Clunky Shift

[Criminal Pilot]

Hi all,

I've been riding the FZ6 for a little over a month now and learned a lot... and forgotten a lot. Now I'm looking for some advice!

Since the beginning of ownership, I've noticed that the FZ6 has a fairly 'clunky' shifter. Going up or down in gear (doesn't matter which) results in a noisy clunk, regardless of clutch position, engine/tran. rpm, etc. The largest clunk is always from neutral to first at a stand still, and the noise gets less and less noticeable as my speed increases and I go to higher gears.

Normally, this wouldn't really raise too many flags in my head because I've heard quieter bikes with louder 'clunks' shifting from neutral. What really gets me thinking though, is that the clunk totally disappears when it is cold. For example, if I start riding while the temperature indicator still says "Lo", then the shifter is like butter, feels fantastic. No noise.

However, as soon as it gets to about 50C+ indicated, the noise starts coming back. At 80C+ indicated, it's as loud as it will get, and it stays that way until I leave the bike and let it cool to <40C again.

My first thought is the oil. Because of the wet clutch, I'm assuming oil has a pretty big impact on shifting. I'm wondering if changing my oil would improve this? I've heard of people switching to synthetic and getting creamy smooth shifts. I have no problem and no apprehension with switching oils. I've been looking at AMSOIL. It's so expensive though...

Anyway, I've spent hundreds of hours reading up on different types of oil and I'll be totally honest.. I'm an idiot with this stuff. I've read all the info and how to determine what oil works best in what temperature and condition, and how to decipher the 10w40 rating or 5w50 or what have you. Nonetheless, I can't figure out which way to go from my current 10w40. There are a lot of options out there, and I don't really care what I put in it as long as it helps smooth the shifting, and the bike will still run in Calgary climate.

I don't know how cold it will be before I quit riding, but I'm open to suggestion from other Calgary riders or anyone in a similar climate!


I changed the oil about two weeks after ownership simply due to the previous owner having left the bike to sit for nearly a year. The previous owner used BelRay 10w40. I switched to Yamalube 10w40. I'll be due for an oil change again in nearly 3000km or so, so please let me know what you think, so that I can start thinking about where to go from here!


Details:

• 2008 FZ6 (SHG model?)
• Purchased at 1400km
• Oil chainged at 1900km.
• Full inspection and maintenance run came up clean from the dealer at 2000km, including all core components + chain, sprockets, tires, brakes, cables, clutch, etc.
• Currently at 4500km's on the odometer (that's 3100km in just over a month of ownership).
• Location is Calgary, Alberta - Canada.

I give it regular inspections (usually twice a week) for the basics, and cleaning/up-keep comes even more often (sometimes after every ride). Any ideas on what to check for? Is it the oil, or should I be looking elsewhere? Hopefully I didn't purchase a lemon!

P.S. Please try to keep it semi-dumbed-down. I'm decent with engines, but I'm new to bikes and I'm not a mechanic by any means. My brother is, and he could help me, but I'd like to understand it myself, too!
P.P.S Sinere apologies if this is a double post. I've read so much on this forum about different oils and different noises the bike makes (the infamous 'buzzing', for one), and all of that fun stuff. So if I've missed the one(s) relevant to my post, please redirect me! Thanks!!

Thanks a lot!!

 

[Alabusa]

Amsoil is very good oil and worth the cost. Think of it as cheap insurance. If you decide to go that route use the 10w-40. It OS made for water cooled and the 20w-50 is for air cooled.

sent from Bama using tapatalk

 

[PhotoAl]

Like you describe the shifting is better when cold and gets worse when up to temperature. When it gets hot like in stop and go traffic in 90 plus temps it gets a little worse. If you preload the shifter (put pressure on it before you make the shift) it is smoother.


