Will Someone Ride my Bike?

[jb1390]

I need someone that owns an FZ6 to ride my bike for me and let me know if I'm crazy.

I live in Southeastern CT.

I picked up a 2007 fz6 that was rebuilt (rebuilt title) about a month ago. The story was that a car had backed over it, and the front end had to be replaced, and insurance totaled it. I was assured that the frame was fine.

I inspected for cracks, and it has none, and no welds. However, the frame seems to me to be bent slightly, and I think it affects handling in that:

It pulls to one side a little bit. Also, the handlebars shake if you let go of them at around 40-50 mph. It seems to steer easier one way than the other.

This is the only FZ6 that I have ever ridden, other than that, I've only ridden my GS500F that I sold to buy this bike, and cruisers.

I'm hoping that someone with a similar model can ride mine and compare the handling of it to their own bike, and let me know if they notice a significant difference.

 

[ebster1085]

I live in Manhattan but work in Stamford, CT. I ride my FZ to work every day. If you want to meet me at my office one day I would be happy to take it for a quick spin and let you know what I think.

 

[LERecords]

I need someone that owns an FZ6 to ride my bike for me and let me know if I'm crazy.

I live in Southeastern CT.

I picked up a 2007 fz6 that was rebuilt (rebuilt title) about a month ago. The story was that a car had backed over it, and the front end had to be replaced, and insurance totaled it. I was assured that the frame was fine.

I inspected for cracks, and it has none, and no welds. However, the frame seems to me to be bent slightly, and I think it affects handling in that:

It pulls to one side a little bit. Also, the handlebars shake if you let go of them at around 40-50 mph. It seems to steer easier one way than the other.

This is the only FZ6 that I have ever ridden, other than that, I've only ridden my GS500F that I sold to buy this bike, and cruisers.

I'm hoping that someone with a similar model can ride mine and compare the handling of it to their own bike, and let me know if they notice a significant difference.

I would bring it to either Excalibur motorsports or motorsport nation in Waterford. Explain to the tech what is wrong and ask them if they can take it out for a few mins. That would be a much better diagnosis of what could be wrong. I have done this at a few dealers when i originally got the bike and thought there was a problem.

otherwise your shaving handlebars could be a wheel weight or incorrect tire pressure. are the tires worn on one side??

id be more than happy to come down and meet up to check it out, but it would have to be later this week!! good luck!!:thumbup:

 

[LERecords]

2007 yamaha fz6

is this you selling? or is this the one you bought? or neither??

 

[ebster1085]

I would bring it to either Excalibur motorsports or motorsport nation in Waterford. Explain to the tech what is wrong and ask them if they can take it out for a few mins. That would be a much better diagnosis of what could be wrong. I have done this at a few dealers when i originally got the bike and thought there was a problem.

otherwise your shaving handlebars could be a wheel weight or incorrect tire pressure. are the tires worn on one side??

id be more than happy to come down and meet up to check it out, but it would have to be later this week!! good luck!!:thumbup:

I do agree that your best bet is to bring it to professionals.

 

[jb1390]

This is me on CL that is possibly hoping to sell it-my thoughts are that a $1000 dollar frame swap, compared to selling and buying another bike without a tweaked frame makes sense, if there is someone that wants it that isn't annoyed by the problem.

I am curious how much of a difference the tweaked frame makes though, before I commit to selling.

I feel weird about bringing it to a shop-because I have no intention of giving them business-if there is an issue, I will be fixing it myself.

I am 100% sure that any handling issues can be attributed to the frame.

The forks are straight, the triple tree is straight, and the frame measured NOT straight using many, many methods, including string and weights, carpenter level, using a straightedge front to back showing a slightly offset front wheel, etc.

The frame is definitely off-what I'm hoping to determine now, is whether the bikes handling is way off from what it should be for an identical model, and whether it is worth the $$ investment to either fix, or replace the bike at a loss.

I am ticked that the guy I bought it from is not willing to help financially, as he sold me the bike with the issue, claiming the frame was fine and had been checked. By the time I had enough miles on it to be positive that it could not be attributed to differences between the GS500F and the FZ6, I had no recourse.

