Bike miss-firing, advice?

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Looks like you got it quite a bit closer.

Something that concerns me thou, the manometer doesn't have equal lenth hoses, the outside ones are longer than the inner ones.

IMHO, I would redo the lower manifold so you have absolutly equal lenths of hose. Also, do you have some sort of reducer at the ends of the hoses before they hook up to the engine? This is pretty important as it dampens and keeps the fluid from jumping about.

I'm fortunate enough to have a Carbtune, with marks, no fluids and no guessing. It has restrictors that you cut the hoses at an equal lenth, insert the restrictor and slip on the rest of the hose. The inside of the restrictor is EASILY 1/4-1/3 the diameter of a sewing needle, yes its that small to dampen the engine pulses.

 

[norcalwelder]

Hmm, I don't have equal hose lengths! They are all within an inch or so, but I thought that would be close enough. I didn't think it would make any difference...am I wrong? I have vacuum restrictions in the lines, probably about a #60 twist drill size? Pretty small.

 

[norcalwelder]

Here is a video. I will have a final one shortly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6vqmcx95klem7dr/Video%20Jul%2004%2C%202%2036%2011%20PM.mov

Fired it up a minute ago, no adjustments made. I blipped the throttle a few times, and this is what I got.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2s4o4o5y5qdcx3/Video%20Jul%2004%2C%203%2027%2033%20PM.mov

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

I don't know how far off they were before, but, I CAN'T RE-ITERATE ENOUGH, those hoses should be equal lenths and you also need a dampener in there.. When you rev it ALL the fluids should go up and down much more equally. Your #1, at least in the first video, zips way up there. Is it because of the meter, I suspect so...

Yes, what you have is better than nothing but spec's call for all the manometer to be within 10mms of each other.

Those ouside lines are way longer than 10mm's alone(13mm's is a half inch), plus with no restrictors (to help dampen the pulses) yes its fairly close on the board, but the board, manifold, hoses themselves are not terribly accurate.

I'd also suggest after each minor adjustment, a decent rev, maybe to 4-5k, then let the engine settle down. I'd also be curious what the levels are at say a steady 4,000 RPM.


Admittedly, I've never made my own manometer nor actually paid much attention to the design of making one, but comparing the two tools, there is no comparison, at least re accuracy.

I truly think, IMHO, beg, borrow or buy a tool you can trust and is VERY ACCURATE. I believe a good part of them don't even use fluids anymore. My Carbtune was $80 to my door from England. I believe their close to $100.00 now. Many guys use a Motion Pro. Yamaha charges at least $125 for one sync so it would pay for itself very quickly.

Besides having the bike running tip top, your mileage should improve, your not trying to fix something else that IS NOT BROKE (as the sync may be out beyond spec's). I can tell you, to the MM, what my sync is, and indeed that I KNOW, I'm well within spec's.

I wish you were closer, I'd like to put mine on there just for S&G's (and to adjust if need be)

Just an FYI, it was fellow FZ member bertrum who's bike I/we just synced last week. Please feel free to PM him and ask re the sync. He had never done one, nor seen one done but is pretty mechanically inclined and now knows pretty much how its done. His was not bad at all but he did post it indeed runs smoother and better...

 

[norcalwelder]

I found out we keep quite a supply of 7.48mm shims in stock so Monday night I am going to pull her down, measure, and pull the cams. That way I can bring new shims home from work on Tuesday, and put everything back together. It sounds like I will be able to borrow a master gauge set from work as well to put on the throttle body, should work alot better because I will have 4 individual gauges to adjust with. So hopefully Tuesday night I will be good to go! I love this bike so I want to make sure she is running as good as I can, you know? Once again Scott, thanks for the help! I will post back in this thread when I have everything back together.

 

[FinalImpact]

Gravity is constant regardless of the hose length, thus it does not matter. Its why water levels are so accurate. You could coil one hose into 29 loops it would read the same. Keep looking for the issue elsewhere....

 

[norcalwelder]

Gravity is constant regardless of the hose length, thus it does not matter. Its why water levels are so accurate. You could coil one hose into 29 loops it would read the same. Keep looking for the issue elsewhere....

Makes sense. I wasnt sure if having more fluid to lift because it was at an angle would matter or not. Either way I'm going to adjust the valves and use the shop's gauges so I can set the proper MAP or at least get close

 

[norcalwelder]

Well I didnt get to it until last night, but I remeasured and found 3 exhaust valves to be .03 to .05mm out of spec, and the intake valves to all be .18 to .20mm so they are all in spec. The rest of the exhaust valves are .28mm. My intake cam shaft is worn, but still has .003" left on the lobe before being out of the service limit.

