Cams, tciking noise and maintenance

[xjokux]

Just few questions.

Firstly, I have scorpion exhaust installed with k&n filter. Since I've bought the bike it always sound lumpy in idle like if it has cams but from what I know it doesn't?

Do these bike just sound like that?

I'm glad to upload a video of it, if needed

Second, I have ticking noises occasionally. I've been told its lifter but the previous owner said he got them change. I've also been told they don't have lifters lol and been told its the valves.

I'm slowing getting into bike mechanical, how hard is it to do a major DIY service? Or is it better to bring it to a bike shop. I do major modifications/service to my car so I have the tools.

 

[Circle]

Gday X,
The ticking noise? Well, I guess each bike has its own 'character' and this is one of those. I've got the '04 and I get a little ticking around 4,000rpm. It gets softer with better oil (I've tried Motul 7100 and it lessens the noise, and a better/smoother shift).
However this might be less/non existent on the later models (Feel free to chime in here peoples!)
Cheers!

 

[greg]

could try syncing the throttle bodies, and if it's over 25,000 miles then it might be worth checking the valve clearences. Also check the cam chain adjuster is ok

 

[Nelly]

Just few questions.

Firstly, I have scorpion exhaust installed with k&n filter. Since I've bought the bike it always sound lumpy in idle like if it has cams but from what I know it doesn't?

Do these bike just sound like that?

I'm glad to upload a video of it, if needed

Second, I have ticking noises occasionally. I've been told its lifter but the previous owner said he got them change. I've also been told they don't have lifters lol and been told its the valves.

I'm slowing getting into bike mechanical, how hard is it to do a major DIY service? Or is it better to bring it to a bike shop. I do major modifications/service to my car so I have the tools.

Use the search mate,
Ticking has been investigated to a near death.
The two main schools of thought are:
1. Cam chain tensioner ( resolves issues for some when switched out to a manual unit)
2. Injector noise.

My 05 ticks from 3500 - 4500 is. I had the tensioner changed with no difference to the ticking.
Yamaha UK also investigated the noise and identified it was coming from the injectors.
The good news is, the engines are pretty bullet proof. To my memory there have only been a few engine failures.

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Just few questions.

Firstly, I have scorpion exhaust installed with k&n filter. Since I've bought the bike it always sound lumpy in idle like if it has cams but from what I know it doesn't?

Do these bike just sound like that?

I'm glad to upload a video of it, if needed

Second, I have ticking noises occasionally. I've been told its lifter but the previous owner said he got them change. I've also been told they don't have lifters lol and been told its the valves.

I'm slowing getting into bike mechanical, how hard is it to do a major DIY service? Or is it better to bring it to a bike shop. I do major modifications/service to my car so I have the tools.

I have Scorps on my 07, stock air filter and have the idle set at 1000, not 1300 (per specs). Idles dead smooth, 10,000 miles.

Sounds like the previous owner was feeding you a bunch of BS when you bought the bike. The valves are solid lift adjust with shims (shim and bucket). Once the valve cover is off, you can check clearances once the cams/crank are set correctly. Valves will usually tighten up (not tick) with wear but as stated above should be checked at 25,000 miles. Most FZ's don't need adjustment unless its been beaten on alot.

+1 on the throttle sync for the lumpy idle, especially if it hasn't been done. Its pretty easy to do but your need a 4 line manometer. I adjust mine at 1200 RPM and again recheck/adjust at 4,000 RPM (as I had a serious buzz at 4k). Checking/adjusting at both RPM's got rid of 80% of the buzz and its well within spec...

If you can do major service to your car, you can work on the FZ, just a bit tighter. I have an 07 thru 09 Yamaha shop manual as a PDF file should you need it, PM with an e-mail address if needed..

BTW, whats the mileage, did the PO provide any maintainance records?

 

[Powerman]

My Dad used to say "when it stops ticking, it's time to worry". He defused bombs.

 

[Humperdinkel]

My 05 model idled a little erratic after the Microns were installed , no biggy & didnt bother it :thumbup:

The ticking noise well , im willing to bet its the trademark Yamaha timing chain No worries at all there :thumbup:

 

[xjokux]

Do you mean solid lifters as in adjustable ones?

I take its either them or the cam chain. It had a major before I bought the bike.

The bike idles at 1200-1300. So I'm guessing it's that, I wasn't complaining just curious.

I was gonna do tension the chain then. Major servicing cost a fair bit.

The ticking comes and goes. No real pattern when it happens haha

 

[Kaisersoze]

I spent countless hours and a couple hundred bucks diagnosing a loud ticking noise that was a simple problem. :BLAA:

Turns out the automatic cam chain tensioner had a small piece in it that rattled. If you remove it and shake it back and forth you can hear the tick, obviously slower than when the engine is vibrating at 1200 to 6000rpms. I installed a manual cam chain tensioner and problem solved. :thumbup:

Now I hear a slight and very normal tick from injectors/valves but no metallic rattling that was very alarming.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Do you mean solid lifters as in adjustable ones?

I take its either them or the cam chain. It had a major before I bought the bike.

The bike idles at 1200-1300. So I'm guessing it's that, I wasn't complaining just curious.

I was gonna do tension the chain then. Major servicing cost a fair bit.

The ticking comes and goes. No real pattern when it happens haha

The "lifters" are solid and are adjusted by swapping out thicker or thinner, small flat, round shims to them back into spec. To check does NOT REQUIRE the cams to be removed but the valve cover. A simple flat feeler gauge works fine, slip it inbetween and check the clearance for each valve.

