A legal nightmare in Oregon

[KensFz6]

I saw this story on Nightline last night and it's got me so mad that I couldn't stop thinking about it all night while I was at work.

Nightline - ABC News

A husband beats his wife in his sleep, she gets scared and confused and calls 911, he gets arrested and now is facing felony domestic battery charges even though the wife believes he's not to blame and is trying to get the charges dropped.

It baffles me how someone can be prosecuted against the wishes of the victim. The only reason that it's an issue is because of a mandatory domestic abuse law. It sounds to me that wife only called 911 because she was afraid not only for herself but for her husband as well but now that they are aware that he has a problem, the family is being forced to waste all their money on legal fees instead of using it on getting the husband the help he needs.

This case is a demonstration of the legal system punishing people for the sake of the law and not taking any time to make sure that they're acting in the best interests of the people involved. Sending this man to jail only serves to cause more harm to his family since he'll probably lose his job, bankrupt his family with fines and be branded a felon which will prevent him from getting a new job when he's released.

I usually don't watch the news much or pay too much attention when I do but something about this just made me want to share my thoughts.

 

[Kazza]

I saw this story on Nightline last night and it's got me so mad that I couldn't stop thinking about it all night while I was at work.

Nightline - ABC News

A husband beats his wife in his sleep, she gets scared and confused and calls 911, he gets arrested and now is facing felony domestic battery charges even though the wife believes he's not to blame and is trying to get the charges dropped.

It baffles me how someone can be prosecuted against the wishes of the victim. The only reason that it's an issue is because of a mandatory domestic abuse law. It sounds to me that wife only called 911 because she was afraid not only for herself but for her husband as well but now that they are aware that he has a problem, the family is being forced to waste all their money on legal fees instead of using it on getting the husband the help he needs.

This case is a demonstration of the legal system punishing people for the sake of the law and not taking any time to make sure that they're acting in the best interests of the people involved. Sending this man to jail only serves to cause more harm to his family since he'll probably lose his job, bankrupt his family with fines and be branded a felon which will prevent him from getting a new job when he's released.

I usually don't watch the news much or pay too much attention when I do but something about this just made me want to share my thoughts.

She has probably been beaten before by him and is scared so she changed her story to stick up for him.

Might not be the case, but enough women get beaten up and it always amazes me how they keep going back to these men.

Oh, vice versa - definitely cases of women beating men too - does happen.

 

[RJ2112]

I know it sounds crass..... but the solution for them is to move out of state.

Domestic violence is something that occurs far too often for an exception to be made in this instance (from the D.A.'s point of view). This is literally the 1 in 1000 or 10,000 situation. Opening the door for all the abusive (and enabling) people to justify their actions with this as their alibi is a nightmare for the legal system.

Knowing (from watching the segment) that this could occur again anytime one of the kids walks into their bedroom and screams while daddy is asleep? Just because they have diagnosed the cause, doesn't mean they have found a solution..... She's likely to get the snot beaten out of her again.

Is it responsible for the judge, and the D.A. to allow them to roll the dice like that? I'm personally all about self determination, and privacy and the rights of the individual...... she blew through all of that, when she picked up the phone and called 911. Once you call in the authorities, to protect your self life and limb, how do you call that off, when there is no change that will prevent the situation from repeating?

 

[champion221elite]

In Domestic Violence cases, the officers are almost required to make an arrest if they see signs of injury. For all those officers knew, the victim could be the typical "battered wife" who will make any excuse to keep her husband from going to jail. Maybe he is a sleep walker, and unintentionally assaulted her while he was sleeping. Bottom line, the cops don't know why she was assaulted other than she had physical injuries. It's better to make the arrest and remove one party from the home than it is to have a secondary assault (or murder).

It does not matter if the victim chooses not to prosecute. In DV cases, the state takes over and essentially becomes the victim. If the female in this case speaks with the prosecutors, they will generally drop the charges.

It sucks for the officers, but they don't have the luxury of making a long drawn out decision. About all they can do is follow their department policy which generally says to make the arrest. Can you imagine how an officer would feel, and the lawsuits that would be filed if a suspect was left at home and he killed his wife for calling the police? It's happened before, and this is why they're told to make the arrest and let the courts deal with it later.

 

[dean owens]

She has probably been beaten before by him and is scared so she changed her story to stick up for him.

Might not be the case, but enough women get beaten up and it always amazes me how they keep going back to these men.