 

[FinalImpact]

^^ out of spec as in LOOSE or tight? You say the cam lobe(s) are wearing so they must be loose then? Did you use a calibrated micrometer or some veneer calipers? The later of the two may not be too accurate.

Anyway, 0.05mm (0.0019") is a pretty small amount if loose. Likely not hurting anything but seeings how you're there, fix it. Although I doubt its enough to make a tick sound but it may help the vacuum a little.

 

[norcalwelder]

^^ out of spec as in LOOSE or tight? You say the cam lobe(s) are wearing so they must be loose then? Did you use a calibrated micrometer or some veneer calipers? The later of the two may not be too accurate.

Anyway, 0.05mm (0.0019") is a pretty small amount if loose. Likely not hurting anything but seeings how you're there, fix it. Although I doubt its enough to make a tick sound but it may help the vacuum a little.

Yes, all the valves are on the loose end of their tolerance. And I measured with a micrometer so its pretty accurate. I have the shims so I am going to get them all the same. s

 

[norcalwelder]

Initial impressions post valve adjustment.

I brought the valves that where out of spec into spec, but I did not tighten the rest of them up. I wanted to bring the intake valves from the loose end of their spec to the tighter end of their spec because this would bring the cam timing back in a little bit. However, it turned out to be more trouble then it was worth, so I got them all pretty much the same at the loose end of their tolerance, both intake and exhaust.

The huge :spank: moment of the night was when I found that little gas seeped out of the tank vent while it was off and removed a patch of paint from the underside of the tank!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! Man did I feel stupid about that...at least it wasn't on top of the tank where it can be seen though.

The master gauge set I brought home from work was useless as it was not accurate enough to fine tune the throttle bodies. When I hooked my homemade gauge up though, I was able to synch the TBs within a couple minutes. Very quick and smooth. I bottomed out the number one screw and opened it about 1.5 turns which helped alot.

Overall impressions are a smoother running bike, smoother idle, and a painful lesson about how important it is to plug ALL the holes in your tank when its off or drain it completely. Before this I had a harsh transition to the 5000-6000RPM vibes, and now they are almost all gone. I'm going to be riding from East Texas to Maryland next week so we'll see how she holds up.

I also spent alot of time torquing the cams in, I brought them up to half torque then full torque and used the manuals torque pattern. It took almost an hour but I felt like it would be worth the time.

 

[FinalImpact]

Initial impressions post valve adjustment.

I brought the valves that where out of spec into spec, but I did not tighten the rest of them up. I wanted to bring the intake valves from the loose end of their spec to the tighter end of their spec because this would bring the cam timing back in a little bit. However, it turned out to be more trouble then it was worth, so I got them all pretty much the same at the loose end of their tolerance, both intake and exhaust.

The huge :spank: moment of the night was when I found that little gas seeped out of the tank vent while it was off and removed a patch of paint from the underside of the tank!!!!!! DUH!!!!!! Man did I feel stupid about that...at least it wasn't on top of the tank where it can be seen though.

The master gauge set I brought home from work was useless as it was not accurate enough to fine tune the throttle bodies. When I hooked my homemade gauge up though, I was able to synch the TBs within a couple minutes. Very quick and smooth. I bottomed out the number one screw and opened it about 1.5 turns which helped alot.

Overall impressions are a smoother running bike, smoother idle, and a painful lesson about how important it is to plug ALL the holes in your tank when its off or drain it completely. Before this I had a harsh transition to the 5000-6000RPM vibes, and now they are almost all gone. I'm going to be riding from East Texas to Maryland next week so we'll see how she holds up.

I also spent alot of time torquing the cams in, I brought them up to half torque then full torque and used the manuals torque pattern. It took almost an hour but I felt like it would be worth the time.

Good Job!!!
Sorry about the pain loss, at least the fire dept wasn't involved!
So its well balanced at idle and 4k now? This made a noticeable difference! Very nice!

PS a little thanks for those supporting never hurst. just sayin... :thumbup:

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Glad to hear you got it back together and the results as well.

Your better off adjusting the valves to the loose side of spec's as they tighten up with age(a little noiseier but worth it).

Just a quick side note, you CAN leave the vent line on the tank when its tilted up, there's enough room for it. Just make sure the vent and over flow lines are back (and semi taught/straight-no kinks) once the tank is back down. :thumbup: