FJ-09; A most certain replacement for my FZ6

[Dry Martini]

Define proof. Corporate memos? No, just logic. The Big 4 and BMW, MV, and Duc had a meeting at one of the bike shows about 3 or 4 years ago. This was in response to the EU Bureaucrats talking (circulating memos) about restricting HP. Remember when a bunch of 74 (76?) HP Fz-6's were sold in France, I think. One of the major EU nations passed a law limiting motorcycles to 75 HP.
https://rideapart.com/articles/the-facts-behind-europes-pending-100-hp-motorcycle-limit
European Commission Could Be Considering 100HP Limit for Motorcycles

That was in 2010. The Bureaucrats wanted to cut HP in an attempt to reduce the carnage among young males on motorcycles. For males between 18 and 25, motorcycles are the #1 killer.
So the various manufactures agreed to restrict the HP wars before the government forced them to. BMW broke that gentleman's agreement with the 1000r (or S, I really don't pay much attention to euro trash).
BMW had the bike in development the whole time they were talking about voluntary limits. So the HP wars are back. That means the Bureaucrats will dust off their proposed regulations.
.

So what you are saying is, the EU's much vaunted tiered licensing is not working?

Actually I was thinking you were talking about the US gov's crack down on high HP bikes. They don't care about the small number of people killed on any size motorcycle.


Actually there was a gentlemens agreement back in the early 90s to limit bikes to a top speed of 155. That agreement was broken by all the major players. Now another agreement has been a sham. I bet the EU cronies will be influenced by big money and we won't see anything come of this.


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[Dry Martini]

My SV is a lot of fun with a wide power band. It handles very well! I never try to wheelie but the times I've slipped the clutch ever so slightly by accident the front is up and away. It doesn't intimidate me, it makes me laugh!



If I ever did get a cruiser I'd probably go with the new Indian Scout. They're probably the only company that's bringing cruiser motors to today's technology. They shortened the stroke and doubled up the valves to stretch the power band and added water cooling for cooling the added performance.



There have been many great V-twins like the (Widow Maker) TL1000 and the RC51 from Honda. There are a few non Italian V-Twins that are great, fun bikes.

I would not buy anything with the name Indian on it. You have no guarantee the company will be around in 5 years.

Yes the TL was nice and the RC was successful for a while in racing, so I don't that I would call either bike, "great".


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[The_Paragon]

I would not buy anything with the name Indian on it. You have no guarantee the company will be around in 5 years.

Since the Indian Name was acquired by Polaris, I give Indian the best shot as its ever had to make it. They're good bike, designed by the experienced engineers at Polaris (one being a friend of mine). With the financial backing of a large scale company like Polaris, I think they'll be successful. And I think there's more to come under the Indian name!!

If I was in the cruiser Market, I would already have my down payment put on an Indian Scout. Great looking cruiser, with what sounds like an awesome engine!

 

[Dry Martini]

Since the Indian Name was acquired by Polaris, I give Indian the best shot as its ever had to make it. They're good bike, designed by the experienced engineers at Polaris (one being a friend of mine). With the financial backing of a large scale company like Polaris, I think they'll be successful. And I think there's more to come under the Indian name!!



If I was in the cruiser Market, I would already have my down payment put on an Indian Scout. Great looking cruiser, with what sounds like an awesome engine!

I know Polaris is successful, but how committed are they to Indian and cutting into Victory sales?

I guess I have seen the Indian name resurrected so much, I just don't care anymore.


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[The_Paragon]

I know Polaris is successful, but how committed are they to Indian and cutting into Victory sales?

I guess I have seen the Indian name resurrected so much, I just don't care anymore.


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Agreed, there have been alot of Indian resurrections. Most of them were doomed from the beginning, simply because retail prices were way too high..(2006-2011) or because the name was owned by AMC (1960's) or they were just re-badged Royal Enfields, haha.

Finally a company owns it that can financially support it. You can see that theres Indian dealerships popping up quite a few places and there are plenty of Cheif's out there on the road.

Yes, It may seem like the Indain name may take sales away from victory, but so what? Its still a sale by Polaris. The real sucess is luring in Harley customers and taking some of those sales.

I think its finally a good time for a good Indian resurrection. The baby boomers polulation are the real Harley lovers. And they're not getting any younger (no offence to any boomer on this forum). Eventually they'll be out of the motorcycle market. Other people like like us millennials are getting to a more financially sound point in our lives. On top of that alot of us will outgrow that "sport bike" phaze. If they keep on producing stuff like the Scout, a cruiser with a modernized v-twin. I think Indian will reel in a good share of that market.

but hey, Thats just my rambling thoughs!