Oh, vice versa - definitely cases of women beating men too - does happen.

did you watch the video? although that's always possible, i find it hard to believe with 10 years of marriage, no evidence of it in the past that this was a regular occurrence. that and her distraught call right when it happened lead me to believe this is a case of the government making a law to help and being too mind-numbed to do anything but what they are programmed to do.

we have some of the same zero tolerance mess in schools. i've read stories of great students being expelled for a whole year because someone sees one of those souvenir baseball bats in a car, calls it a club and goes to their zero tolerance of weapons on campus. we have many instances of people not being able to think for themselves. and i'm sure we're not the only country.

but i could be wrong.

 

[Fred]

I punched my girlfriend in the head while I was sleeping. I was having a nightmare where I was fighting something, then was woken up by a very angry woman with a sore skull.

So yes, it can happen.

 

[ELIZABETH]

Yes, it can happen. My ex used to talk, sing, and play basketball in his sleep. (I would wake up next to him, while he was playing a "keyboard" on the mattress and singing. It was hysterical!
He also was dribbling a basketball once, and "guarded" it when I tried to wake him. I got an elbow to the rib cage. (He got one back!)
I feel sorry for this couple, and think the prosecutors are being stupid and narrow minded about this particular situation. I know that victims do lie to protect their abuser (for whatever reason) but after watching the video, I don't believe that is the case here. I hope they can get it straightened out soon. Maybe the publicity from the news story will help them.

 

[KensFz6]

I'm not saying that the law in question isn't there for good reason, or that the husband shouldn't have been arrested at the scene. But to have it drawn out like this after trying to get her husband back is what has me confounded.

I did watch the videos and it seems apparent that the judge doesn't think the man is a threat to his kids since he at least has visitation. But if there aren't any prior incidences, and she's not pressing charges, I don't see why the state won't drop it.

There's probably more to the story. But I can only discuss what I've already seen.

I was thinking the same thing about her throwing away their right to handle it privately after she called 911 but then started to think that it's kinda sad that one of the lessons to learn here is to think twice before calling.

 

[RJ2112]

I'm not saying that the law in question isn't there for good reason, or that the husband shouldn't have been arrested at the scene. But to have it drawn out like this after trying to get her husband back is what has me confounded.

I did watch the videos and it seems apparent that the judge doesn't think the man is a threat to his kids since he at least has visitation. But if there aren't any prior incidences, and she's not pressing charges, I don't see why the state won't drop it.

There's probably more to the story. But I can only discuss what I've already seen.

I was thinking the same thing about her throwing away their right to handle it privately after she called 911 but then started to think that it's kinda sad that one of the lessons to learn here is to think twice before calling.

The problem for the Judge, and the legal system..... you can't guarantee no recurrence. If all it takes to trigger the behavior is a night of dancing and the kid screaming at 4 AM....... stop dancing? Get rid of the kids? Or remove the violent party?

Knowing these folks now understand their situation, and can in all likelihood prevent it from repeating, by modifying their behavior (separate beds, or a lock on the bedroom door, or Dad sleeps in another room with a lock)..... all they need to do is relocate out of that judge's jurisdiction.

WA state is about 30 miles from where they live now. If Dad wants to keep his same job, and live with his family, they need to move across the state line.

 

[Tailgate]

It's not really a wonder why USA has an extremely high incarceration rate. Everything, it seems, is illegal now. Funny, sometimes (actually every episode) you see a woman slap a cheating boyfriend on Springer---isn't that supposed to be a big deal, domestic violence crime? Oh well. Once my father actually punched HIMSELF in the eye while dreaming. Yeah, it happens!

 

[08fz6]

When I go to bed very tired, I talk move etc. I have hit my g/f before in my sleep usually just a simple soft hit, but I have zero remembrance of it in the morning. anything is possible

 

[deeptekkie]

She has probably been beaten before by him and is scared so she changed her story to stick up for him.

Might not be the case, but enough women get beaten up and it always amazes me how they keep going back to these men.

Oh, vice versa - definitely cases of women beating men too - does happen.

Yep. I used to hang out at a local service station in my misspent youth. One Sunday morning a woman walked in, borrowed the phone, called the cops, & had them to come and pick up her husband for beating her face to a purple pulp. After she left the owner looked at me shaking his head and said, "She does that every Sunday morning. He comes in drunk on Saturday night, beats her, she has him arrested on Sunday morning, then on Monday she goes in there and gets him released!"
You may be right.

 

[deeptekkie]

Makes you wonder what she did to him in her sleep doesn't it? Maybe she talks in her sleep and told him that her mother was moving in with them!
(Yeah, bad - I know)

 

[Wh0M3]

we have some of the same zero tolerance mess in schools. i've read stories of great students being expelled for a whole year because someone sees one of those souvenir baseball bats in a car, calls it a club and goes to their zero tolerance of weapons on campus. we have many instances of people not being able to think for themselves. and i'm sure we're not the only country.

but i could be wrong.

