Bike not running right

[Grouse]

OK thanks in advance for any help with this as it's got me beat.

My bike had not been used for 2 weeks due to flat tyre and work commitments, so today I decided to have a ride.
The first thing I noticed was that the cold idle was just over 2k which is a little fast. After it has warmed up a bit idle dropped to about 1200, it only returned to the normal after I blipped the throttle.
As this was the first ride since replacing the front wheel I pumped front brake a few times an push on the handle bars I noticed the engine revs dropped every time the front end dipped.
I decided to try a little ride get it all up to temp and hopped it would go away, it didn't. The bike will stall if I break with the clutch pulled in or if I just rock the bike on the front break 4 or 5 times. It is also lumpy if I try to hold it under 4k in low gears but is not as noticeable in higher gears.

Thanks for looking and any help.
Grouse

 

[ChevyFazer]

For one thing your idle seems a bit low, try adjusting it to 1600-1800. That could be what is causing it to die when the clutch is disengaged. And 2000 for cold idle is completely normal, my bike can go as high as 3k when cold. But what exactly do you mean when you rock the front end?

 

[Grouse]

For one thing your idle seems a bit low, try adjusting it to 1600-1800. That could be what is causing it to die when the clutch is disengaged. And 2000 for cold idle is completely normal, my bike can go as high as 3k when cold. But what exactly do you mean when you rock the front end?

This is defiantly not the norm for my bike. Cold idle 1500ish warm 900ish no matter what the weather for the last 10k+ miles I have had the bike.
As for rock the front end, I mean while sitting on the bike hold the front break and push forward and down as herd as you can on the bars.

My fist thought was water in the tank but that would not explain the high (for me) cold idle. It is as if engine id starved of flue when the bike is tipped froward ie breaking . Also woth to mention flue tank is 3/4+ full.

Grouse

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

OK thanks in advance for any help with this as it's got me beat.

My bike had not been used for 2 weeks due to flat tyre and work commitments, so today I decided to have a ride.
The first thing I noticed was that the cold idle was just over 2k which is a little fast. After it has warmed up a bit idle dropped to about 1200, it only returned to the normal after I blipped the throttle.
As this was the first ride since replacing the front wheel I pumped front brake a few times an push on the handle bars I noticed the engine revs dropped every time the front end dipped.
I decided to try a little ride get it all up to temp and hopped it would go away, it didn't. The bike will stall if I break with the clutch pulled in or if I just rock the bike on the front break 4 or 5 times. It is also lumpy if I try to hold it under 4k in low gears but is not as noticeable in higher gears.

Thanks for looking and any help.
Grouse

The changing of the engine speed when pushing on the forks sounds like a throttle cable binding up somewhere. Do you have enough play in the throttle or is it very taught??? You should be able to turn the wheel in both directions and the cable still HAVE THE SAME SLACK...

Yamaha calls for hot idle to be about 1300, I wouldn't go anything higher than that. 1800 plus is way too high... I actually have mine set at 1000 hot and its rock steady... (900 is too low, bring it up some)

As for the stalling, is the bike left outside where moisture can collect in the fuel tank, how old is the fuel? If the fuel is fairly fresh some Chevron Techtron will help clean the fuel system. It's good maintainace in any case... If the fuel is old and not stabilized, it'll go bad and cause havoc... I'd pull the tank and dump it ALL OUT..


Re-setting the ECU by disconnecting the battery may help, doesn't cost anything but some time. Just keep the battery disconnected for 15 minutes or so...

If it hasn't had a throttle sync in awhile, (if ever), it'll help. Yamaha spec's call for no more than 10mm difference between the cylinders, I was able to get all mine within 2mm's so if you can do it yourself, you'll probably get better results than a Yamaha mechanic possibly stopping within 10mm....

Any other work done to the bike by you or someone else??? Seemingly inconsequential, anything?

 

[Grouse]

Thanks Townsends for the advice just been out to the bike, throttle cable is ok. Fuel is only 2 weeks old filled up day before flat tyre.
Just started bike on the full stand and let it idle for a while revs dropped to 900+ so I adjusted up to about 1100 and it was rock steady. So I tried rocking the bike on the full stand and nothing happened rpm still at 1100. Kicked back wheel as you do and the revs dipped then returned to 1100.

I now turn the rear wheel slowly by hand and every few degrees of rotation the revs dip. If I move the rear wheel past one of these points up and down quickly bike almost stalls.
Now put bike in 1st while on full stand and in idle chain will buck and engine is very lumpy. Chain tension is fine about 2 inch of slack.
Is there some sort of position sensor on the out put crank?

The only other things to happen to the bike since it was running right is I lubed the chain while waiting for recovery truck and the bike being loaded on to said flat bed and secured veer front wheel clamp and straps.
Just waiting for the sun to move round to the front of the house then I will go and disconnect the battery for 1/2 hour or so . Thanks for the help

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Thanks Townsends for the advice just been out to the bike, throttle cable is ok. Fuel is only 2 weeks old filled up day before flat tyre.
Just started bike on the full stand and let it idle for a while revs dropped to 900+ so I adjusted up to about 1100 and it was rock steady. So I tried rocking the bike on the full stand and nothing happened rpm still at 1100. Kicked back wheel as you do and the revs dipped then returned to 1100.

I now turn the rear wheel slowly by hand and every few degrees of rotation the revs dip. If I move the rear wheel past one of these points up and down quickly bike almost stalls.
Now put bike in 1st while on full stand and in idle chain will buck and engine is very lumpy. Chain tension is fine about 2 inch of slack.
Is there some sort of position sensor on the out put crank?

The only other things to happen to the bike since it was running right is I lubed the chain while waiting for recovery truck and the bike being loaded on to said flat bed and secured veer front wheel clamp and straps.
Just waiting for the sun to move round to the front of the house then I will go and disconnect the battery for 1/2 hour or so . Thanks for the help

Rotating the rear wheel shouldn't affect anything. There is a speedometer pick up sensor located at the rear of the engine, that would monitor a transmission shaft movement and relay that data for the speedometer.

I would be looking real close at where he tied the bike down at. He may have in advertantly piched/shorted something.. I suspect the irratic idle while moving the rear wheel is just a coincidence.. Moving the rear wheel in neutral wouldn't/shouldn't have anything to do with the engine running.

As a side note, the kill switch on the handlebars is a known weak point and does fail. Try moving/playing with that and see if it alone does anything unusual. It may be turning off momentarily/have a bad contact causing the bike to shut down for a split second...

Do you know when the throttle bodies were last synced?

 

[Grouse]

Hmm reset ecu no difference I am going to get a video so you can see what I mean about rear wheel movement.
I watch him closely when he loaded and unloaded the bike. The only straps on the bike went round the top of the front suspension legs over side of fearing and also through rear foot rest supports.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

If you can point to, in your video, where exactly he ran the straps, it may help. I'll look at my bike and see if there's any wires hidden where he straped down at or you could look at yours...

Your symptoms are very odd....

 

[Grouse]

I had a good look he went under every wire as I can see polished points where the straps went the only wire he had to move than just a fraction of an inch is the horn wire.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC8YpF8nQfE]bike1 - YouTube[/ame]

Hopefully you will be able to hear the exhaust not change when the wheel is moved. Only the wheel moved the rest of the bike is completely still.

Thanks for your help with this.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I had a good look he went under every wire as I can see polished points where the straps went the only wire he had to move than just a fraction of an inch is the horn wire.
bike1 - YouTube

Hopefully you will be able to hear the exhaust not change when the wheel is moved. Only the wheel moved the rest of the bike is completely still.

Thanks for your help with this.

That is about the oddest thing I've heard/seen.... Your symptoms are as you described.