To adjust them, you have to document which one needs to get tighter or looser and then remove the cam(s). Swap the already installed shim with a thicker or thinner shim to get the correct clearances. Re-install the cam(s) re-timing them to each other and the crankshaft...

 

[SovietRobot]

The lumpy idle can be caused by many things, but mine was caused by a faulty cam chain tensioner. I installed a manual one and the idle is nearly dead set now.

 

[FinalImpact]

The lumpy idle can be caused by many things, but mine was caused by a faulty cam chain tensioner. I installed a manual one and the idle is nearly dead set now.

A/F ratio can easily impact the idle and make it lope. Because it has aftermarket cans, I'd disconnect the battery for 5 minutes (re-connect), verify air filter is healthy and clean, ride it for 30 miles and then sync the the TB's.

A dose of fuel system cleaner may not be out of the question either. If you do this, run it through before sync and all that up there. ^

Just my 2cents; these engines have no sound deadening barriers built in to them, they make noise - lots of it. To the extent that injector tick can be heard, good luck as the other thrashing sounds usually overcome it. . .

 

[Blakester122]

Well this makes me feel a little better about the ticking. Mine also has no pattern and comes and goes. I guess I'll look into getting a manual cam chain tensioner. How often should it be checked after it is installed?

 

[iSteve]

I don't see how a manual cam tensioner can stop a lumpy idle. The number of links between the sprockets will always be the same.

Motorcycle engines make a lot of noise. We have gears spinning, cam and oil pump chains, fuel injector noise, crank pistons valves moving. All this mounted to a ridged frame that helps amplify the sounds. Not sure a little noise should make anyone go back to the 1950's and use a manual tensioner. If the stock one did fail maybe just replace it with a new one.

 

[FinalImpact]

I don't see how a manual cam tensioner can stop a lumpy idle. The number of links between the sprockets will always be the same.

Motorcycle engines make a lot of noise. We have gears spinning, cam and oil pump chains, fuel injector noise, crank pistons valves moving. All this mounted to a ridged frame that helps amplify the sounds. Not sure a little noise should make anyone go back to the 1950's and use a manual tensioner. If the stock one did fail maybe just replace it with a new one.

Its usually a combo effort, but the bottom line is chains are meant to be pulled, and a rough idle from a poor tune will exaggerate an improperly tensioned chain at idle making both issues more noticeable (engine noise and idle quality).
However, A good tune; i.e. clean air filter, good gas quality, fresh plugs, balance/sync, timing checked/set will all help hide a loose or faulty chain tensioner.

If the crank held 100% fixed velocity neither accelerating or decelerating at idle your right, it wouldn't matter. But it doesn't. Every firing stoke is not perfectly balanced as one would hope. I would think the cross plain crank engines do a better job but they too are effected by the state of tune.

Personally I'd expect an auto adjuster to make the chain last longer as it does stretch under max acceleration of crankshafts increase in velocity. That's where the fixed tensioner isn't quite as effective. But defective is defective. Worn or defective tensioners should be replaced.

 

[SovietRobot]

The problem with a faulty cam chain tensioner is that it might hold the chain tight under throttle, but off throttle it will allow slack which can produce the lumpy effect.

I'm not saying a manual one is better than a WORKING automatic one.

FinalImpact is right about tune and A/F ratio, but disconnecting the the battery on a 2004-2006 FZ6 will do nothing for this because our bikes don't have an O2 sensor and the A/F settings are set.

 

[vinmansbrew]

Nice that I saw this. I don't feel I have a lumpy exhaust. No, my issue was a ticking at about 3500 - 4000 rpm or so, on up till things get loud enough that I can't hear it anymore.

Engine runs well, though starting takes about 1.5 - 2 seconds. My Cb has me spoiled as it fires virtually as soon as I hit the starter.

Anyways, the dealer I got it from, with 2800 on the clock, used a suzuki oil of proper weight but it seems a little thin to me. So I think some rotella 5-40 is in order.

Otherwise, it seems that the cam chain tension units are a bit weak on these bikes. Is this something I might want to watch? Are there other symptoms I should look for?

 

[PhotoAl]

Checked the valve clearance a few weeks back then changed the oil about a week later. Bike has 31,000 miles on it. Have always used Rotella T synthetic oil but changed to Red Line 10W-40 at the last change. Changed the timing chain tensioner at about 9,500 miles cause of ticking. Have been noticing more ticking recently. Yesterday washed the bike and cleaned the chain (DID with 2k miles on it). Went out for a ride to warm the chain up. When first cranked was very quite but when I rode to the top of my drive (50 feet) it developed a very noticible ticking noise different from the injectors and valves. Rode easy for a while and it went away as the bike warmed up. Pulled the timing chain tensioner anc compared it with the one I replaced at 9,500 miles. They are a screw with a spring wound around the outside for tension. To retract you turn the screw with a small screwdriver via a hole in the top. The current tensioner had a rougher operation than the original one. I Put some Primus Lube Gel on the original one and that seemed to make a good bit of difference.

After worrying about what the Primus Lube Gel would do to my motor, I dumped a pretty god bit of left over Rotella T in it and worked it some more. Installed it - noise gone!!!! Remember this is the original one which I pulled at 9,500 miles. Will order a new one soon and replace when it arrives.

Have to wonder about maybe pulling the screw cap off every so often and putting some oil in it. It appears to be lubricated by oil which drips down into a slot in the housing which cannot be very much. Maybe it just needs a little more lubrication.

Edit: DO NOT believe this problem has anything to do with changing to Red Line oil - have been very happy and will continue to use it.