Camshaft profile, anyone know the specs???

[Nelly]

This is a fantastic thread, well conducted and full of amazing innovative ideas and information.
Sadly I need to just remind you guys of the forums copyright rules.
Information, directly copied or scanned from text breaches the forum and publishers copywriting rules.
The only reason I bring this to your attention is because we have had an issue in the past where text was distributed without permission of the author.

Neil
Sent from my HTC One X

 

[fazil]

Specification sheet removed due to regulations :thumbup:

 

[FinalImpact]

As promise, here's the number I have for the 04 FZ6 cams.

IVO: 45 BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78 ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 104.5

(180+6+35) /2 -6=104.5 degree

EVO: 60 BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27 ATDC (5 @ 1mm)

ELC: 107.5 degree

I do not remember the total lift of the cams. But that can be found in the FZ6 manual. (max lobe measurement - base circle)

Hope it help. Those number could be a snug different on the FZ6... that's what I was hoping to find also. Since those are about the same numbers as the 07 R6. My educated guess would be to compare the FZ6 and R6 cam gears. Maybe the only difference is the way the cams are timed. You will be amaze what 1 or 2 degree does. (.006" slot in the cam gear is about 1 degree... give and take)

Digging up the past cause I'm playing and connecting a few dots.. .. ..

Item #1 = Intake PN: 5VX-12170-00-00
5VX-12170-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 1
IVO: 45 BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78 ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 104.5

Item #2 = Exhaust PN: 5VX-12180-00-00
5VX-12180-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 2
EVO: 60 BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27 ATDC (5 @ 1mm)
ELC: 107.5 degree

Item #3 = Gears (I & E) 5VX12176-00-00
5VX-12176-00-00 SPROCKET, CAM CHAIN

94591-49120-00 CHAIN
5SL-12210-10-00 TENSIONER ASSY, CAM CHAIN

==============
INTAKE CAM where used:
5VX-12170-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 1

2004 FZ6 - FZ600SS, FZ600SSC
2005 FZ6 - FZ6ST, FZ6STC, YZS6T
2006 FZ6 - FZS6V, FZS6VC, FZS6W
2007 FZ6 - FZS6W, FZS6WC
2008 FZ6 - FZS6XBC, FZS6XB, FZS6XLC, FZS6XL, FZS6XCB, FZS6XCL
2009 FZ6 - FZS6YB, FZS6YL, FZS6YL, FZS6YL

==============
EXHAUST where used: (Same as above)
5VX-12180-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 2
2004 - 2009 FZ6

==============
GEARS where used: (Same as above)
5VX-12176-00-00 SPROCKET, CAM CHAIN
2004 - 2009 FZ6

==============
ROTOR where used: (Same as above)
5VX-81673-00-00 ROTOR
2004 - 2009 FZ6

==============
PICK-UP ASSY where used: (Same as above)
5VX-81670-00-00 PICK-UP ASSY
2004 - 2009 FZ6

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
2014-12-01 - new info, Race cams for the R6
From: http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/pdf/03-04R6_race_manual.pdf
04 YZF-R6 SS KIT MANUAL

3 5SL-12176-70 SPROCKET, CAM 1 1 105° << keep an eye out for OEM multi position gears
4 5SL-12177-70 SPROCKET, CAM 2 1 110° <<>> 5SL-12177-80-00 IDK?

• Use the cam sprocket included in the kit for aligning valve timing. The cam sprocket included in the kit allows selection of five valve timings. In the case of aligning for the purpose of attaining a minimum squish height of 0.60 mm, use of the center mounting hole allows setting for intake valve timing of 105° and exhaust valve timing of 110°.
• Valve timing adjustment range can be changed to either ±1° or ±2° relative to the center mounting hole.

CAMS that might be in circulation:
5SL-12171-70 SHAFT, CAM 1 1 INT.296
5SL-12181-70 SHAFT, CAM 2 1 EXT.284

Working angle: I 296° | E 284°
Valve timing (sprocket): I 105° | E 110°
Valve clearance: I 0.17 – 0.23 mm | E 0.27 – 0.33 mm
Cam lobe:
INTAKE:
a: 33.45 – 33.55 mm Lift
b: 25.16 – 25.26 mm base circle
= 8.3 mm lift

EXHAUST:
a: 32.55 – 32.65 mm
b: 25.09 – 25.19 mm
= 7.46 mm lift


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

 

[FinalImpact]

Someone else is poking around and I need to tag this thread!

