Woo! Shooting Guns!

[DownrangeFuture]

Every number mentioned is wrong. :spank:

The 91 in M91/30 is for 1891 which is when the rifle was developed in Belgium.

Right now, they range from $70 a run of the mill WWII surplus rifle (arsenal new, never fired) to $400-450 for a numbers matching sniper variant.

The Finnish M91s are capable of groups that tight, but the Russians usually do good at about 2-3" with bayonet.

Production ceased in 1965.

The AK-47 was fielded in 1947 and was general issued by 1949.

Meh, it was off the top of my head at work. I did all the research when I was given mine 2-3 years ago. So please correct my mistakes. Honest.

Mine is headstamped as made in 1943. And the prices are what I saw at the last gunshow in Jacksonville. I can't vouch for much else. I'm a shooter, not a history buff. I am fascinated when someone has one and knows about it, but I don't usually look for historic rifles. But the mosin are usually fairly cheap unless you're talking papers and full kit and all. The one I saw for $3000 was never fired, and had some papers to prove it, it came in the wood box with all of the cleaning gear, pouches, bayonet, and scope.

I've never got groups tighter than 8" at 100yds with it so I can't comment on if it's any better. My father in law's Mosin shoots a little under 2" but I kind of think the only thing original is the bolt...



I like the AR-15 man. I've been looking at the Ruger SR-556 standard for awhile now. I just can't justify it to myself. A .223 will drop a deer, but the shot needs to be well placed. I've shot the M16 and M4 and it's a nice shooting rifle. Most of my rifle shooting practice is aimed at hunting so I'm looking for 5" groups at worst. And why would I need 20 rounds? Of course, it looks awesome... Now if they had a three gun competition here, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I might pick up another shotgun. Or a pistol. That's about it for now. I really want to build one, but that whole pesky FFL deal. I saw a single shot system with interchangeable barrels that looked neat. The only deer I've ever taken was with my FIL's gun like that. Rossi Firearms I think? It had a .308 barrel and I got told that it had never been fired so he didn't know if it was any good. One shot on a doe turned quarter to me at around 83 yards. She fell right over. I'd say it shoots well. The feeder was 85 yards from the blind and she was in front of it.

At the end of the day, I have really only been shooting regularly for about 2 years. Before that I only shot at my in-laws, and it was infrequently. I mean, I got my first pistol last October. I've practiced about once a month with a Beretta 9mm in the Navy but that's not a lot. 50-75 round course once a month? Although, by my count I've put 2250 rounds through my XD since then. (100 a payday for 11 months plus the 50 yesterday.) Shooting the pistol kind of put a damper on my rifle shooting, but since I kind of feel obligated to as I carry it I kept shooting it. And I will continue to do so. That's why I was excited about the IDPA match every Sat at my range.

Oh, and if anyone shoots awesome enough for a precision rifle, Snipercentral.com makes some nice custom builds based off the Remington 770. But I can't shoot that well. 0.5MOA? Really? Wow.

 

[Sawblade]

Meh, it was off the top of my head at work. I did all the research when I was given mine 2-3 years ago. So please correct my mistakes. Honest.

Mine is headstamped as made in 1943. And the prices are what I saw at the last gunshow in Jacksonville. I can't vouch for much else. I'm a shooter, not a history buff. I am fascinated when someone has one and knows about it, but I don't usually look for historic rifles. But the mosin are usually fairly cheap unless you're talking papers and full kit and all. The one I saw for $3000 was never fired, and had some papers to prove it, it came in the wood box with all of the cleaning gear, pouches, bayonet, and scope.

I've never got groups tighter than 8" at 100yds with it so I can't comment on if it's any better. My father in law's Mosin shoots a little under 2" but I kind of think the only thing original is the bolt...



I like the AR-15 man. I've been looking at the Ruger SR-556 standard for awhile now. I just can't justify it to myself. A .223 will drop a deer, but the shot needs to be well placed. I've shot the M16 and M4 and it's a nice shooting rifle. Most of my rifle shooting practice is aimed at hunting so I'm looking for 5" groups at worst. And why would I need 20 rounds? Of course, it looks awesome... Now if they had a three gun competition here, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

I might pick up another shotgun. Or a pistol. That's about it for now. I really want to build one, but that whole pesky FFL deal. I saw a single shot system with interchangeable barrels that looked neat. The only deer I've ever taken was with my FIL's gun like that. Rossi Firearms I think? It had a .308 barrel and I got told that it had never been fired so he didn't know if it was any good. One shot on a doe turned quarter to me at around 83 yards. She fell right over. I'd say it shoots well. The feeder was 85 yards from the blind and she was in front of it.