Good synthetic oil does make a difference. I've been running Rotella T6 and am happy with it - 22,000 miles. Bob the Oil Guy has a good site about oils. Dont stress too much about oil get a good motorycycle synthetic and change it regularly. Motul, Amsol, Rotella, etc. don't care for synthetic blends.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Yes your choice of oil will greatly affect your shifts everybody on this forum will have their own opinion me personally I run royal purple 10 w 40 in my shifts are silky smooth

Sent from my R800x using Tapatalk

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Meh, I run whichever synthetic is cheapest at the cycle store. Oil is oil. Clunky shifting is a characteristic of the bike. Part of that is probably related to the single clutch system. In other words, the engine is always turning the tranny, even if the clutch is pulled. All the clutch does is remove the chain side from the equation.

Pre-loading it does put less pressure on the shifter and the dogs so it's more likely to slip into place during a low-stress time and feel smoother. Just be careful not to limp foot it.

I did that today and it popped back down a gear when I was hauling ass.

 

[iSteve]

Almost all motorcycles use the same type of clutch and constant mesh transmission and a lot of them clunk into first, but not all do, not a clue why. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

I've use Amsoil, Motul and Mobil One and there is no difference that I can tell. Not that I expected there would be.

 

[Criminal Pilot]

Thanks for the tips fellas. I guess I'll soon start looking for an affordable synthetic alternative to my current Yamalube blend, and either work up from there, or return to normal based on my thoughts (placebo effect or otherwise).

Too bad it's not possible to achieve that 'cold shift' with oil alone. Went for a ride this morning and I can barely even feel it in the right conditions. Just enough to know it's there, but not so much the driver behind me cringes at the sound.

Anyway, you've all been a huge help. I'm relieved to hear the clunk is the bikes fault, and not mine. I'll play with preloading next time I go out and see how smooth I can get.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks for the tips fellas. I guess I'll soon start looking for an affordable synthetic alternative to my current Yamalube blend, and either work up from there, or return to normal based on my thoughts (placebo effect or otherwise).

Too bad it's not possible to achieve that 'cold shift' with oil alone. Went for a ride this morning and I can barely even feel it in the right conditions. Just enough to know it's there, but not so much the driver behind me cringes at the sound.

Anyway, you've all been a huge help. I'm relieved to hear the clunk is the bikes fault, and not mine. I'll play with preloading next time I go out and see how smooth I can get.

If you pull the clutch in (I pull and release several times when cold) and hold it in for approx 5-8 seconds BEFORE SHIFTING, the transmission shafts WILL STOP SPINNING and the clunk will be less.

With the clutch plates disengaged the main transmission shaft WILL STOP SPINNING the rest fof the shafts/gears.

When in neutral, and the clutch out, everything IS SPINNING, thus the clunk when shifting into first immediatly.

My FJR is the same set up. I do the same method with the FJR as the FZ and the first gear clunk is much less...

I use semi synthetic oil (Motul 10W40 5100) and a K&P SS oil filter swhich flows considerable more oil ( Custom Oil Filters - Reusable Oil Filters - Cleanable Oil Filters - Green Oil Filters ) and am very happy with the results.. The engine is considerably quieter than most sound clips I've heard (8,000+ miles on the clock).

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Meh, I can't tell for sure which side the clutch is on from the schematics. I just know it clunks a lot. No matter what I've tried. And as far as sequential transmissions are designed, it shouldn't matter.

But in the end, I'm an electronics tech, not a mechanic or an engineer, so I could be wrong. And I can live with that.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Meh, I can't tell for sure which side the clutch is on from the schematics. I just know it clunks a lot. No matter what I've tried. And as far as sequential transmissions are designed, it shouldn't matter.

But in the end, I'm an electronics tech, not a mechanic or an engineer, so I could be wrong. And I can live with that.

When you put oil into the engine thru the filler hole(right side), your literally pouring oil onto the clutch/clutch assembly/basket... The little lever right next to the fill hole (where your clutch cable goes to), that's the clutch activator lever that transmits motion from the cable to the clutch itself...

Pull the clutch lever in and you'll see the plates separate.

 

[FinalImpact]

OP - the cold oil offers more cushion. Although the 1st time you drop it into gear in the morning there is good "clunk", the thicker cold oil is doing more cushioning so the sound is less when making the other shifts. Mine is the exact same way.