 

[FIZZER6]

Agreed, there have been alot of Indian resurrections. Most of them were doomed from the beginning, simply because retail prices were way too high..(2006-2011) or because the name was owned by AMC (1960's) or they were just re-badged Royal Enfields, haha.

Finally a company owns it that can financially support it. You can see that theres Indian dealerships popping up quite a few places and there are plenty of Cheif's out there on the road.

Yes, It may seem like the Indain name may take sales away from victory, but so what? Its still a sale by Polaris. The real sucess is luring in Harley customers and taking some of those sales.

I think its finally a good time for a good Indian resurrection. The baby boomers polulation are the real Harley lovers. And they're not getting any younger (no offence to any boomer on this forum). Eventually they'll be out of the motorcycle market. Other people like like us millennials are getting to a more financially sound point in our lives. On top of that alot of us will outgrow that "sport bike" phaze. If they keep on producing stuff like the Scout, a cruiser with a modernized v-twin. I think Indian will reel in a good share of that market.

but hey, Thats just my rambling thoughs!

My Uncle was at the Annual Sturgis bike rally this year. He said the Indian vendor there had HUNDREDS of Harley owners trade in their bikes on new Indians.

Polaris is the reason the American cruiser market is still competitive with imports. I love my Victory. For it's purpose it is an amazing machine that can go 200,000 miles easily.

 

[FinalImpact]

My SV is a lot of fun with a wide power band. It handles very well! I never try to wheelie but the times I've slipped the clutch ever so slightly by accident the front is up and away. It doesn't intimidate me, it makes me laugh!

If I ever did get a cruiser I'd probably go with the new Indian Scout. They're probably the only company that's bringing cruiser motors to today's technology. They shortened the stroke and doubled up the valves to stretch the power band and added water cooling for cooling the added performance.

There have been many great V-twins like the (Widow Maker) TL1000 and the RC51 from Honda. There are a few non Italian V-Twins that are great, fun bikes.

[MENTION=2579]Motogiro[/MENTION]
On that note, cue this is Netflix - The Worlds Fastest Indian, Pretty good movie about an old guy from down under taking a 1929 Indian to Bonneville and setting a world record.

[MENTION=16666]Marthy[/MENTION]
I haven't had a chance to record everything yet but I suspect the "Happy Spot" where the little fizzer suddenly wakes up (8k and up) is also in part to going "open loop" as the 07 - 09 does have an O2 sensor. Pulling the mid-pipe cat and advancing the ignition timing makes it the happy spot very pleasant. Didn't hurt the MPGs either but have to run better fuel now.

 

[Water Bear]

I know Polaris is successful, but how committed are they to Indian and cutting into Victory sales?

Do you know the market for Indian overlaps significantly with the market for Victory? Just a thought.

 

[Dry Martini]

Agreed, there have been alot of Indian resurrections. Most of them were doomed from the beginning, simply because retail prices were way too high..(2006-2011) or because the name was owned by AMC (1960's) or they were just re-badged Royal Enfields, haha.



Finally a company owns it that can financially support it. You can see that theres Indian dealerships popping up quite a few places and there are plenty of Cheif's out there on the road.



Yes, It may seem like the Indain name may take sales away from victory, but so what? Its still a sale by Polaris. The real sucess is luring in Harley customers and taking some of those sales.



I think its finally a good time for a good Indian resurrection. The baby boomers polulation are the real Harley lovers. And they're not getting any younger (no offence to any boomer on this forum). Eventually they'll be out of the motorcycle market. Other people like like us millennials are getting to a more financially sound point in our lives. On top of that alot of us will outgrow that "sport bike" phaze. If they keep on producing stuff like the Scout, a cruiser with a modernized v-twin. I think Indian will reel in a good share of that market.



but hey, Thats just my rambling thoughs!

Outgrow the sportbike? Never! You are speaking heresy! I have met a lot of old boomers who have not outgrown that phase.

As long as there are twisty mountain roads, I will have sportbike of some sort. If the only bike left for sale was touring bikes, I would take up aviation.


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[Motogiro]

Outgrow the sportbike? Never! You are speaking heresy! I have met a lot of old boomers who have not outgrown that phase.

As long as there are twisty mountain roads, I will have sportbike of some sort. If the only bike left for sale was touring bikes, I would take up aviation.


