draggin knee

[DefyInertia]

Ped, I was waiting for you to show up...I almost PM'd you the link.

I agree there is no "right form". There is the text-book form that most will agree has the most advantages when carving a nice clear perfect-world corner but the world isn't perfect and there are often other things you need to deal with such as the guy who's about to stuff you, or a hill like Ped said.

Look at Spies, pretty damn good form except for the elbow thing which clearly sets him apart....it'd be kinda foolish to say there is something wrong with his form, ya know???

FWIW, it's pretty hard to get your upper body down when you've got handlebars as opposed to clipons....you end up breaking your wrist and losing throttle control as a result; form does not trump good control of the gas/brake/clutch, for example.
________
SICK FROM PAXIL

 

[gmickey2001]

I have a question for you guys. I am 6'1" and like to ride most of the time with my butt all the way to the back of the rider portion of the seat. This gives the most comfortable angle for my legs and ankles as I do not have rear-sets.

When I am coming in to a turn and want to achieve maximum cornering and minimum lean angle, it seems that moving forward so that my crotch is up against the tank allows for a more effecting body position. My upper body is low and off to the side of the tank & bars. If I do the same, but remain at the back of the seat, my upper body is more adjacent to the seat.

Do you agree that the more forward position is more effective?

I assume it is (it feels more effective), the only problem is that in this position, I have almost no ability to get my foot the the shift lever, as the angle is too great. Maybe this is OK, I don't normally shift while cornering.

TIA :Sport:

 

[deljs]

Never a knee. Scraped pegs a couple of times on my Kawi back in the olden days (California Hwy 1). Not on the FZ6 though. Practicing hanging off recently, so it may be awhile before anything scrapes.

DefyInertia, love your pics! :rockon:

 

[ScottyJFZ]

Never have gotten a knee down on my FZ1...but I have never NEEDED to put a knee down or even scrape a peg feeler on the street....I think it is something that happens as you get to become a better rider and learn about body position, lines into corners, bike set up. etc...there are a lot of variables that go into it. I have been on the Dragon several times following some damn fast riders and while they may be dragging a knee or scraping pegs...i am able to keep up with out dragging a thing....but I reiterate it depends on a lot of variables....I am also a short guy at 5'9" and I know guys that are 6'5" and it seems that when in a lean their knees are closer to the road then where my knees are...it is not a major factor but I think it has a bit to do with it....

Bike Set-up: My FZ1 has Penske Rear shock and Traxxion Dynamics revalve and springs up front...so it sticks in the curves and I think it has more to do with why I have not needed to drag a knee or anything else...

In my avatar I probably could have put my knee out and maybe dragged my knee but i think if it happens...it will be most likely on the track and I truely believe as i get smoother and faster it will just naturally happen...I would never go out and try to do it...that could be bad on the street

Just my 2 cents

Scotty J.

 

[ped]

dragging a knee is a good thing. even if (i say especially if) you're on the street. you dont want to go too far without realizing it. my cornering ability and my ability to be safe went up exponentially when i started to drag my knees. what you should focus your concern on how fast you're going through a corner and thats it. not wether you're dragging stuff.

 

[opds9091]

i have a question about knee dragging. What mods should be done to the bike for cornering/knee dragging. I am looking foward to learing but want to know what should be done to the bike. ANY help..

 

[DefyInertia]

i have a question about knee dragging. What mods should be done to the bike for cornering/knee dragging. I am looking foward to learing but want to know what should be done to the bike. ANY help..

Remove your peg feelers.
________
Live sex

 

[SpitFire]

Have not yet had the opportunity. Need a track for that and not able to get to one.

 

[thatguyx]

One day got really bored and decided to try dragging a knee in a parking lot. This parking lot used to be an MSF training course, so there was a large circle painted/faded into the asphault. I decided to follow it as long as I could. Eventually leaning off and then trying to dip my knee (do not do this, you shouldnt try to drag a knee, it comes with more speed and lean). Well anyway, around 25-30mph I was hanging off like a monkey and then I heard it and felt it on my right left. Scraaaaape. oh yeah baby. Straightened up, pulled over and checked out the puck. Probably 30mph roughly a few feet, very uncomfortable feeling getting that low for the first time. Then I decided to even out the right side. scraaaaape. Sweet I know how much I have to hang off at this particular circle/speed. Then back over the the left knee again sweet this is getting pretty easy. Twice on the left... might as well go for it on the right. Unfortunately I must've been going 15mph or less, and then i heard scraaaaape and then thud. Probably rolled off the throttle unconciously and didnt have enough speed to keep me up. Leather pants undamaged, uncaged frame slider had some minor rash, and a 2" scratch on my lower cowl. ahah lesson learned, try it at the track.

 

[Hellgate]

Okay - everyone needs to read Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist" then joint this discussion. This book is was written in 1983, when believe it or not, people were debating the merits of hanging off. If you ride on the track that arguement is long dead. Regardless of what you think hanging off will allow to bike to drag less stuff because your center of gravity is LOWER, in turn the bike can be HIGHER, further away from the edge of the tire. This will help you with braking, acceleration and traction in general.

Dragging knee is a result of leaning the bike, it will not slow you down one 1/100th of a mile per hour, neither will dragging peg for that matter, the pegs fold you know, hell, dragging you exhaust will not slow you down...not sure if the FZ does that.

The knee on the ground serves a couple of purposes, 1) curb feeler - it is a guage, 2) slide controller - if the front end begins to push you and can push up with your knee to control the slide. King Kenny was the best.

Regardless of corner you should be setting up with the same position each time, that way you had a constant to judge from.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm not sure I ever want to be at the "limits of traction" in case something (rock, gravel, cager, another cyclist, oil, animal, etc all) bad happens. So, not sure how useful this skill would ever be for me. If I get a track bike, it'll be a cheap lil EX250 with some suspension mods.

 

[HavBlue]

Ped, I was waiting for you to show up...I almost PM'd you the link.

I agree there is no "right form". There is the text-book form that most will agree has the most advantages when carving a nice clear perfect-world corner but the world isn't perfect and there are often other things you need to deal with such as the guy who's about to stuff you, or a hill like Ped said.

Look at Spies, pretty damn good form except for the elbow thing which clearly sets him apart....it'd be kinda foolish to say there is something wrong with his form, ya know???

FWIW, it's pretty hard to get your upper body down when you've got handlebars as opposed to clipons....you end up breaking your wrist and losing throttle control as a result; form does not trump good control of the gas/brake/clutch, for example.

Agreed and what may work on a bike with clip-ons won't work on a bike with bars. Two different set-ups requiring two different styles but one thing remains certain, the best form is the one that creates the lowest lap times for the individual rider.....

 

[Hellgate]

Agreed and what may work on a bike with clip-ons won't work on a bike with bars. Two different set-ups requiring two different styles but one thing remains certain, the best form is the one that creates the lowest lap times for the individual rider.....

Not true at all, you can drag knee with a Gold Wing is so inclined.

Here's a photo of Freddie Spencer back in the day on a Honda CB series bike. The layout of the bike does not matter unless it is a cruiser with way laid back ergos.

 

[HavBlue]

Not true at all, you can drag knee with a Gold Wing is so inclined.

Here's a photo of Freddie Spencer back in the day on a Honda CB series bike. The layout of the bike does not matter unless it is a cruiser with way laid back ergos.

Sure you can Pete and physics would suggest you can hang an elephant from a cliff with a Daisy if you tried hard enough.

If you look at that photo you will find there is no riser or very little as the case were and the bars were basically drag bars. Put a 2 or 3 inch riser on there, which would elevate the rider and things do change. Get off your FZ6 and get on to an R6 on the same road or track and to me all sorts of things just got easier simply because of the ergos and head set-up.

The bike would rather the rider wasn't there at all and it likes to remain upright. We help the bike to lean through steering and weight transfer. The lower we get the easier it is for the bike to do what it doesn't really want to do.

 

[Hellgate]

Sure you can Pete and physics would suggest you can hang an elephant from a cliff with a Daisy if you tried hard enough.

If you look at that photo you will find there is no riser or very little as the case were and the bars were basically drag bars. Put a 2 or 3 inch riser on there, which would elevate the rider and things do change. Get off your FZ6 and get on to an R6 on the same road or track and to me all sorts of things just got easier simply because of the ergos and head set-up.

The bike would rather the rider wasn't there at all and it likes to remain upright. We help the bike to lean through steering and weight transfer. The lower we get the easier it is for the bike to do what it doesn't really want to do.

Nope standard Superbike bar, with those 500 lbs bikes you needed a big wide bar to muscle them around.

Yes it is easier on an R6 than an FZ but that isn't to say there is one riding style for each type of bike.

The FZ is really an easy bike to hang off with, the tank is nice and wide, the pegs are right under your hips, and you get good leverage with the handle bar.

 

[HavBlue]

Nope standard Superbike bar, with those 500 lbs bikes you needed a big wide bar to muscle them around.

Yes it is easier on an R6 than an FZ but that isn't to say there is one riding style for each type of bike.

The FZ is really an easy bike to hang off with, the tank is nice and wide, the pegs are right under your hips, and you get good leverage with the handle bar.

The bars on the two pictures here aren't even close to the bars on Spencer's bike.

Agreed, the FZ6 can be hung off quite easily but not as easy as the R6 or other RR type arrangements. The RR type bike's pegs are back further and higher as well. The seat on the RR bike is also wider and made of a material that makes sliding much easier as well. Bottom line is style does change with set-up. Granted, there won't be a huge difference but there is a difference just the same.

 

[DefyInertia]

Simply hanging off and draggin knee all day long does not mean you have good form by today's standards.

You can drag knee with any bike, yes. But it's damn hard to have GOOD FORM on a bike with high handlebars like the stock FZ6. The pictures hellgate posted do not show text book 21st century form.

#21, although doing great on THAT bike during THAT time, has horrible form by today's standards...look at his outside arm...it's a good foot above the tank and his head is almost centered with the bike.

 

[bikerider]

What is the correct form when dragging? What to do?

 

[HavBlue]

Simply hanging off and draggin knee all day long does not mean you have good form by today's standards.

You can drag knee with any bike, yes. But it's damn hard to have GOOD FORM on a bike with high handlebars like the stock FZ6. The pictures hellgate posted do not show text book 21st century form.

#21, although doing great on THAT bike during THAT time, has horrible form by today's standards...look at his outside arm...it's a good foot above the tank and his head is almost centered with the bike.

I understand what you are saying DI but the bottom line is this, if there were 2 riders and one had perfect form on a particular bike then the other got on that same bike and stood on his head to get around the track but beat your time by even a millisecond it could be said his "form" must be better as this were the only difference. Text book perfection doesn't necessarily mean the rider will attain the best times nor does it mean it is what is best for that rider. We are different and because of this what works for one may not work at all for the other......

 

[DefyInertia]

Yeah Hav, I was pretty much in agreement with everything you said. Note that I mentioned earlier that "text book" is just that, text book....Spies, Freddie, etc. etc. don't have text book form. Text book is just optimum in a pefect world but now I'm repeating myself in the same thread.....

Hav, do you drag knee on the street and do you really think race tracks are for kids?