You can start it in gear if that bothers you. And as Townsend said, if dropping into 1st, exercise the clutch several times before moving the shifter. If its real bad and you happen to be in a place where you can roll down a hill or push off easily do that as you drop it into gear.

The rest is all about matching the RPMs for smooth transitions through the gears. Don't think too hard, just do it and relax. As said, for low speed traffic putting shifts, preload the shifter just prior to pulling in the clutch.

 

[Deleted member 17211]

Matching is the whole key as said above. I've shifted fast-aggresive in hot weather and gotten silent shifts (minus neutral to first) and I've gotten nasty clunk even when doing it slow and preloading. It's all about how matched you are.

I tend to just push the bike slightly forward when shifting into 1st from N. That gives me a quiet smooth drop.

 

[ph0xx]

What do you guys mean when you say "preloading the shifter"?

 

[callmegandhi]

Sounds about right.

 

[FinalImpact]

What do you guys mean when you say "preloading the shifter"?

Its a method of applying pressure to the shift lever and THEN pulling the clutch in while completing the full travel and rate to get the next gear. Hint: no lazy slow shift lever movements.

Also, be wise to how far you pull the clutch lever. Lets say it has 100% travel. But I only need the first 20% to make a gear change and maybe 35 to 40% travel to go from N to 1st. SO, don't pull it all the way in when shifting gears. Just blip it the 20% needed to take the load off the gears.

Make sense?

EDIT: The longer the clutch is in use, the greater the variance of RPM's can be due to time especially when we use our wrist to match speed and blow it.

This is the % difference between each gear in RPM.
1st > 2nd = -32%
2nd > 3rd = -20%
3rd > 4th = -14%
4th > 5th = -11%
5th > 6th = -9%
Obviously the 1 - 2 shift takes the greatest skill to obtain ZERO shock by means of throttle correction. Also, if you like this; read this link.

http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-...ead-rpm-gear-sprockets-tire-actual-speed.html

 

[ph0xx]

Thanks for the explanation. :thumbup: I think I get the gist of it now. I'll have to experiment a little and see what happens when I'm actually putting it into practice.

 

[LCR]

Why use the clutch at all when shifting? I've yet to ride any bike yet that didn't do a clutch-less shift well. Obviously the N-1st you have to use the clutch but after that I never use it again till I come to a stop.

 

[FinalImpact]

Why use the clutch at all when shifting? I've yet to ride any bike yet that didn't do a clutch-less shift well. Obviously the N-1st you have to use the clutch but after that I never use it again till I come to a stop.

Granted most all bikes can handle it and do it smoothly; it does add some degree of wear to the clutch dogs or as Yammer's calls them the wheel gear and the pinion gear as well as the shift forks. Something to keep in mind if you plan a keeping a bike for a long time.

I'm just saying a well executed shift using the clutch and your wrist will likely get more life from the internal parts.
However, depending on my mood, I too will forgo the clutch on occasion.

 

[LCR]

Hmmmm, I've never noticed it granted the pressures I feel at the lever and what actually occurs internally are different but nearly 10K miles and no clutch adjustments and it all runs fine. Even the Harley doesn't have problems with it. Hell bikes are coming from the factory with quick shifters now. So the manufacturer's have to have it engineered into the trans/clutch to handle it somehow.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Hmmmm, I've never noticed it granted the pressures I feel at the lever and what actually occurs internally are different but nearly 10K miles and no clutch adjustments and it all runs fine. Even the Harley doesn't have problems with it. Hell bikes are coming from the factory with quick shifters now. So the manufacturer's have to have it engineered into the trans/clutch to handle it somehow.

I believe the BMW's kill the igntion for a split second when shifting (when equipped with a bike designed for clutchless shifting)..

BTW, on the ride home tonight, I tried clutchless shifting on the FZ (always did it on the old 2 stroke Yamaha YZ's, etc, especially when AMA sanctioned MX racing in mostly loose sand). The FZ6 seems to shift extremly smooth (I shifted at about 4k) and sounded like an automatic!..

The clutch leverless Gen II FJRs have no clutch lever but a paddle shifter. Once stoped, its like an automatic car. It stays in gear, no clutch lever to let out, just turn the throttle and go...