Noticing a trend in FZ6 Horsepower Obsession

What will provide the best real world performance for the FZ?

  • Leave it alone, she's fine the way she is.

    Votes: 225 49.9%
  • Exhaust, air filter, airbox mods that get us 5-10 hp increase ($200 per 1 hp increase).

    Votes: 78 17.3%
  • Engine Swap with R6 for a 35 hp increase ($64 per 1 hp increase).

    Votes: 23 5.1%
  • Suspension, everybody knows suspension is where it's at for real world performance increase.

    Votes: 125 27.7%

  • Total voters
    451

jtarkany

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Lately I have seen quite a few posts, and have even contributed myself, that have focused on increased horsepower for the FZ6. Like you, I dislike the, "why didn't you just get an r6?" question, there are too many reasons to list why I chose the FZ6 over the R6.

That being said, I have a 2006 FZ6, factory specs for Horsepower and Torque are fairly respectable.

Horsepower: 96.55 HP (70.5 kW)) @ 12000 RPM
Torque: 63.10 Nm (6.4 kgf-m or 46.5 ft.lbs) @ 10000 RPM

Using the specs for a 2006 YZF-R6 as a comparison point (same year as my FZ6), and I would assume something that people who want a horsepower increase would shoot for, they are as follows:

Horsepower: 131.15 HP (95.7 kW)) @ 14500 RPM
Torque: 68.00 Nm (6.9 kgf-m or 50.2 ft.lbs) @ 6930 RPM

As you can see, there is a respectable difference of about +35 Horsepower.

As many of you know from reading other threads and posts on this forum the typical 'alleged' horspeower gain from mods such as, airfilter, airbox, exhaust and Power Commander seem to be in the 5-10 horsepower range, narrowing the gap between the FZ6 and R6 to a difference of about 25 to 30 Horspeower at a cost of between $1,000 to $2,000, for an average cost of $200 per 1 Horsepower increase.

An alternative that I have not seen or heard discussed would be a straight up engine swap with an R6 Yes, I am being serious here, after all you can get a used R6 motor on ebay for between $1,500 and $3,000, which would give you a 35 Horsepower increase, at an average cost of $64 per 1 Horsepower increase.

Now for the big question: I have ridden with friends that have the R6, and it makes me wonder, how does this +35 Horsepower translate into real world performance, I mean it's not like they are kicking my a$$ in the twisties. And obviously there are other factors such as, rider, skill, tires, suspension, etc...

So if real world performance is the motivation for this Horsepower obsession, where should we, in order of priority, be putting our money to get the best real world performance possible out of our FZ's?
 

sxty8goats

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While I'm not looking for more power, the R6 upgrade sounds intregueing. If you can buy and R6 motor you can also sell your FZ6 motor. If it is a clean swap, 1/1 with little mods, you could almost do it for a couple hundred bucks after the sale of the FZ6 motor.

Chances are though, you will need to update the computer as well. Still, could possibly be done with a PCIII.
 

lonesoldier84

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The amount of money it takes to make the fz into something phenomenal performance wise is just not worth it.

It is a jack of all trades and does sport riding well enough for just about every single one of us here. When the time comes I want something with ridonculous performance I'll take the money i saved on performance mods and use it as a downpayment on 3-5 year old supersport thoroughbred.

In the meantime, the FZ gets me round a racetrack and round local roads quickly enough that i have no complaints.
 

Wavex

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Now for the big question: I have ridden with friends that have the R6, and it makes me wonder, how does this +35 Horsepower translate into real world performance, I mean it's not like they are kicking my a$$ in the twisties. And obviously there are other factors such as, rider, skill, tires, suspension, etc...

What's important to be fast in twisties:

technique:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

bike:
IIIIIII

:D

You can have all the HP in the world and it won't make you faster in the corners... it will make you go faster in a straight line though...

So if real world performance is the motivation for this Horsepower obsession, where should we, in order of priority, be putting our money to get the best real world performance possible out of our FZ's?

Put your money in track days and suspension, that's where you will get the most improvements in "speed", not by spending thousands of dollars in performance mods or a diff bike (unless you like to drag race in a straight line)... IMO :cheer:
 

Wavex

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just reminded me of a little story from yesterday's ride with John...

We're getting ready to go up Mount Baldy, and at the bottom of the mountain we stop in town to get gas... there, we see a dude in a flamboyant Ducati Corse red and white full leather suit and his $20k+ Ducati sitting there... he didn't look at me... lol we leave, and I see him half a block behind us...

We exit the town and not 5min later the Ducati comes flying by us on a straight before the climb... I smile in my helmet :D

John kept the 5-10 over speed limit (as usual), and same going up the mountain... including in turns... barely any brakes, just a smooth climb up... we slowly caught up to the Duc... I quickly realized that he was basically WOT between turns, and quite slow "in" turns... 5min later he was behind us and never tried to pass us in the straights again... p0wned by a Harley!!!! :rof: :D

He must have had 40HP on me at least...
 