At the end of the day, I have really only been shooting regularly for about 2 years. Before that I only shot at my in-laws, and it was infrequently. I mean, I got my first pistol last October. I've practiced about once a month with a Beretta 9mm in the Navy but that's not a lot. 50-75 round course once a month? Although, by my count I've put 2250 rounds through my XD since then. (100 a payday for 11 months plus the 50 yesterday.) Shooting the pistol kind of put a damper on my rifle shooting, but since I kind of feel obligated to as I carry it I kept shooting it. And I will continue to do so. That's why I was excited about the IDPA match every Sat at my range.

Oh, and if anyone shoots awesome enough for a precision rifle, Snipercentral.com makes some nice custom builds based off the Remington 770. But I can't shoot that well. 0.5MOA? Really? Wow.

I've got a 1943 round receiver and had a 1940 round laminate (really nice grain pattern), but sold it a month later. Nuggets are plenty fun to shoot though. I got my C&R FFL license so I can interstate transfer anything over 50 years. I also bought a Walther P1, and want to get a Browning Auto 5 with it.

Your groups will improve, just work on your technique, and maybe attend some local appleseed matches. If you want to tweak your Nugget, Timney makes match triggers for it and there are butt pads that bolt in place of the metal plate.

ARs for me are just as fun to build as they are to shoot. (just like the bike) I'm doing 3/4" groups at 100yds with the big one, and could probably do better just working on form and tweaking my handloads. 5rd magazines are available, it's just 20s and 30s are more common. Also, there's a TON of calibers that it can be built to shoot. Check out .458 SOCOM if you're worried about stoppin' powah.

The XD is a nice gun, I've been on a crusade to find a XDm 9mm 4.5" with a dark earth frame. I've seen pictures of them, but I'm entirely sure they actually exist.




Also, this is a gun porn thread now.

My other AR.

The 1911.

 

[Humperdinkel]

<< Jealous , much I wish I could play with half the toys you guys can :thumbup:

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Gun Porn! It's one of my favorite kinds. I also like pics of naked...

bikes.

I don't have any action pics of me though. I'm gonna get some this weekend at my first match! Here's to hopin I hit a target.

Kinda weird that it's hard finding a earth brown one. I had a devil of a time finding a blued one. Maybe something to do with SA going to the XDm series now? Shooters only had one, it was a .40S&W (I wanted .45ACP) and it cost more than the brown ones. Dropped a few lines about shooting the baretta in the military and when it came time to buy the receipt showed $200 off the sale price on the brown ones.

So, I shop at Shooters! And wear my ID with pride in there now. Being military in the shooting world seems to go a long way. :thumbup:

When my bonus comes in, I'm getting a single stage reloader for the .22-250 and the 7mm-08. Hopefully making it cost less than $1.40 and $1.25 a shot will mean I can shoot more.



Can't shoot much Humperdinkel? Cause of local laws or it's just $$$?

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Oh, and sub-MOA is my goal now. I'm still looking into a nice shooting AR-15, and/or building a long range hair splitter. Both maybe?

And I need a place to hunt. Florida has gator (not interested), and some bird. Deer is scarce here, althought I could hunt public I guess. And FL is weird about their military discounts on hunting licenses. They wanted so many documents, I just said screw it and paid the $15 for a saltwater license. That doesn't even count the actual lease.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Ive been looking into gettin either a ar or a m4 type rifle for a while and am really intrested in the 9mm or. 45acp conversions. I would pretty much only use it for target shooting and just plain having fun. Ive shoot both in the nato versions and loved them the m4-a1 felt more natural to me but I wanna go with the 9mm or. 45 because of the rising price of ammo, and it seems like you could have more fun with it plus I imagine it would shed a couple pounds going that route, have either of y'all shoot one like that....thoughts, preference, pros, cons???

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[DownrangeFuture]

I've only shot the military versions of the M16 and the M4. And they're both great shooting guns. The M4 sacrifices a bit of long range accuracy for a much shorter barrel suited for CQC. (Or CQB if you play Modern Warfare) So I can't comment on that exact conversion, but knowing the AR-15 platform and having a general idea of balistics, you can make some assumptions.

So, I'm assuming that you're talking about converting to shooting pistol ammo. 9mm pistol ammo is barely super sonic, and the .45ACP is sub-sonic leaving the barrel. The longer barrel will increase muzzle velocity some, but the tighter rifling will slow it back down.

