BIKE SEIZED 850 miles

[sportrider]

Geez...well now that we're down to the gritty details, I sometimes think its the oil I used in the bike. I used the Rotella synthetic and I was just told that synthetic shouldnt be used for at least 4000 miles. I wonder if that would have something to do with it....YIKES! This is beginning to look worse and worse.....

the initial brake in period is the time when all the hard parts in the motor are getting polished, the purpose of fluctuating RPMs is to keep any one part from overheating or scoring. I've heard that by changing to a full synthetic oil you can actually slow down the break in process. but I sincerely doubt that this had any effect on your break down. If your motor did have a major catastrophic breakdown I would lean more to a defective part then anything your oil change did.

 

[OneTrack]

I'm certain that doing the 600 miles service doesn't void your wannenty. Just show the receipts for the oil and filter and you should be fine.

No, it cannot void the warranty, but it is one less hassle in situations like this if the dealer does the "all important" first service. If the dealership can prove oil starvation (for whatever reason...blockage, lack of oil, etc that is not a "defect") it could certainly give them grounds to attempt to refuse warranty.
In the same situation (for our car customers) I will always ask for receipts for all their "self-service" maintenance. If all the receipts are there and the services were performed according the the Owner's Maintenance Schedule, then there is usually no reason to deny warranty coverage.

 

[jfreakman]

Geez...well now that we're down to the gritty details, I sometimes think its the oil I used in the bike. I used the Rotella synthetic and I was just told that synthetic shouldnt be used for at least 4000 miles. I wonder if that would have something to do with it....YIKES! This is beginning to look worse and worse.....

This would have absolutely nothing to do with it. There are many users on this board and across the world who switched their oil at 50-100 miles to full syn without any trouble and have many 1000's of miles on their bikes. Many cars now come straight from the factory with full syn oil with absolutely no problems. I don't know who told you that you couldn't use synthetic oils until 4000 miles, but they are dead wrong.

If anything, I think that our bikes should have a much shorter break-in period. 600 miles is way too long, imho, because it's really in the first 100 miles on the bike that the engine forms.

It's not the syn oil thats the problem, unless you either put in WAY too much or not enough...or you had a leak. That would cause a problem, for sure. But I don't think that's the case in this situation.

 

[OneTrack]

Geez...well now that we're down to the gritty details, I sometimes think its the oil I used in the bike. I used the Rotella synthetic and I was just told that synthetic shouldnt be used for at least 4000 miles. I wonder if that would have something to do with it....YIKES! This is beginning to look worse and worse.....

Again (just going on my own experience when dealing with this same type of situation), the type/brand of engine oil put into the engine will rarely cause a catastrophic failure. It can hasten wear on (random example here)...boxer engines , but will not cause them to seize/blow up unless the engine leaks/burns oil. It has been a problem for our turbo-charged engines, which can have less than 2 liters of oil left in the crankcase after 6,000 km's if the incorrect viscosity oil is used.
If you're sure that you put the correct quantity of oil into your engine, then you should be just fine. Using non-OEM filters can also be a point of argument for a manufacturer in a failure of this sort.
Good luck!

 

[jfreakman]

onetrack, that's a good point. if you really go 4000 miles between oil changes like the manual says, then you really need to keep an eye on oil level, especially if you are like me and use 15-50w. Of course, I tend to change my oil every 1000 miles or so, so it's not really a problem...

of course, Roboco, since you had just changed your oil roughly 250 miles ago, you should have been fine on this point.

 

[wrightme43]

Geez...well now that we're down to the gritty details, I sometimes think its the oil I used in the bike. I used the Rotella synthetic and I was just told that synthetic shouldnt be used for at least 4000 miles. I wonder if that would have something to do with it....YIKES! This is beginning to look worse and worse.....

NO way possible that synthetic oil caused your failure.
Anyone who told you synth cant be used before 4000 miles is full of crap.

Tell Porche, Corvette, Mercury Marine, oh and while they are at tell them to come tell my engine to blow up too. I went to synth at 250 miles and should of done it at 100 miles.

Not possible and if anyone says it is, they are wrong and have been proven wrong by many many many many engines.

 

[Roboco]

Well I was waiting for my ride on the side of the highway, I took put the bike on the center stand and checked the oil 2-3 times knowing that's what they would check first. The oil level was perfect. I also yanked out my wire that was running the headlight mod. The splice area on the wire was done with bullet connectors so I put the connector back to the way it originally was and wrapped it just like the factory had it. I just didnt want them to have any reason to void the warranty. Thanks for everyones input and I will post as soon as I hear something from the dealer. By the way, it was the service guy at the dealer that said the bike should have 4000 miles on it before synthetic is used.

 

[OneTrack]

You're on pretty firm ground, mate....don't worry about it. I'm sure that Yamaha will take care of your bike. That's what warranty coverage is for.
You say that the valves were bent, which means that they contacted the pistons.....sounds to me like the camshaft drive chain or sprocket may have failed.
Let us know how this one pans out.

 

[jimcisme]

You're on pretty firm ground, mate....don't worry about it. I'm sure that Yamaha will take care of your bike. That's what warranty coverage is for.
You say that the valves were bent, which means that they contacted the pistons.....sounds to me like the camshaft drive chain or sprocket may have failed.
Let us know how this one pans out.