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Hellgate

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just reminded me of a little story from yesterday's ride with John...

We're getting ready to go up Mount Baldy, and at the bottom of the mountain we stop in town to get gas... there, we see a dude in a flamboyant Ducati Corse red and white full leather suit and his $20+ Ducati sitting there... he didn't look at me... lol we leave, and I see him half a block behind us...

We exit the town and not 5min later the Ducati comes flying by us on a straight before the climb... I smile in my helmet :D

John kept the 5-10 over speed limit (as usual), and same going up the mountain... including in turns... barely any brakes, just a smooth climb up... we slowly caught up to the Duc... I quickly realized that he was basically WOT between turns, and quite slow "in" turns... 5min later he was behind us and never tried to pass us in the straights again :D

He must have had 40HP on me at least...

Great story, thanks for sharing it.

I had a similar experience at a track day a couple of years ago. This guy in my session had a 999 or something, and all the matching Duc gear, and was faster than me on the straights, he had better tires and more torque too. But at the beginning of every corner I was about two feet off his butt, then he'd zoom away. Finally I got a wheel in on him and slammed the door in his face. Didn't see him the rest of the day.
 

afpreppie04

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Although I realize you are comparing with a 2006 R6 since your FZ6 is also 06, that is not the R6 our engine is made from. That would be the 03-05 R6, the current one at the time Yamaha released our bike. I'm not sure swapping the 06 R6 engine in would be easy by any means. The 03-05 (later years for R6S) engine would most likely be a lot closer to bolt-in, but there are other differences as well, ECU (injector firing is different) etc. Those model R6 only made 115 hp without ram air though, so it wouldn't be much difference. They were actually rated at 121 hp but that was with ram air, which we don't have.
 

YamahaMAXdRPMs

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In my opinion. Im not trying to make my bike a R6. I just want it to get it faster, if I had an R6, I would try to make it as fast as a R1, if i had an R1 I would try to make it as fast as a Busa. Its just a hobby. I was never one to keep a car, truck, motorcycle, or even bicycle stock for long. It adds your own personality to it. Be that looks, comfort or speed. Even if i had a Ducati Desmosedici I would still try to upgrade it. Thats half the fun :thumbup:
 

jtarkany

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What's important to be fast in twisties:

technique:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
bike:
IIIIIII

:D

You can have all the HP in the world and it won't make you faster in the corners... it will make you go faster in a straight line though...

Put your money in track days and suspension, that's where you will get the most improvements in "speed", not by spending thousands of dollars in performance mods or a diff bike (unless you like to drag race in a straight line)... IMO :cheer:

Damn! I wish I had added "Improving your skills," to the poll :confused:

Although I realize you are comparing with a 2006 R6 since your FZ6 is also 06, that is not the R6 our engine is made from. That would be the 03-05 R6, the current one at the time Yamaha released our bike. I'm not sure swapping the 06 R6 engine in would be easy by any means. The 03-05 (later years for R6S) engine would most likely be a lot closer to bolt-in, but there are other differences as well, ECU (injector firing is different) etc. Those model R6 only made 115 hp without ram air though, so it wouldn't be much difference. They were actually rated at 121 hp but that was with ram air, which we don't have.

Agreed! But at the cost per horsepower, I would be willing to bet you could do the swap with all of the necessary mods for less than $200 per 1 horsepower increase.

In my opinion. Im not trying to make my bike a R6. I just want it to get it faster, if I had an R6, I would try to make it as fast as a R1, if i had an R1 I would try to make it as fast as a Busa. Its just a hobby. I was never one to keep a car, truck, motorcycle, or even bicycle stock for long. It adds your own personality to it. Be that looks, comfort or speed. Even if i had a Ducati Desmosedici I would still try to upgrade it. Thats half the fun :thumbup:

I don't think any of us are trying to make our FZ's into R6's, but rather, like you, just enjoy, tinkering, modding, and trying to improve perfromance, looks, originality, uniqueness, whatever :thumbup:
 
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Wyotech kid

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I'm all for modding my FZ6, but I know I can't turn into something its not.

In my opinion what good is all that power if you can't use it the right way. Quote from Yamaha. " Power without Precision is pointless" :thumbup:

I get the same question as well, why didn't you just get an R6?
I had thought about it before I bought my FZ6 but in the real world of commuting daily and just going for a ride the R6 wasn't comfortable.

Yea the r6 has power, but the newest onesput down 108-112 hp to the rear wheel. I know for a fact because I dynoed several new r6's and they had the normal mods of exhaust, filter, PC3. Mind you that power comes when its screaming up top. Who here is willing to redline their bike going around town just to have "all that power"

In my opinion the FZ6 has enough power to get me from stop light to stop light and it does down low don't have to scream to move like an r6.