Honestly though, both rounds hit hard inside of 50yds and should shoot straight for a few hundered yards. But the slower speeds will make that quickly drop off. Realistically, without looking up ballistic tables myself, you should be able to do 200-300yds if you're a crack shot.

Felt recoil would probably be inline with the .223 (5.56) versions. Bigger bullet, less powder and more weight than a pistol.

Reliability would depend on the action. Accuracy would depend on the barrel and how well it was mounted. It sounds like a lot of fun to me and should take a deer or smaller game with a well placed shot. And you could probably shoot that all day long and your wallet wouldn't hate you.

My .40S&W goes for $10 for 50 rounds.

 

[FIZZER6]

My .40S&W goes for $10 for 50 rounds.

Where on earth are you buying loaded .40S&W for that cheap? Even the cheapest target rounds I can find in .40 are $15 per 50.

I started hand casting lead bullets from my 600lb pile of scrap lead last year...works out to about $3 for 50 rounds when you don't have to buy the bullets and you reload! I'm also working up highly accurate Nosler Ballistic tip handloads for my .270, 7mm-08 and .30/06 for about $8 for 20 rounds...the .270 will put 5 rounds in one ragged hole at 100 yards with my 3-9x40mm Leupold. Took me 3 powders and about 100 rounds to work up a load this accurate. :thumbup:

 

[ChevyFazer]

I've only shot the military versions of the M16 and the M4. And they're both great shooting guns. The M4 sacrifices a bit of long range accuracy for a much shorter barrel suited for CQC. (Or CQB if you play Modern Warfare) So I can't comment on that exact conversion, but knowing the AR-15 platform and having a general idea of balistics, you can make some assumptions.

So, I'm assuming that you're talking about converting to shooting pistol ammo. 9mm pistol ammo is barely super sonic, and the .45ACP is sub-sonic leaving the barrel. The longer barrel will increase muzzle velocity some, but the tighter rifling will slow it back down.

Honestly though, both rounds hit hard inside of 50yds and should shoot straight for a few hundered yards. But the slower speeds will make that quickly drop off. Realistically, without looking up ballistic tables myself, you should be able to do 200-300yds if you're a crack shot.

Felt recoil would probably be inline with the .223 (5.56) versions. Bigger bullet, less powder and more weight than a pistol.

Reliability would depend on the action. Accuracy would depend on the barrel and how well it was mounted. It sounds like a lot of fun to me and should take a deer or smaller game with a well placed shot. And you could probably shoot that all day long and your wallet wouldn't hate you.

My .40S&W goes for $10 for 50 rounds.

If I ever convience myself to buy one I dont think I would ever take it in the woods for deer hunting it would more or less just become a target gun. I have took a deer with a marlin camp carbine 9mm at roughly 60yds so with the rifeling I know it can take one down but id prolly just stick to my. 243 for deer but I can imagine that it would be a fun gun reguardless

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[DownrangeFuture]

I just buy the handloads at my range. They come in a plastic bag and all the proceeds go to shooting education for special needs/underpriveledged kids, etc. Towards the women classes too.

I just figured they cost more than normal, but since it was for a good cause, it didn't bother me. I usually sweep my brass and hand it back in to the office too. They shoot better than my defense rounds and are cast lead.

 

[FIZZER6]

I just buy the handloads at my range. They come in a plastic bag and all the proceeds go to shooting education for special needs/underpriveledged kids, etc. Towards the women classes too.

I just figured they cost more than normal, but since it was for a good cause, it didn't bother me. I usually sweep my brass and hand it back in to the office too. They shoot better than my defense rounds and are cast lead.

Lead bullets are almost zero bore wear compared to jacketed. The drawback is if they are not the correct hardness and exact diameter that your particular barrel likes they will leave lead streaks that are hard to remove...have to soak for a day with kroil and use a wire brush.

 

[DownrangeFuture]

If I ever convience myself to buy one I dont think I would ever take it in the woods for deer hunting it would more or less just become a target gun. I have took a deer with a marlin camp carbine 9mm at roughly 60yds so with the rifeling I know it can take one down but id prolly just stick to my. 243 for deer but I can imagine that it would be a fun gun reguardless

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I'm sure it would be. Sounds fun to me. I guess what it boils down to for me, is that if I'm only going to shoot at paper, there are much cheaper routes.

A Rem 770 action only is about $300. Then buy a premade precision varmint barrel for around $280, but a stock similar to the M1 sniper rifle. Put that together. A lot of places will true and mount the action to the barrel if you send it off at the time of order.