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Lol!

Here ya go.....

And

 

[Dry Martini]

Do you know the market for Indian overlaps significantly with the market for Victory? Just a thought.

I just see it as another cruiser bike of some ilk. Add it to the victory, harley, and all the metric cruisers and, <yawn>


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[bluremi]

I just see it as another cruiser bike of some ilk. Add it to the victory, harley, and all the metric cruisers and, <yawn>

I dunno...that's a pretty sexy bike. The engine is fantastic, apparently.

 

[Dry Martini]

I dunno...that's a pretty sexy bike. The engine is fantastic, apparently.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.


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[Water Bear]

I just see it as another cruiser bike of some ilk. Add it to the victory, harley, and all the metric cruisers and, <yawn>


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You may see it that way, but the people who buy cruisers might not.

I get this feeling that the Indian will compete directly with Harley buyers, whereas the few times I've seen a Victory on the road the driver has been...not exactly your typical Harley rider.

 

[Dry Martini]

You may see it that way, but the people who buy cruisers might not.



I get this feeling that the Indian will compete directly with Harley buyers, whereas the few times I've seen a Victory on the road the driver has been...not exactly your typical Harley rider.

Most die hard harley riders don't want a water cooled bike. Just look at the poor sales figures for the V rod.


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[Erci]

Wow lots of great statements and opinions in this thread :thumbup:

I used to be the "I'll never own a cruiser" guy. I've now ridden more bikes than I can count and you know what? I love all kinds!! (provided they're the good examples of whatever style they are).

2014 Indian was the best cruiser I've ridden to date, in terms of transmission smoothness, massive torque at just about any RPM and general smoothness.

I think Indian's biggest problem is and will be the fact that prices are up there with Harleys and there are just too many people out there who would sooner buy an actual turd pile with a Harley emblem on it than a great motorcycle from any other manufacturer.

Since taking up track riding, I really don't care about anything sporty for the street (yes, my FZ1 is too sporty at this point.. still great set up the way I have it, but I want something a bit different).

My 2 top bikes at the moment are 2014 FJR and 2014 VStrom 1000. Absolutely loved riding both. Would prefer VStrom for everyday riding, but would much prefer FJR for longer rides and colder weather.

So many great bikes.. so little garage space

 

[2old2ride]

So what you are saying is, the EU's much vaunted tiered licensing is not working?

Actually I was thinking you were talking about the US gov's crack down on high HP bikes. They don't care about the small number of people killed on any size motorcycle.


Actually there was a gentlemens agreement back in the early 90s to limit bikes to a top speed of 155. That agreement was broken by all the major players. Now another agreement has been a sham. I bet the EU cronies will be influenced by big money and we won't see anything come of this.



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One hopes you are correct. On the other hand, when has any bureaucrat ever turned down the opportunity to do a little turf building? Once the Feds get their hands on something, getting them to turn loose is hard.:cheer:

 

[Dry Martini]

One hopes you are correct. On the other hand, when has any bureaucrat ever turned down the opportunity to do a little turf building? Once the Feds get their hands on something, getting them to turn loose is hard.:cheer:

In the US, no one even notices motorcycles. So a politician is not going to waste effort and resources on something, if it does not garner any votes.

Also look at Motorcycle accident statistics. The majority of people who are involved in an accident are in the 40-50 age group, not our precious youth.

The majority of states allow riding without a helmet (if over 21). That does not sound like politicians caring about people's safety.


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[ChanceCoats123]

In the US, no one even notices motorcycles. So a politician is not going to waste effort and resources on something, if it does not garner any votes.

Also look at Motorcycle accident statistics. The majority of people who are involved in an accident are in the 40-50 age group, not our precious youth.

The majority of states allow riding without a helmet (if over 21). That does not sound like politicians caring about people's safety.


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I couldn't agree more. I always wear a helmet when I ride (I'm 19), and I think those who don't are going about motorcycle riding all wrong (just a personal opinion, no offense meant). I read an article a while back about how the largest age group of accidents (and unfortunately deaths) is actually the 40 year olds who used to ride and stopped for a while. Once they start riding again, they hop on their 1800cc cruiser or 1000cc sport bike after years of no riding and aren't competent riders anymore. I ride safely while still enjoying myself, and I don't think that's too much to ask of a rider.

 

[Hellgate]

My Tuono V4R gets 27. My car gets 19. Who cares? I saw regular at $2.64 today. I figure I'm making out on the Tuono.

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