And in the way of track days from my experience I went up again a BMW K1200. Murdered me in the straights but I'd get mad at him in the corners cuz he went from speeddemon to driving miss daisy. That bike has me easily beaten by 60+ hp.

My instructors all say the same thing, I dont need more power to keep up with all those others bikes during my track days, I just need gearing and suspension.
 

lonesoldier84

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Put your money in track days and suspension, that's where you will get the most improvements in "speed", not by spending thousands of dollars in performance mods or a diff bike (unless you like to drag race in a straight line)... IMO

/thread

lol, that's an extremely accurate statement. I've only done one track day and it was a day with an instructor at a race school. I learned more and got so much quicker based on the feedback I got from there and the knowledge I've picked up from books/dvds like TOTW, etc than any amount of tire, engine or suspension upgrades would have made me.
 

Bikebiz

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How about buying an R6 and fitting dirt bike riser bars to it!

I don't think all these mods are done purely for HP gains. Eg I've got some pipes on order. I'm happy with my HP at the moment. My motivation for the pipes is the sound. If I get more HP with that then all the sweeter, and we like to think that each thing does add a bit of power. But it's often not the primary motivation.

I removed my pillion footpegs to save weight. But it's not because I want to achieve a certain weight figure, just that they're superfluous to my needs. If I had an R6 I'd also remove them, that's not to say I'm chasing more, just that I can.

If I had an R6, I'd still do over 50% of my FZ6 mods to it.

Good observation though, and seems especially prevelant in the PC3/5 threads.
 

FZ1inNH

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In my opinion. Im not trying to make my bike a R6. I just want it to get it faster, if I had an R6, I would try to make it as fast as a R1, if i had an R1 I would try to make it as fast as a Busa. Its just a hobby. I was never one to keep a car, truck, motorcycle, or even bicycle stock for long. It adds your own personality to it. Be that looks, comfort or speed. Even if i had a Ducati Desmosedici I would still try to upgrade it. Thats half the fun :thumbup:

When you say "faster", are you talking flat out speed or are you really meaning to say you want more torque? I mean, the FZ6 will go from zero to ticket in first gear and off to jail in second gear. But (and I may be mistaken) what I think you mean is you want it faster out of the hole, rolling on at the apex? That means you're looking for torque. ;)

But, just as Wavex and Hellgate pointed out, technique and a properly handling bike are paramount to being able to out-pace other bikes. The FZ1 is hard pressed to stay with the smaller 600, 500 and 250 bikes on a totally technical track (all curves and few straights) with like riders. A highly technical rider on a 250 is going to put any of the larger bikes away if they carry the "average skilled" street rider.

The FZ6 is a great machine for what it is... mild sport and touring... a daily commuter. But without a lot of money in upgrades, namely race-quality suspension, the bike struggles to stay in a heavy lean through the corner and because it cannot be adjusted from stock, is terrible at settling through a bump in a corner and can be quite scary (I know first hand...)

The FZ1, even though it has adjustable suspension, is still not great, but better. It is still going to take some hard earned cash to make this bike perform should I want more out of it. For now, with the adjustments I have made, it is a ton better than my old FZ6 but it can be a lot better still...
 
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youngGun

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Just a fun fact that most ppl do not know but the hp numbers between the R6 and the FZ6 are misleading. Yamaha and their awesomeness pulled a fast one...the Hp numbers for the R6 are measured at the crank for a great selling point 135hp 600cc supersport, funny enough the FZ6 hp numbers are measured at the rear wheel for a selling point of 96hp swiss army knife jack of all trades....pretty neat how they did that huh :thumbup: so in all reality the r6 makes about 115-120ish at the wheel...my .02 night all
 

krid80

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interesting fact: I never pay retail for anything I buy*

The Leo Vince exhaust I got barely used (indistinguishable from new) for $400. The PCV I paid $285 (shipped) for through indysuperbikes.com. The BMC I got on closeout from Fast by Feracci for $20.

So.... my 7hp gain cost me $700 but beyond that, my exhaust looks amazing and sounds great too. That fact doesn't show up on graphs or stopwatches.

HOWEVER. my 7hp gain was before the PCV which puts 7hp at $420 which is just $60 per horsepower. I win the bhp/$ race!


*unless I have no choice - items I "need" instead of "want"
 

krid80

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Just a fun fact that most ppl do not know but the hp numbers between the R6 and the FZ6 are misleading. Yamaha and their awesomeness pulled a fast one...the Hp numbers for the R6 are measured at the crank for a great selling point 135hp 600cc supersport, funny enough the FZ6 hp numbers are measured at the rear wheel for a selling point of 96hp swiss army knife jack of all trades....pretty neat how they did that huh :thumbup: so in all reality the r6 makes about 115-120ish at the wheel...my .02 night all

actually, the FZ6 is rated at 98hp at the crank. on a rolling dyno, most people see 85-89hp at the tire.
 
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