I agree, this sounds like mechanical failure, not lack of oil. BUT! The tellins in the tearin down! Lack of oil pressure could cause valve train problems, since the cam chain tensioner is operated by oil, but I doubt this on a bike with so few miles on it, I don’t think there would be that much slack in the chain. You would think that a lack of oil pressure would have made the engine get noisy before it would seize. And even then, why would it drop a valve? Maybe spin a main or rod bearing or score a piston, then seize. And with any of these, first noise, then a lack of power, then seizure.((And don't forget the oil light!) (scratch this, owners manual clearly states its an oil LEVEL warning light, not a pressure indicator.))
ALL of this is speculation, and that and a $1.25 will get you coffee! Wait for them to tear it down, then, if they give you any guff, ask look at the parts. They will speak for them self’s.

Read the last post in this thread.
Welcome to the Shell Rotella Forum: Oil Related Failure

 

[Roboco]

Ok. I spoke with Yamaha Customer Relations yesterday and the gentleman seemed more than willing to help. He called the dealer on his other line and put me on hold. He came back on the line and told me: "They're still ripping the bike apart but these are going to be the options. If the engine failure is perceived as a manufacturer flaw Yamaha will replace all the parts necessary to get the bike back together. If it proves to be rider error, Yamaha will try to help absorb some of the cost for the parts". I wasn't satisfied with the answer so I told him it's a brand new bike and I wont be satisfied getting the bike back with a rebuilt engine. I asked if they could replace the engine and he said probably not.
As the conversation went on I mentioned my concern of being "left in the dark" about the status of the bike. The representitive said he will call me everyday with an update (including yesterday). So, go figure, haven't heard from Yamaha or the dealer since.

 

[wrightme43]

Engines are engines, if they remove and replace the broken parts, its just like having a new engine. They are basicly just a air pump.
People will tell you what ever to get off the phone.
Just call them back.

I went thru hell getting my camera replaced with sony. I had to send it back for the same thing 4 times.

 

[OneTrack]

Speaking as a guy who is on the factory end of the phone quite a bit, it sounds like the Yamaha rep is being quite honest and fair with you by offering to absorb the cost of the parts even if it proves to be "rider error". Be sure to make notes when speaking with the rep, that's VERY important. Whatever you do, DON'T threaten unless you get a very clear NO from both Yamaha and the dealer. Once you threaten (tell all my friends not to buy Yamahas, go to the press, etc, etc.) you've played your last card and Yamaha has nothing to lose by digging in their heels and going to the wall with you.
If it's found to be a factory defect that caused the failure (which I'm sure will be the decision ), then you're home and dry. Don't worry about them rebuilding your motor with new parts...that's as good as it gets with most manufacturers these days. It'll be as good as new...well, better than good as new in your case.

 

[pedwards89]

Having spent the money you have on a new bike & only 850 miles on the clock, I'd be looking for a new factory motor.

What are you doing for transport meantime? Have they supplied you with a loner?

I wouldn't take any more c**p. Write a letter to the Dealer* & copy it to your Yamaha rep & the highest ranking Yamaha official** you can find in the US. Don't rant & rave, just the facts & your expectations of Yamaha i.e. new engine / new bike, whatever (as long as it is reasonable). I agree with the don't threaten philosophy, in fact, big up the bike & yamaha, tell them what a great bike the FZ6 is, how you loved riding it, how bad you're missing it.

* I'm guessing that in the US the contract you have is with the retailer not the manufacturer / importer.

** The higher up the Yamaha organisational chain the better, CEO if possible. Ring Yamaha America & ask who the boss is & what is his postal address.

Do you have registered post over there? Where someone has to sign for the receipt of a letter, so that you have proof of delivery? If so, use that to all parties.

Oh Yeah, good luck. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Roboco]

No, no loner was even offered. Fortunately I have acar to use temporarily. If I dont hear anything by the end of the week I will consider the letter routine.

 

[Roboco]

Pictures of the damage

These pictures aren't super clear as they were taken with my phone.

This is the poor bike at the shop...Remember...850 miles....

This is the "guts" of the engine. Leaning on the end is the damaged piston. You can see where the valve embedded itself into the top of it.

This is a closer shot of the piston. All of the other pistons are fine. Sorry about the clarity.

Picture of the shaft for those who haven't seen what it looks like for the FZ6.
The parts were ordered for the bike: New head, pistons, rings, crank case, lots of accessories coming to $4000. The labor will be $2000 and Yamaha will be paying (as far as I know). It will be another 3 weeks before it's fixed as some of the parts have to be shipped from Japan.

 

[Roboco]

One more picture. This is the underside where you can see the valves. Its hard to see but you can see the damaged area. One of the exhaust valves is actually turned sideways. The Tech said all of this was caused by a small spring and metal washer that were not seated properly at the factory!! Why me!!??

 

[elwood206]

ouch, you get to keep the piston as a souvenir?

 

[mikebike]

I am sure they will wna that ........

also ....those photos are excellent for being phone photos

they make the piston look big...

what is the approx diameter in inches of our pistons....

 

[wrightme43]

Dang it man.
You will have a new engine.

At least you know what it is now.

 

[sportrider]

wow. crazy to think the frame,suspension,wheels and tires and body only cost $2799.00 . thats why I think Yamaha will be adjusting my valves. to think I was crying about not being able to ride mine for 2 days!!!
looks like you get to start the break in process all over again. thats what I call a first service!!! slip the mechanic a $20 and have him put an R6 engine in it by mistake. sorry about all the one liners but this post just has them flowing out of me!!!

at least it won't cost you any money!!! I'd hit up the dealer for a free T-shirt!!!:thumbup: