Clutch Slipping and problems getting into 1st

[henrykins111]

Today, for the second time since i've changed my oil, my clutch has slipped. I don't know how bad it was since I have nothing to compare it to, but it slipped for about 1.5 seconds while I was shifting up at ~6000rpms. Should I start looking at replacing my clutch? Or would changing to a less slippery oil possibly help? Another problem I have noticed is when I am slowing down and shifting into 1st, it will, at random, not let me downshift. I will pop into neutral from second and there is a loud ticking/grinding at any attempt to move it into first for a good couple of seconds. Does that sound related to the clutch slipping issue? For reference also, I changed my oil ~1800 miles ago with mobil 1 racing 4t
Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[Tahlen]

FWIW I changed my oil to what you're running when I bought the bike this spring and haven't had any issues whatsoever. What sort of mileage has your fine specimen accumulated? Any idea if the clutch was ever replaced? How much free play does your clutch lever have? The manual suggests 10-15mm, though this would change if you have swapped to short levers.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

How many miles are on the clutch?

As to your other issue, not being able to downshift into first. One time, I went to shift into second and caught neutral instead. I tried going up (and down) but got a loud noise like you mentioned. I stopped and it went into first just fine. Since then, I've seen the same issue as you, just once. I just realized that I hasn't put enough pressure onto the shift pedal. I just "knocked"it down into first and it was fine after that. I figure it's just something with how the dogs lined up.

 

[iSteve]

I just want to say that I tried Mobile 1 in my bike and had hard shifting and lots of gear noise. I dumped it after 300 miles. I didn't have any clutch slipping problems. Are you sure it was the clutch slipping and not a mis-shift where the gears don't quite engage momentarily.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Is the small, lower clutch lever, located on the engine, (right side) fully releasing with just a tiny bit of cable play? (I'm trying to determine if your clutch cable may be frayed internally and NOT fully releasing that arm).

As posted above, how many miles on the bike and how has the clutch been used to best of your knowledge (previous owner), run hard, burn outs, etc??

Re downshifting, as you slow, you should be downshifting a click at a time (don't wait until your fully stopped to downshift 5 times). You WILL be letting the clutch out some to get the gear shafts turning so the shifter drum, shifter forks can move the gears..

 

[Motogiro]

Almost sounds like you have a bad cable? It might be hanging up in the sheath.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Almost sounds like you have a bad cable? It might be hanging up in the sheath.

I was editing mine with the same thought as to your post!

 

[pantone]

I would like to suggest you to check if your clutch lever pivot is jammed or not. See my post before.
http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ever-pivot.html?highlight=jammed+clutch+lever

 

[FinalImpact]

Just an observation: a few have grenaded clutch disks and ran them through the engine. A common them in those that came apart was the color of grenaded clutch parts. From the oem they are light in color and once slipped under power the friction material can burn. Once burned, the glue lets go and disc can come apart.

Point: if it slipped allot, inspection and maybe replacement of the discs might save you some headache down the road... i.e. id replace blackened frictions discs.

What oil was in it?

 

[henrykins111]

A better description of the clutch issue: I am rolling at 6000 in 4th gear and I go to shift up. I pull in the clutch, shift up, and let go then immediately roll on the throttle. The bike acts as if it is in neutral for a second, spiking up to redline and I have to let off the throttle until I feel it "catch" again.

My clutch is original with 14,000 miles on the bike. Reading into it more, it seems like it should still be okay for that number of miles. I don't know the owner who I bought it from, but if I were to judge, I would say he was the kind of guy to screw around sometimes. He races dirt bikes professionally, but he was safe in the way that he was an atgatt guy. That doesn't tell the whole story though.

Another symptom to note is it will make a slight noise when doing a hard start, which I also think would indicate clutch issues.

As to the guy who suggested a mis-shift, I am almost insulted, haha. I have been riding for a couple years, with 4000 miles on this bike. AFAIK, a mis-shift, in a car at least, is shifting into the wrong gear and that would be a pretty hard thing to do on a motorcycle. The only time my problem has happened to me is when I am at high speeds and rpms, so in like 4th or 5th to 5th or 6th gear, so it is not me switching into neutral.