JJD952 - performance

 

[FinalImpact]

When the wrong springs are used, even though you have clearance!
Poor R6!
Notice exhaust valves making contact with piston?? Pretty sure the intake and exhaust got swapped. Build fail.....

 

[Marthy]

Ouch! The importance of degreeing your cams properly. Should have a minimum of 0.050" clearance at all time between valves/piston on overlap. Close the exhaust valve to late... shabang!

 

[FinalImpact]

[MENTION=16666]Marthy[/MENTION]
Did you keep the FZ6R? Also, did you ever advance the ignition/fuel trigger wheel on that? IDR....

Lastly, in your opinion does the 09 pick up the "bulk" of its torque from the 120° firing order?? All other things being equal that is.

I ask this, as that's the one thing I want from this engine and its just not an option. Well not one w/huge returns on it at least!

Tks!

 

[Marthy]

[MENTION=16666]Marthy[/MENTION]
Did you keep the FZ6R? Also, did you ever advance the ignition/fuel trigger wheel on that? IDR....

Lastly, in your opinion does the 09 pick up the "bulk" of its torque from the 120° firing order?? All other things being equal that is.

I ask this, as that's the one thing I want from this engine and its just not an option. Well not one w/huge returns on it at least!

Tks!

Oh ya, still own the old girl. At 43K miles I would not have got any decent $$$ back for it as a trade in so... I kept it. I have a second ride for rainy days, need something with luggage too and that will be the perfect ride for my wife to learn on without getting too heart broken if she ever drop it.

I did the timing gear mod too. (slot 0.020", -/+ 4 deg) Feel like it pick up more zip at mid range.

As far as the FZ09, just a different engine configuration. I haven't got into it but might check out the cam timing one of these days. My educated guess from the butt dyno is the bike has a very close lobe seperation, not a lot of overlap. That gives you a nice flat torque curve but kill the top end a bit. Since the engine characteristic is about as close to awesomeness as it can be... I don't plan of messing with it much (Let's see how long it last...LOL)

As far as having the same with a I-4 configure to spin 14K like the FZ6. Might be able to make it a bit better but the characteristics of the I-4 will always remain about the same. A little better here, and a little worst there sort off.

Like I might have mention before. The FZ6 has a 105/105 lobe centers. If I had to take a shot at it... I'll try 102/105. If you don't mind too much giving up on top end I will even go a step further with the FZ6R throttle body. I'm sure you can find some on fleebay for dirt cheap... might worth the try.

 

[FinalImpact]

Oh ya, still own the old girl. At 43K miles I would not have got any decent $$$ back for it as a trade in so... I kept it. I have a second ride for rainy days, need something with luggage too and that will be the perfect ride for my wife to learn on without getting too heart broken if she ever drop it.

I did the timing gear mod too. (slot 0.020", -/+ 4 deg) Feel like it pick up more zip at mid range.

As far as the FZ09, just a different engine configuration. I haven't got into it but might check out the cam timing one of these days. My educated guess from the butt dyno is the bike has a very close lobe seperation, not a lot of overlap. That gives you a nice flat torque curve but kill the top end a bit. Since the engine characteristic is about as close to awesomeness as it can be... I don't plan of messing with it much (Let's see how long it last...LOL)

As far as having the same with a I-4 configure to spin 14K like the FZ6. Might be able to make it a bit better but the characteristics of the I-4 will always remain about the same. A little better here, and a little worst there sort off.

Like I might have mention before. The FZ6 has a 105/105 lobe centers. If I had to take a shot at it... I'll try 102/105. If you don't mind too much giving up on top end I will even go a step further with the FZ6R throttle body. I'm sure you can find some on fleebay for dirt cheap... might worth the try.