The only thing I can think of is the ECU is getting the signal from the pick up, sending it to the ECU and the ECU is malfunctioning or perhaps some corrosion where the ECU connects to the harness... You might try unplugging the main harness to the ECU and look there for any corrosion.

I'm not home now and don't have access to the shop manual. (I do have an 07-09 Yamaha shop manual I can e-mail later, just PM me with a regular e-mail address).


Motogiro is excellent with electrical problems, I'll PM him and see if he can chime in..

PM sent to Motogiro..

 

[Grouse]

Thank you very much. PM sent.
It is now going to be a few days before I get chance to look a much as it will be dark before I start and after I finish work and I do not have a garage.
All the help is very much appreciated

Grouse

 

[Motogiro]

I was involved in a thread a few years ago. When the rear wheel was turned the engine would miss. It would idle fine but any movement would cause the problem. I thought about there being cross talk between the TPS and speedo sigs and that's what it was. The guy was in the UK, it was winter and he had washed his bike.

The cure was to pull connectors apart and clean them out. I would suggest cold water rinsing, compressed air till perfectly dry and re-assembly of connector. Cold water is the best way to rinse salt contaminates.

If the bike has been wet recently and exposed to road salts this will exasperate this type of crosstalk in connectors. Salt is a great conductor especially with small signal.
Hope this helps!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I was involved in a thread a few years ago. When the rear wheel was turned the engine would miss. It would idle fine but any movement would cause the problem. I thought about there being cross talk between the TPS and speedo sigs and that's what it was. The guy was in the UK, it was winter and he had washed his bike.

The cure was to pull connectors apart and clean them out. I would suggest cold water rinsing, compressed air till perfectly dry and re-assembly of connector. Cold water is the best way to rinse salt contaminates.

If the bike has been wet recently and exposed to road salts this will exasperate this type of crosstalk in connectors. Salt is a great conductor especially with small signal.
Hope this helps!

Thanks Cliff, looks like you hit the nail on the head... I love this forum!!

 

[Motogiro]

I can't count the times I've been educated by Scott and others on different issues on this forum and I agree! This Forum is great!:BLAA:

 

[ChevyFazer]

Wow.....talk about crazy stuff! But hey that's what makes this forum awesome, the combined experience from all the members, especially those who have had the same problems.

 

[SovietRobot]

I suggest buying a spray can of deoxit or any contact cleaner. It'll work better than water(which I don't trust for cleaning an electrical connector...but that's just me)

 

[Motogiro]

I suggest buying a spray can of deoxit or any contact cleaner. It'll work better than water(which I don't trust for cleaning an electrical connector...but that's just me)

With salt, get it off with cold water, compressed air and then you might treat it with another agent for further protection. I wouldn't even use wd40 if I suspect salt is involved. Salt and water have a very natural relationship in our world. Salt is much more soluble with water than anything in a spray can. If salt has entered a connector, rinsing it out with water and drying (compressed air) is probably the first and best step. If you use something that's an oil or petroleum base you have a better chance of sealing the salt in the connector.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

A little bit of di-lectric grease in a clean connector should help keep moisture/salt from collecting in the connector again as well.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I suggest buying a spray can of deoxit or any contact cleaner. It'll work better than water(which I don't trust for cleaning an electrical connector...but that's just me)

I've seen some electrical contact cleaner melt plastic so I would use it perhaps on the end of a Q-tip (ear cleaner). Water to flush maybe a blow anything left out with an air compressor..

My FJR when fairly new had the main connector (under the fuel tank) collect moisture and turn green causing odd running (it was a common problem with the first gen bikes). Once the problem was found (from an FJR forum, the dealer couldn't find it) I just scraped the corrosion off with a small screwdriver, blew any sediment out with the air compressor, and maybe some WD 40 or liquid wrench (don't remember). I added di-lectric grease to the connector after that, NO problems since...

ANY CONNECTOR I take apart, gets a little bit of di-lectic grease before reassembly...

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Double post..