My clutch cable is very smooth, and I have never had it hang up. I know what a fraying clutch cable feels like and I don't feel that now. The clutch also has the right amount of play.

Anyways, I might just change the oil back to non synthetic for now and see how that is. I feel like that hopefully would help because I have only really noticed anything after the change. I do have proper oil amount( I had originally had it almost at the top of the dipstick but have as of 3 days ago taken some out to put it at the middle), so I wouldn't see any problems there. I might do the clutch as well just because it is so cheap and I am going to college in a week so I don't want to have to screw with it then.

A quick question on changing the clutch now: Since it has reasonably low mileage, should I probably just do the friction plates? Or should I replace the metal plates and the springs and everything as well?

I'll try these things over this week and update, but if anyone has any other suggestions, then I would be happy to hear them.

Thanks for all of the posts so far, everyone.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

From your latest post, I would definitly pull the clutch cover and inspect. At 14,000 miles it shouldn't be slipping, especially that bad.

One member had a disc let loose while riding doubled up, just going up an incline (as I re-call).

Its a pretty simple and not terribly involved to pull it and check. If there's a disc broke, it needs to come out ASAP.

I seriously doubt its the oil, I've run Mobil 4T (mixed with 5100) without issues and have more miles than you. Changing the oil won't hurt but running the engine with a possible broken disc will..

At least TWO engines that I know of had clutch friction parts IMMBEDED in-between the crank gear and clutch basket. To this date and my knowledge, neither are fixed yet. Aluminum became part of the steel gears .

Re the plates, steels, you won't know until its apart. There are some
markings you have to pay attention to when re-assembling.

You don't even have to drain the oil yet while doing the clutch (on the side stand).

 

[FinalImpact]

FWIW: I run the sh$t outta mine and it doesn't slip. As stated and coming from working at a transmission shop rebuilding automatic transmissions; when bonded clutch friction material burns, there seems to be three basic failure modes:
- Lack of pressure (springs lost clamping power). On a Auto in a Cage, a pump builds pressure and pistons apply force. Not applicable here, but if you loose clamping power, clutches burn.
- Improper lubricant or contamination
- Mechanical (in this case), something prevented the basket from applying all of the springs force (lever, cable, or something else)

The steels you measure for flatness and thickness. If they meet spec, reuse them.
Personally if I had an engine flare to Redline I'd go into it knowing I'm replacing the springs and clutch discs.
Lastly - I dumped that Mobil One 4T as the engine was not smooth (it didn't rev nicely and had more vibrations, plus the gear box was all notchy and felt like crap! I switched oils to Amsoil. Been using it ever since.

 

[Carlos840]

I just want to say that I tried Mobile 1 in my bike and had hard shifting and lots of gear noise. I dumped it after 300 miles. I didn't have any clutch slipping problems. Are you sure it was the clutch slipping and not a mis-shift where the gears don't quite engage momentarily.

Same experience using Mobile 1, i switched to Motul 7100 and the bike was much happier!

 

[FinalImpact]

I just want to say that I tried Mobile 1 in my bike and had hard shifting and lots of gear noise. I dumped it after 300 miles. I didn't have any clutch slipping problems. Are you sure it was the clutch slipping and not a mis-shift where the gears don't quite engage momentarily.

<<SNIP>>
Lastly - I dumped that Mobil One 4T as the engine was not smooth. It didn't rev nicely and had more vibrations, plus the gear box was all notchy and felt like crap! I switched oils to Amsoil. Been using it ever since.

Same experience using Mobile 1, i switched to Motul 7100 and the bike was much happier!

I know Steve and myself have posted this many times before. This makes three of us who likely will NOT use Mobil 1 4T ever again .....

So ah - at least two of us threw away $45 bucks as it just didn't seem right. I dumped mine way short of the suggested interval but certainly more than 300 miles.

/ end thread derail

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Any updates?

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

PM sent for ANY UPDATES...

 

[monteitis]

Hey folks, I'm resurrecting this thread!

