purple arc from a 0.028" gap is good, but it doesn't mean that same plug will fire under compression which is why we opened the gap. Which still doesn't mean 100% a plug will fire but it is a good indication the energy is capable of more (a greater load so to speak).

EDIT: to clarify opening the gap is for static air test only. Think of it as a poor mans simulation. Not to be installed in vehicle.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

"When cranking the starter is always engaged to the flywheel [/B]if thats what you meant".



When cranking, I'm referring to the engine SPINNING OVER (preferably at NORMAL, starting speed).

Besides what Randy posted above, having a fully charged battery is needed and if any doubt about it, get it "load tested" for free at any auto parts store, Walmart etc just to rule that out.

 

[FinalImpact]

Has it ever ran decent enough that is scared you!!?
Most of these engines fire off in seconds, idle fine and run untill the key is turned off.

How does it idle? With a vacuum gauge you could get a basic idea of idle speed but I would suggest you grab a gauge cluster even if you only hang it for trouble shooting...

If it is idling; does the thumb screw alter the idle speed or have any controll at all?
Does it still have the stock FZ6 radiator? Coolant temperature through the IACV helps maintain idle speed so that is also something to keep in mind.

Last question; what are you using for a fuel tank and is there any rust in it?

 

[f6Quad]

The thing ran great up unti this problem started. And it seems to be spinning over fine. I have my doubts about it being the battery because it first died at speed. And acts the same even on the charger. It has the stock tank. No rust that i can see but it isnt spotless either. I was trying to drain the tank to pull the pump and look at the screen but i havent gotten around to it yet.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Did you try as FinalImpact suggested earlier:

"NO FUEL:
Grab a cap of some kind and dump some NEW FUEL in drip equal amounts into the TB's and crank it. Something like a 1/2 teaspoon per TB. If it fires off and dies, figure out why its not getting the fuel it needs. So that's pretty easy. Because its excessive fuel it will blubber and MISFIRE, but still likely start if it was in fact STARVED FOR FUEL."

or with a little bit of starter fluid?

You can be getting plenty of fuel from the pump but if the injectors aren't functioning, it WON'T run.


Did you pull the spark plugs, ground them, crank and check for spark?

 

[f6Quad]

I was getting spark. It looked healthy but it was delayed for a revolution or so.

I put fuel in the TBs. It was hard to tell because it was running for a sec or two without the extra fuel but would die.
But with the extra fuel it seemed to run a bit longer and the idle was a little higher.

So to me that sounds like not enough fuel. But without the extra fuel there is quite abit of steam coming out of the exhaust and it smells like its running rich for the second that it does run.

 

[FinalImpact]

Define "running for a second or two without.....".

Are you saying it started without adding extra fuel at the TBs?

PS - cold idle these do run rich. When warm mines at 12.2:1 AFR. Id guess cold its down in the 10's and w/out a catalyst it is noticeably stinky (rich). They do this for stability so it doesn't dye when riding.

If you could answer all of the questions it would be helpful. Anyway; sounds like a fuel issue but until you test pump pressure and volume you won't know.

 

[FinalImpact]

Do a search for;
Sock, pressure, volume, fuel pressure, JJD952 pump, etc you'll find several threads on dirty and rusted tanks causing issues like this.

 

[f6Quad]

By that I meant before adding any fuel to the throttelbodies it will run for a second and shut off. Sometimes quickly like someone hit the key and sometimes slowly dropping to what id guess is less than 500rpm and holding there for another second and dying. Its been doing this since right after the problem started.

When the problem first started it wouldnt fire at all. After a few tries cranking it i hit it with some starter fluid to see if it had spark and it fired, idled for a second, and died. Its been "running" that way since.

If i hit the starter with the throttle cracked itll start revved and die. It runs for about the same amount of time as at an idle but it seems to die more abrupt (like someone hit the key)

I guess the next step is to pull the pump and check the screen?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

You above post is confirming a fuel issue (or lack of) if its running when you add fuel (you have spark and compression).

How many miles on the bike BTW?

 

[f6Quad]

I pulled the fuel pump apart to get to the screen. It had some rust and gunk on it but nothing id call clogged. I cleaned it up and put it back together and the thing runs pretty much how it did before.

And I dont have any idea how many miles are on this thing. The dash must have been missing for some time because the guy I bought it from didnt know either.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Did you have any noises from the right side of the engine, chain rattling noise??

(Randy, cam chain jump, throwing off timing?)

 

[f6Quad]

Nope, the thing sounds pretty good actually. and I havent had any backfires or pops. plus, once in a great while, the thing will fire up and run good for a few minutes. I can hop on it and ride for a minute or two and it doesnt have any major power loss or anything. but this has only happened twice.
Thats what makes me think its some kind of sensor that is acting up and giving faulty readings.

 

[FinalImpact]

I pulled the fuel pump apart to get to the screen. It had some rust and gunk on it but nothing id call clogged. I cleaned it up and put it back together and the thing runs pretty much how it did before.

And I dont have any idea how many miles are on this thing. The dash must have been missing for some time because the guy I bought it from didnt know either.

A common fault found here is debris in the fuel gets stuck in the pressure regulator and with an internal leak (system not at 36 psi) there is not enoungh injector duty cycle (open and squirting fuel), it cant run. Verify the pump is in fact at 36psi!
In short, connect a pressure gauge to the pumps outlet as cleaning the filter wont fix this problem.

 

[f6Quad]

I have 45 psi coming out of the pump.