(Resolved) Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

The actual wheel spacer, (that goes into the seal and up against the wheel bearing),sticks out, FROM THE FLAT LIP OF THE WHEEL ITSELF,maybe .030". Its hard to measure as its kinda tight but it does protrude.

If yours is flush, something inside the wheel center has moved inwards...

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Nelly you have a dead blow hammer? That is a hammer made of hard plastic for the striker. We need to tap the right side (RS) bearing and see if it moves in the hub. OR the next step is to punch out the RS the seal but its likely going to get damaged so you'll need a new one.

I think you should pull the wheel, put that long spacer into the wheel and drop the axle in to the spacer. Leave the drive hub assembly off!
With your hammer, hold the axle and tap it and see if you feel the bearing on the other side of the wheel move outwards. It may be wise to measure from the hub to the axle bolt sticking up and see just how far out it is.

Going back to the RED RUST i talked about a long time ago, something has been loose and moving to make all that red crap. I know you said, red grease, but I see rusty metal from parts being loose. Something is WRONG and that bearing is moving around in there.

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

I fear a new wheel could be in the future.

We have three cards to play.
1) C-clip came out. but it DOES NOT explain why the wheel shifted RIGHT.
2) bearing is bad. Should have equal free play going left and right (it doesn't) so this doesn't explain it either.
3) the RS bearing has worn itself into the wheels hub assembly and will require replacement.

VERY STRANGE!. . . .

EDIT: Am I on drugs? If the wheel moved right on the shaft and spacers it means the inner hub has been chewed down by the bearing (pictures make it look like it went right). BUT the weakest link is the C-clip. If the C-clip popped free it would allow the wheel to go left towards the chain and all the hanger wear would be towards the inside (left side). So why would the bearing eat the hub unless it locked up and spun??? This makes no sense as it wouldn't just be all smooth again one day like it fixed itself!

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

There's something screwed up with the wheel and/or bearings.

The brake bracket shifted over, the wheel spacer and bracket (a set distance) keeps it centered to the disc.

As you stated above, assembling the wheel spacer, bracket, caliper without the swingarm would eliminate any problems with the swingarm.. All that red dust doesn't appear to be wheel bearing grease to me but a bearing gone very bad, quite awhile ago...

Wether the inner part of the wheel is worn out (froze bearing rotating in the wheel itself or ?).

We'll know soon enough, its getting narrowed down..

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

The actual wheel spacer, (that goes into the seal and up against the wheel bearing),sticks out, FROM THE FLAT LIP OF THE WHEEL ITSELF,maybe .030". Its hard to measure as its kinda tight but it does protrude.

If yours is flush, something inside the wheel center has moved inwards...

the right hand spacer doe's protrude from the hub. It is not flush and as you stated it only comes out a few mm.
I am just uploading pictures to Photo bucket and will load them up as soon as they are finished. My internet speed is currently 3.75kbs.............

Nelly

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

the right hand spacer doe's protrude from the hub. It is not flush and as you stated it only comes out a few mm.
I am just uploading pictures to Photo bucket and will load them up as soon as they are finished. My internet speed is currently 3.75kbs.............

Nelly

You running Dial up over there Nelly? OUCH!!!!

For what its worth, bite the bullet and knock out the right side dust seal. The story will unfold. . .

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

View attachment 43501

Notice were the seal has worn the bushing in nice perfect ring with no variation?
Hint: big Red arrow. . .
Does yours show a nice true tracking like this OR does it get real wide and kinda washed out like its NOT STAYING in place - perhaps running in multiple areas like the blue arrows?

Please advise!

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

There's something screwed up with the wheel and/or bearings.

The brake bracket shifted over, the wheel spacer and bracket (a set distance) keeps it centered to the disc.

As you stated above, assembling the wheel spacer, bracket, caliper without the swingarm would eliminate any problems with the swingarm.. All that red dust doesn't appear to be wheel bearing grease to me but a bearing gone very bad, quite awhile ago...

Wether the inner part of the wheel is worn out (froze bearing rotating in the wheel itself or ?).

We'll know soon enough, its getting narrowed down..

No mate this is country wireless broadband, Our phone lines are not compatible with broadband so I have to use the mobile network. Living in the sticks doesn't help. Were the last to get any upgrades.

Nelly

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

No mate this is country wireless broadband, Our phone lines are not compatible with broadband so I have to use the mobile network. Living in the sticks doesn't help. Were the last to get any upgrades.

Nelly

That was FinalImpact, not me....

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Ok here goes, I do have a drift hammer but the bearings are seated correctly and unlike most Yamaha factory parts are bathed in grease.
I also thought that the bearing may have been seated wrong but on the left side there is a bloody great cir-clip in the way and on the right side it would seem that I have the required protrusion. There is no spec to drift it to.
The red stuff previously seen on the caliper is copper grease.
Fred I even cleaned the thing prior to commencing works lol, even soaked the chain in Kerosene as I had two stiff links.
Obvious wear on hanger

Rear wheel spindle & spacers

Left side

Left spacer out

Left spacer in

Right spacer out

Right spacer in (Thanks to my daughter Caitlin [6] for supplying the third hand)

Chain adjusters out, apparently notorious for being out of line. These two are pretty close in terms of thread and length adjustment. Having said that they do not alter the plain of the hanger, regardless of adjustment.

No torque on spindle with initial alignment

Torqued up to spec @ 120Nm

torque wrench setting, it didn't come with instructions so I assumed you dial in the closest setting then fine tune with added units so mine is at 112nm and I added 8 to make 120. Is this correct?

Swing arm hanger guide once torqued up. There is about 2.5mm exposed as the hanger does not sit flush. Is this to spec guys? Can you have a look at your bike and let me know?

I may have been a bit misleading when I said that undoing the spindle nut resolved the problem. The rub was still there but I was able to physically pull the hanger to wards the left-hand side so the rub was reduced.
When I did the swing arm pivot service the swing arm dropped in a horizontal plain. I couldn't figure how to realign it. I did use a considerable amount of muscle trying to get the B@stard into place until I realized I needed to lift it up horizontally to align it. Could I have twisted the swing arm?
I am still perplexed and frankly fed up with this issue. Other than that the bike is riding like a dream.
Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

The picture with the RIGHT SPACER OUT, where the wheel seal rubs the spacer, it appears to me (maybe just the angle) that the rub mark is crooked and not even all the way around.

Can you confirm one way or the other?

**If you remove the wheel and assemble the bushings, bracket, caliper and wheel togther WITHOUT THE SWINGARM, does it make any difference?*** I'm just trying to rule out the swingarm pushing the bracket inwards...

That slot is super clean where the bracket goes into on the swingarm I'm assuming. Any junk in there would push the bracket inwards.

I looked at the space inbetween the swingarm and the bracket, its hard to see in there but appears about the same as yours... The space (offset) with the RS bushing in the wheel also looks good...

I seriously doubt you bent your swingarm unless you had a 10' lever on in torqing the snot out of it.

As for the torque wrench, line up the horizontal line on say 140. If you want 144, crank it in another 4, that'd bring you to 144 (I just picked that number to use). The bracket should be pretty much centered snugged down lightly or fully torqued down. Obviously, something is still amiss...

Wish you were closer for some hands on probing/investigating...

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

The picture with the RIGHT SPACER OUT, where the wheel seal rubs the spacer, it appears to me (maybe just the angle) that the rub mark is crooked and not even all the way around.

Can you confirm one way or the other?

If you remove the wheel and assemble the bushings, bracket, caliper and wheel togther WITHOUT THE SWINGARM, does it make any difference? I'm just trying to rule out the swingarm pushing the bracket inwards...

No Scott,
Your correct the wear seen on the hanger is due to the angle of the hanger as it sits in the guide. On your picture there is even spacing throughout the hanger and the disc. On mine the spacing is wider distal to the top of the hanger that overlaps the disc.
Getting the swing arm off is a nightmare as the bottom retaining bolt to the shock has seized. I had to undo the top shock bolt to remove the swing arm.
Sorry I can't visualize what you mean by removing the swing arm and assembling the other parts?