I recently have been experiencing the same issue, under hardish to hard acceleration. While I'm not sure if it has happened in other gears, I know for a fact it's happened in 2nd and 5th gears, AFTER the shift was complete. For example, two days ago I shifted into 5th gear, accelerating hard. 1-2 seconds after the shift, the bike pops out of 5th, I hit redline, pull clutch, kick up, release again... all good, but I became an instant squid and almost went into the side of a car (was in the process of passing and changing back to right lane, during a left bend).

It has gotten slightly worse over the past 2 months or so... In an effort to figure this out, I'll lay out everything that COULD be a factor and hopefully you good people can weigh in:

-I am using Mobil 1 4T synthetic (have been using this and loving it for about 9k miles, bike has 19k altogether). I am due for an oil change, and bike has original clutch.

-I went through a period of clutchless shifting earlier this summer, found it much easier and smoother to change from 3rd gear up, and when accelerating hard. I stopped shifting clutchless completely the first time I experienced my bike pop out of 5th gear while accelerating hard onto a highway.

-I lubricate clutch cable regularly, and have enough free play. I ruled out the cable by trying my best to replicate the problem on a back road by putting slight pressure on the clutch, releasing at different speeds, etc.

-I have been lazy at times with my riding boots, and have used regular Nikes. Can't confirm 100%, but I thinkkkk this problem with popping out of gear has only occurred while riding with these sneakers. I know I'm not getting as much kick on the shifter because I've also hit neutral instead of 2nd a couple of times with these shoes, and that hasn't happened in a while. Then again, I've ridden the last 18k in all kinds of boots/sneakers/shoes and never had the bike pop out of gear until now.

-I ride the bike hard, almost every time I ride. I commute 35 miles each way with stop and go, dotted yellows that I take full advantage of, and a couple of highway ramps that I enjoy thoroughly. On the weekends, I head west to country roads and have fun. I also have done a fair amount of 2-up riding in the mountains, and I push the fz6 as hard as it will go. My gf is a fellow adrenaline junkie!

I've read a lot of posts regarding this issue, and it sounds like my problem is one of the following:

1) Dogs and/or shift forks are worn. That would suck.

2) I'm shifting lazy... which caused this issue and probably has led to dogs and shift forks getting damaged.

3) Possibly the transmission detent spring has gotten weak and is causing problems shifting completely into gear. Cheap, easy fix. They sell an upgraded fix for the R6 and a handful of other bikes that people swear by, but nothing for fz6 unfortunately.


So obviously, my first step is going to be an oil change and to ALWAYS wear my riding boots. I will also move my shift lever one notch down to make a more solid contact.

If the problem continues, I'll change the detent spring.

If the problem continues, I will sell the bike. I don't have the space to pull the engine and open up the case... and a shop would charge more than what I paid for the bike 3 years ago.

Here are some interesting posts I discovered throughout this process:

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/25516-false-neutrals-3.html

SOLUTION: Transmission 2nd Gear Slip : Yamaha R6 : R6 Forum


Any and all suggestions, speculations, and wisdom is more than welcome!

gratuitous bike pics:

 

[FinalImpact]

From what you explained the in the above to the OP's condition, these items are not related. Perhaps a new thread?

You never mention the clutch slips only that it pops out of gear. Riding gear aside, it wants a deliberate action for gear changes. If you're being too delicate and its not going completely into gear, its going to come out. Rough guess but 5 ~ 10 times under full load and the gears w/ 20k on them may be fine. If say 5th has popped out 30 ~ 40 times, the gear and clutch dog are likely rounded and damaged.

Change the oil.
Cut open the filter and look in the pleats for metal shards
Shift it like you mean it....
Thats my thoughts. Oh and a new thread....

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

+1^^^. Either lazy shifts or some rounded dogs.

If you know you are in a certain gear and can get it to pop out (into a false neutral or other gear) W/O touching the shifter, its the transmission..

 

[monteitis]

Thanks for the response, and apologies to the OP for hijacking. Didn't wanna get flamed for not searching, and thought mayyybe my case was related due to unlikely nature of his clutch slipping so prematurely.

In any case, I'm swapping oil and experimenting this weekend. Thanks again for the feedback!