Then you just have to bed and mount the stock, and get a scope put on it. About $1200 for that process, and it'll shoot better than the AR-15, and the cost is less than a scopeless AR-15. Then use the money you'd spend on the conversion kit/scope on a reloading setup instead and then cost of rounds won't be as much as an issue.

If you spend a little more on the parts and setup, around $2000 total for the rifle, you can make a gun that will shoot 0.5 MOA or less with factory ammo. (MOA = minute of angle. 1 MOA roughly works out to 1" at 100yds, 2" at 200yds and so on.)


Of course, it's not an AR-15 though...

 

[DownrangeFuture]

Lead bullets are almost zero bore wear compared to jacketed. The drawback is if they are not the correct hardness and exact diameter that your particular barrel likes they will leave lead streaks that are hard to remove...have to soak for a day with kroil and use a wire brush.

I haven't run into that issue yet. Sometimes they're jacketed though. All their lead bullets seem to have some clear coating on the outside. And when I clean it, the second patch with solvent comes out clean 99% of the time. And the bore isn't shiny.

I'll keep it in mind though. I'm still learning this kind of stuff. The manual did say that the first 100 rounds should be jacketed, and gave an extensive cleaning procedure that I followed. 1 round, clean, 1 round, clean, etc. PITA, but that what the manufacturer said to do.

Of course, I bought the XD becase it's so rugged. I wish the 20,000 round torture test was still up on the web. It was a great read and makes the glock torture test look like a test for wusses. Glock accepts one or two failures with a cherry-picked gun in 1000 rounds of their test. This test was 20,000 and had 0 failures from a gun store bought XD. That should work for a daily carry. I've only pulled the trigger once and my gun didn't go bang. It went pop and the bullet basically just fell out of the gun onto the table. lol.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Lead bullets are almost zero bore wear compared to jacketed. The drawback is if they are not the correct hardness and exact diameter that your particular barrel likes they will leave lead streaks that are hard to remove...have to soak for a day with kroil and use a wire brush.

Omg someone else knows about the magical luqid in a can known as kroil!!!!!! I use that $hit for every thing it makes all other lubes seem like water

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[FIZZER6]

Omg someone else knows about the magical luqid in a can known as kroil!!!!!! I use that $hit for every thing it makes all other lubes seem like water

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Like the Franks Red Hot commercial "I put that sh!t on everything!".

I use Kroil for all my bore/action cleaning, followed by rem oil for rust protection. Kroil also works well for freeing stuck bolts on the car/bike/house...soak in kroil for 24 hours, then soak it again and put the torch on it...the heat draws the kroil in deeper and bam....you can break loose bolts you thought were going to need ground off and drilled out!

 

[ChevyFazer]

Like the Franks Red Hot commercial "I put that sh!t on everything!".

I use Kroil for all my bore/action cleaning, followed by rem oil for rust protection. Kroil also works well for freeing stuck bolts on the car/bike/house...soak in kroil for 24 hours, then soak it again and put the torch on it...the heat draws the kroil in deeper and bam....you can break loose bolts you thought were going to need ground off and drilled out!

Oh ya when I was doing commercial hvac work we bought it by the case and it never seiced to amaze me and you can actually see it working as it looks like it sucks right down into the threads of whatever your trying to free up. I would littlerly break free 3" sch 80 screw steam pipe that was 30yrs old, spray it on let it do its thing for a bit and spin it free, the only thing I have found that it will not free up is if someone frogot to antisieze stainless bolts with stainless nuts, if the threads have been mared up then its useless, but other then that its magic

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[04fizzer]

Oh ya when I was doing commercial hvac work we bought it by the case and it never seiced to amaze me and you can actually see it working as it looks like it sucks right down into the threads of whatever your trying to free up. I would littlerly break free 3" sch 80 screw steam pipe that was 30yrs old, spray it on let it do its thing for a bit and spin it free, the only thing I have found that it will not free up is if someone frogot to antisieze stainless bolts with stainless nuts, if the threads have been mared up then its useless, but other then that its magic

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There's not a thing on this planet that will help out with galled fasteners shy of breaking them off and grinding/drilling them out and starting from scratch.

 

[ChevyFazer]

My point exactly it will do everything except the impossible

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[DownrangeFuture]

Maybe it's my military background, but I just use CLP. It'll take the rust off a gun with a rag.

 

[ChevyFazer]

Give the kroil a try im sure you will love it it will do the same for rust and it is honestly the best stuff ive ever used. Its similar to pb blaster just 100 times better and stronger. You can buy it at pretty much any hvac supply house, baker, cc dicksion and places like that its pricey if I remember right it was $14 for a good size can but it will go a long way

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