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

No Scott,
Your correct the wear seen on the hanger is due to the angle of the hanger as it sits in the guide. On your picture there is even spacing throughout the hanger and the disc. On mine the spacing is wider distal to the top of the hanger that overlaps the disc.
Getting the swing arm off is a nightmare as the bottom retaining bolt to the shock has seized. I had to undo the top shock bolt to remove the swing arm.
Sorry I can't visualize what you mean by removing the swing arm and assembling the other parts?

Just assemble on the floor w/out the bike.

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

I fear a new wheel could be in the future.

We have three cards to play.
1) C-clip came out. but it DOES NOT explain why the wheel shifted RIGHT.
2) bearing is bad. Should have equal free play going left and right (it doesn't) so this doesn't explain it either.
3) the RS bearing has worn itself into the wheels hub assembly and will require replacement.

VERY STRANGE!. . . .

EDIT: Am I on drugs? If the wheel moved right on the shaft and spacers it means the inner hub has been chewed down by the bearing (pictures make it look like it went right). BUT the weakest link is the C-clip. If the C-clip popped free it would allow the wheel to go left towards the chain and all the hanger wear would be towards the inside (left side). So why would the bearing eat the hub unless it locked up and spun??? This makes no sense as it wouldn't just be all smooth again one day like it fixed itself!

C-clip is still in situ and a pain in the ar5e to remove. However I did remove it to inspect the bearing. The RS bearing shows no sign of destruction and is seated well. All of the wear is on the right.
Neil

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Just assemble on the floor w/out the bike.

+!...

Correct, assembly WITHOUT THE SWINGARM (leave it on the bike) and see where the WHEEL, spacers, bearings, etc put the caliper with the disc. Lets see if the caliper is now centered or still dragging..

That may eliminate or give us a better direction to head..

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Just assemble on the floor w/out the bike.

Duh, Ok I see what you mean. Sorry it's late and we have spent the guts of a day on it.
I will do that tomorrow.
Won't there still be a huge gap where the swing arm should be?
Neil

 

[FinalImpact]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Right spacer out

In this picture, can you cleary see that the snap ring is seated in the grove?

Can you place all your weight on the bearing from this side and make it move?
Can you place all your weight on the bearing from the Drive side and make it move?

As long as you don't strike it with metal to metal contact or damage the seal you can tap on with a wooden dowel. Somehow that bearing is moving.

Also is there any gap between that snap ring and the bearing?

EDIT: Can you please CLEAN OFF that spacer (above) and answer the wear pattern question. It will help us determine what's wrong....View attachment 43503

View attachment 43504

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

View attachment 43501

Notice were the seal has worn the bushing in nice perfect ring with no variation?
Hint: big Red arrow. . .
Does yours show a nice true tracking like this OR does it get real wide and kinda washed out like its NOT STAYING in place - perhaps running in multiple areas like the blue arrows?

Please advise!

Even wear on both spacers. The bearing doe's not move with pressure on either side. The wear is identical to yours, 2 even rings of wear around the circumference. Seriously this doe's not appear to be a bearing issue.
I like the graphic.
Neil

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

I will drop the wheel again in the morning and re-check the right side bearing. I Have used my last oil seal so will have to treat it gently.
12.50 here defo time for me laba.
Cheers for all the input fellas, this would have cost me a second mortgage.
PARTY ON AND SLEEP WELL.
NEIL:BLAA::BLAA:
Neil

 

[Nelly]

Re: Abnormal wear of rear brake hanger. What have I done? Help!

Hi Guys,
I removed the wheel and assembled it without swing arm. And looked at the bearing play and seating.

1. view of LS bearing looking at right bearing which appears to be sitting correctly. No evidence of metal shards.

2. Spindle, hanger and wheel assembled off of bike. Rub still present. Obviously I had to pull the spindle through to get the hanger to mate up with the RS.

3 Spacer wear, looks about even, surfaced tarnished due to constant rainy conditions in which I ride.

I did not have any lateral play in the roller bearings. The bearings look to be seated correctly, There is absolute minimal space between the long middle spacer and the outer spacers. No lateral play which also makes me feel that the bearings are seated.
I could not move the bearings laterally by hand or by standing on them.

I need some TLC

Cheers Neil