I don't know if you saw the story that hit the news about six months back about an Eagle Scout who was going to be expeled because of a small pocket knife found in his car. It was in the trunk in a 'survival kit'. For some kids it wouldn't be a big deal take the punishment, but for him it was threatening to ruin his record and chances to go to west point and become an officer. It makes me sick the way laws go to the extreme. There is a book out there called The Death of Common Sense it talks about laws that are cause from some lawsuit.

I have come to think that laws are written to protect us from the biggest threat, ourselves. :BLAA: When you think about it the crazy laws and lawsuits that are out there are really about someone who didn't have some common sense and ended up getting hurt.

As for the case, I don't know much about this one but I know that women who are in an abusive relationship can call the cops, then turn around and want to not press charges because they love him. I would be one to say that in a normal case where the guy is beating on his wife/ girlfriend she shouldn't have any say in it, he needs to pay for it.

I really believe women and men who are in these kinds of relationships have a mental problem. They tend to go after the same type of person, one that is willing to hit them, then they feel they deserve it somehow, so that would cause them to 'come to their sense' and want to drop the case.

 

[Davey]

I remember a story a while ago (sometime last year I think) where a guy actually stabbed his wife in his sleep as he was convinced she was a burglar trying to kill him in his house. They were in a camper van on holiday somewhere. He woke up covered in blood and called the emergency services to tell them he thought he had just killed his wife. In the end after expert medical evidence he was found not guilty of murder. He had to live with the fact that he killed his wife who he loved very much. Poor guy.

I've woken up in pain after my girlfriend was repeatedly poking me in the eye in her sleep, convinced she was trying ring a doorbell which wasn't working! I got a nice black eye!

We all know it CAN happen, but the police and prosecuting authorities have to look at all of the evidence to make a decision. It's not an easy job either!

All the cases of over the top reactions to policies annoys me so much. It seems the world is slowly being rid of common sense!!!

 

[sempul]

looks like today is going to be a "post cop stories from sempul" day lol. ok again some of you know im a cop in louisiana here. so here is my take on it. (BTW cant watch the video as work laptop wont let me) i would have to have seen signs of abuse. if there are signs of abuse then he would have gone with no question and i would have signed the charges so she CAN NOT drop them. here we have the right to sign even if the victim refuses. just because the random female is too stupid to leave her abusive partner doesnt mean i cant seperate them for at least one night. we used to have a law here that if you was booked for domestic violence (DM) then you had NO bail for 72 hours. i am glad they repealed that because that was a bit extreme. i do think it should be no bail for 24 hours though. and yes there are PLENTY of female on male DM. especially here. in the black culture where i work the woman is the agressor in about 75% of the cases. its crazy. if there is no signs of abuse i usually try to get one or the other to leave for the night and stay with a friend until they can calm down. if they both refuse i leave with the warning that if i come back they are both going. about 80% of that time i DO have to go back and i just arrest them both immediatly and put them BOTH in jail for domestic violence. i will never understand why some grown people can not act in a grown up manner and expect the police to solve all thier life problems! I AM NOT A LIFE COACH OR REFREE! if i come back a second time i dont want to hear a reason, excuse, or discussion. if you are stupid enough to stay in an abusive relationship and expect the police to come every other night to protect you then i feel as though the jail is a pretty safe place. i am the police and i can promise that if they show up at my house it wont be because i called them! i can more than handle the affiars of my home without some joe blow stanger telling me how to live my life! if you are in an abusive relationship then here is a little secret; IT WILL NOT GET BETTER AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THEM! GET AWAY FROM THEM!!!

 

[NineseveN]

Domestic violence is something that occurs far too often for an exception to be made in this instance (from the D.A.'s point of view). This is literally the 1 in 1000 or 10,000 situation. Opening the door for all the abusive (and enabling) people to justify their actions with this as their alibi is a nightmare for the legal system.

You do realize that this country's criminal justice system was built upon Blackstone's formulation, right? Don't know what that is?

As Ben Franklin stated it, "better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer".

Yes, an exception should be made, even if it opens up a practical can of worms for future cases. The state should not be guarding against inconvenience by prosecuting the innocent. Without intent, there is no such thing as "domestic violence". Without malice, there is no such thing as "domestic violence". You cannot have malice or intent while sleeping, you're not of sound mind, nor are you in complete, cognizant control of your motor functions. This whole thing is a bunch of crap.

Just my 2 shillings.

 

[RJ2112]

You do realize that this country's criminal justice system was built upon Blackstone's formulation, right? Don't know what that is?

As Ben Franklin stated it, "better one hundred guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer".