?? What? FZ6R throttle body->> on FZ6? Is that what your saying? The 6 is 36mm IIRC; what is the R? Better design? I ask as bigger is not always better until the Engine catches up with velocity at WOT.

You lost me on that one.

PS - Glad you're still stopping by! :thumbup:

 

[Marthy]

?? What? FZ6R throttle body->> on FZ6? Is that what your saying? The 6 is 36mm IIRC; what is the R? Better design? I ask as bigger is not always better until the Engine catches up with velocity at WOT.

You lost me on that one.

PS - Glad you're still stopping by! :thumbup:

The 6R has 32mm TB. The increase in air velocity should give you a fair amount of punch in the mid range... sort of around 4K RPM up. Both engine are similar and I don't have any issue spinning 12500 RPM. On my set up with FZ6 cams I was peaking HP at 10200 instead of 9K stock.

Here you go... cheap R&D! LOL The FZ6 TB fit the 6R but I never used it... ending up trading them in for some goodies.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Yamaha...s&fits=Model:FZ6R&hash=item2a23f80ee9&vxp=mtr

 

[FinalImpact]

The 6R has 32mm TB. The increase in air velocity should give you a fair amount of punch in the mid range... sort of around 4K RPM up. Both engine are similar and I don't have any issue spinning 12500 RPM. On my set up with FZ6 cams I was peaking HP at 10200 instead of 9K stock.

Here you go... cheap R&D! LOL The FZ6 TB fit the 6R but I never used it... ending up trading them in for some goodies.
2009 Yamaha FZ6 R Throttle Bodies 2L6A0024 0009 | eBay

But I like the sound just before the rev limiter kicks in!
And yes, that is CHEAP!

PM coming your way....

 

[Marthy]

But I like the sound just before the rev limiter kicks in!
And yes, that is CHEAP!

PM coming your way....

It will still spin 14K, might not be as peaky HP.

 

[FinalImpact]

Other differences from FZ to R6, aside from intake TB being bigger, Exhaust headers being bigger, extra fueling (injectors), Coil On Plug per cylinder, is the compression ratio. The FSM lists the chamber volume for both. It says nothing about the crown volume of the piston or head gasket thickness.
- Its all adding up to more powers....

Compression Ratio:
FZ6 12.2:1
Volume 10.33–10.93 cm³ (0.63–0.67 cu.in), (11 cc)

R6 12.8:1
Volume 10.33–10.93 cm³ (0.63–0.67 cu.in) (8.19 cc)

Later went to 13.1:1

((MORE INFO PASTE))
A slightly more convex piston crown increases compression from 12.8:1 to 13.1:1. The titanium valves and camshaft profiles are all unchanged, but the exhaust timing has been advanced by one degree. New valve springs are made from an improved alloy but have the same rate as before, the connecting rod bearings are 1mm wider and made from a different material, and the main bearings are also a different material and have an increased oil supply. In all, more than 50 detail changes inside the engine were made to reduce friction. While the ramp-style slipper clutch is identical to the previous version, engine braking has been reduced by using the YCC-T to hold the throttle butterflies open slightly on deceleration.
Yamaha YZF R6 Engine Updates


Read more: Yamaha YZF R6 Engine Updates Photo 10

=================================
FZ6 all Years
INTAKE: 5VX-12170-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 1
I&E @ 1mm lift as measured by Marthy
Intake Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
IVO: 45° BTDC (6 @ 1mm)
IVC: 78° ABDC (35 @ 1mm)
ILC: 106.5° // @1mm = ILC: 104.5° so some discrepancy
Duration: 303°

EXHAUST: 5VX-12180-00-00 CAMSHAFT ASSY 2
Exhaust Lift: 7.5mm (0.295 in)
EVO: 60° BBDC (40 @ 1mm)
EVC: 27° ATDC (5 @ 1mm)
ELC: 106.5°
Duration: 267°

I&E Overlap of 72°

=================================
2007 R6
Intake:
Lift: 8.33mm (0.327 in)
IVO: 39°BTDC
IVC: 65°ABDC
ILC: 103° ATDC
Duration: 284.00°

Exhaust:
Lift: 7.48mm (0.294 in)
EVO: 63°
EVC: 25°
ELC: 109°BTDC
Duration: 268.00°
Installed Centerline: 109° BTDC

I&E Overlap: 64.00°

=================================
The FZ Intake has more duration 303° vs R6 @ 284° (think fill the cylinder at low RPM), but brings overlap into the event.

FZ cams also have more overlap @ 72° vs R6 @ 64° (Who knew!) In short, if the FZ Intake cam is advanced to a safe point that doesn't make piston contact, its added duration could bring more fill time and reduce overlap so it may be the winner. IDK for certain.

Condense from this thread! http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-technical/36860-camshaft-profile-anyone-know-specs-2.html using this calc: Camshaft Calculator - Wallace Racing

=================================
JJD952 Cam Timing

 

[FinalImpact]

So does that RING go 360 degrees? Is there anything in it like a magnet, a hole, a cut out?

R6S exhaust cam sensor is not 360 degrees as seen in the fresh photo that i took a couple of minutes ago.

But R6S cam is about 950gr including gear.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! That is what I wanted to to know and SEE!

I appreciate that Very Much! Rep point sent your way Fazil! :thumbup::thumbup:


TAG: R6S Exhaust Camsahft

 

[FinalImpact]

[MENTION=16666]Marthy[/MENTION]
How in the heck did you get anything in there to measure lift from the valve spring retainer?

As i see it, I need something with a huge dog leg to form around the CAM as I couldn't get my d/i on it to measure the timing events. I tried several different angles finally just through the cover on it and called it done.

Looking back all i need is wire welded to one of the screw in tips. That wasn't an option at the time of the valve check tho. I'm going to try and find something to screw into the tool. Roughly it took 45" to get in there to check the valves but I was cleaning and inspecting along the way.

I did find it interesting that the valves with excessive clearance had a circle on the bucket. Seemed kinda strange (o/t in this thread)...
I know I could measure on the exposed lobes directly but I doubt I'd get the same results.

Like so:

Exhaust cam out for shim adjustment:

 

[Marthy]

Ya I agree, PITA! I used a tig rod has an extension, cheap and work well. If you look at the pic I use a little tube to bolt where the valve cover bolt goes and hook thr the dial there. Intake and exhaut valves have a bit of a different setup to work but Im sure you can figure it out.

Has far as the dial wheel I weld a fender washer to a 12mm socket and rivet the wheel to it. I used a 12 point socket and split it then drill a hole through & bolt to make it pinched on the both. I can just use a normal 3/8" drive ratchet to spin it. CW only... other way aroumd put excessive load on the CCT... and they are $75.00, don't ask why I know...

 

[0l0dom0l0]

So what's the conclusion on this then?

Do the R6 cams slot into the FZ6 head, without any other changes, without causing any problems and do you gain from doing so?

I'm really confused with reading all this.

The FZ6 uses the same exhaust springs as the 5SL R6, which in turn uses the same exhaust springs as the 98-02 R6.

However, on the intake side, the 5SL R6 has more lift than the FZ6 and uses different intake springs with the part number starting 5SL. The FZ6 uses the same intake springs as the 98-02 R6.

I guess the question is does the R6 use different intake springs because the FZ6 ones coil bind with the extra lift, or is it to cope with the higher lift at post 14k RPM

If the springs don't coil bind, I don't expect there will be any valve float issues with a stock FZ6 redline.

 

[lrojasma]

That ring is for the cylinder identification sensor. It tells the ECU when the cam is in position for TDC for either the combustion stoke or the exhaust stroke of cylinder #1. The FZ6 doesn't need that sensor as it simply fires the spark plugs and triggers the fuel injectors for 1-4 and 2-3 every 180°

Are you sure on your assesment?

Because that ring doesnt go to a TDC sensor, it's a speed sensor, a hall effect sensor that tell the ECU the exhaust cam SPEED not the position.

And... it wouldnt have any sense it to be a TDC sensor as the bike still has a CPK sensor that senses the crank position that is still connected to the cams.

I dont really know why the R6 ecu needs to know the exhaust cam speed, but i think that is the way it is.