Yes, an exception should be made, even if it opens up a practical can of worms for future cases. The state should not be guarding against inconvenience by prosecuting the innocent. Without intent, there is no such thing as "domestic violence". Without malice, there is no such thing as "domestic violence". You cannot have malice or intent while sleeping, you're not of sound mind, nor are you in complete, cognizant control of your motor functions. This whole thing is a bunch of crap.

Just my 2 shillings.

So the husband is innocent of assault and battery by way of temporary insanity? Not much of a comfort, if it happens again, is it? There's no way for this guy to say he is never going to do this again, is there? He's got to sleep sometime, right?

I'm not arguing that the couple involved should have no say in their future.... as I stated earlier in this thread, they have the choice of moving out of the locale that has so ruled. One of those fundamental freedoms is the right to travel without permission, isn't it? These folks need to vote with their feet.

1/2 of 1%, to 1% of the population has this condition, according to the referenced medical show.... assuming it takes a 'perfect storm' to create a situation where the spouse of someone so afflicted lashes out and stomps the stuffing out of their significant other...... it's a 1 in ~200 chance that any couple could face a similar scenario. Probably happens less than 1 in 1000 sleeps. Even with those sorts of numbers, it's possible that this exact situation plays out at least once a night in a city the size of L.A.

The LEO community is there to 'Serve and Protect'. Someone calls them to the scene of a battery, whether caused by a sane individual or not, the standard practice is to separate the two parties. If there is grievous bodily harm.... the state steps in and prosecutes. The 'insane' party is typically removed from the scene.... whether that is alcohol related, or not.

In this circumstance, it seems like the chance for a recurrence is significant. No one has discussed the 'night of dancing' as a trigger to this event. She didn't exactly sound sober when she called this in......... What does it take, to create that 'perfect storm'?

The decision to run that risk, should not be the State's to make..... and it isn't. Most of the US disregards the law in ways that would make a UK citizen's toes curl. (I have first hand experience with this, Mom was from Peterborough..... married my dad while he was in the USAF, and followed him around the world.)

There are LOTS of restraining orders issued in the US, that are completely ignored by the parties involved. Any LEO can confirm that..... most DV cases, someone has filed and been granted a restraining order.

The problem these folks face, is they are trying to resolve it within the system.

Move. Start over. Be the one in a million, that is not a repeat.

10 years of marriage is nothing to sneeze at. Looking back over nearly 25 years of 'bliss'...... it's not going to get easier....... especially with something like this hanging over everyone's head. How do the kids take this? How will they take it in the future, if it happens again?

 

[NineseveN]

So the husband is innocent of assault and battery by way of temporary insanity?

I'm not sure what your professional or educational experience is, but you don't seem to understand sleep states, insanity or this particular disorder. Temporary insanity is indeed a valid legal plea in our court system, but it doesn't fit this particular case and I never raised it. Not being in control due to a sleep state or sleep disorder is no more indicative of insanity than Tourette's or epilepsy is.

Not much of a comfort, if it happens again, is it? There's no way for this guy to say he is never going to do this again, is there? He's got to sleep sometime, right?

Not much of a comfort to whom? To you? To society? At what point does your (or society's) need for comfort supersede the need for a wife to have her husband in her life and for their children not to be reduced to "visitation".

I'm not arguing that the couple involved should have no say in their future.... as I stated earlier in this thread, they have the choice of moving out of the locale that has so ruled. One of those fundamental freedoms is the right to travel without permission, isn't it? These folks need to vote with their feet.

You can't move away from a felony conviction for domestic violence.

The LEO community is there to 'Serve and Protect'. Someone calls them to the scene of a battery...

I didn't argue that the LEO's were wrong, they had evidence that a crime may have been committed, they followed protocol.

The decision to run that risk, should not be the State's to make..... and it isn't.

It is if it upholds the restraining order and the law empowers them to do so even in this case.

The problem these folks face, is they are trying to resolve it within the system.

So wait, ignoring the law is a valid option? We should support a conviction and court decree that ignores the wishes of the so-called victim in order to save them?

Move. Start over. Be the one in a million, that is not a repeat.

Ever try to get employed with a felony 2 on your sheet? Those things follow you from state to state. Ever tried to move when you're in jail on a 5-year mandatory siesta? Kinda hard to rent a truck and move your stuff when you're confined to an 8x8 cell. It's also hard to put down a security deposit on an apartment with a $125,000 fee hanging over your head.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[sempul]

and in this case im sure there is secial circumstances. however if u ran a back ground on the 2 i would bet my faster blue FZ6 that this is not the first time either of them has had this type of charge on them! i doubt they got arrested and are going through this for thier first time calling the police i can assure you.

however i am of 2 minds here. i almost want to say "if she wants to stay and get killed let her". i mean really if that is what makes her happy what right do we have to force her to stay away? just dont call the police and expect help then get mad when we help the only way we can.