 

[pookamatic]

Mine seems to have a slight drift to the left. If I lean to the right a bit, I can get it to steer the other direction so I never gave it a thought.

I'm new so I'll pose this to the experienced just in case... is it possible a fairly out-of-alignment rear wheel?

 

[ebster1085]

I would bring it to either Excalibur motorsports or motorsport nation in Waterford. Explain to the tech what is wrong and ask them if they can take it out for a few mins. That would be a much better diagnosis of what could be wrong. I have done this at a few dealers when i originally got the bike and thought there was a problem.

otherwise your shaving handlebars could be a wheel weight or incorrect tire pressure. are the tires worn on one side??

id be more than happy to come down and meet up to check it out, but it would have to be later this week!! good luck!!:thumbup:

I do agree that your best bet is to bring it to professionals.

 

[LERecords]

This is me on CL that is possibly hoping to sell it-my thoughts are that a $1000 dollar frame swap, compared to selling and buying another bike without a tweaked frame makes sense, if there is someone that wants it that isn't annoyed by the problem.

I am curious how much of a difference the tweaked frame makes though, before I commit to selling.

I feel weird about bringing it to a shop-because I have no intention of giving them business-if there is an issue, I will be fixing it myself.

I am 100% sure that any handling issues can be attributed to the frame.

The forks are straight, the triple tree is straight, and the frame measured NOT straight using many, many methods, including string and weights, carpenter level, using a straightedge front to back showing a slightly offset front wheel, etc.

The frame is definitely off-what I'm hoping to determine now, is whether the bikes handling is way off from what it should be for an identical model, and whether it is worth the $$ investment to either fix, or replace the bike at a loss.

I am ticked that the guy I bought it from is not willing to help financially, as he sold me the bike with the issue, claiming the frame was fine and had been checked. By the time I had enough miles on it to be positive that it could not be attributed to differences between the GS500F and the FZ6, I had no recourse.

well, at least you are being honest with your ad on craigslist as it sound like you bought it without knowing it was messed. I would take it to a dealer anyways and have them tell you that yes in fact something is wrong. you don't need to give them business, but they are professionals and would know better than someone without training.

its great that all of the parts are strait, but if you found out that the frame is not strait, then it would change the riding characteristics. By how much?? it would probably be different for every bike. But the fact your concerned about it means that it will probable need to be re-framed. i just wouldnt want to take a chance and find out that there is a major problem above 100mph....

I'm sure people have already told you, but good advise for any newbie or shopper... This is why i do not buy a bike with damage. You never know and that's why.. saving all the money in the world doesn't help if you have a bike that is unsafe to ride. :thumbup: good luck

 

[jb1390]

I definitely did not know there was a frame issue until it was purchased, and i had ridden it a while.

I noticed the handling characteristics first-and my initial reaction was that possibly I wasn't used to a center exhaust, or wider tires, or rake angle, etc.

I figured that checking the frame for straightness was one requirement that would need to be met to move from a salvage title to a rebuilt title-I guess I was wrong.

LErecords-I could probably meet you this weekend up towards Glastonbury if you have a couple minutes to ride the bike, and see if you think that it is different enough from yours to make the investment in new bike/frame swap worth it.

The other advantage to the frame swap is that it would come with a clear title and new VIN-on the other hand, if someone is interested in this bike in its current condition (which isn't terribly bad, I had it to 130 indicated, but didn't feel comfortable taking it further), I could get another bike without the couple dents for similar $$ invested, and much less time.

If no one wants it for $2500, then I will probably do a frame swap this winter, or ride it like it is if it's not terrible.

 

[sloring]

coudl be the fairing stay is bent. Easy fix.

 

[TownsendsFJR1300]

coudl be the fairing stay is bent. Easy fix.

A bent fairing stay would make the front end look offset/bent but wouldn't affect handling as noted...

It wouldn't hurt for a test ride however I do agree, a professional will find something you may miss.

Back in the late 80's, I had a wreck on my 1985 Honda VT1100, not real bad, I could ride it home. Their insurance company looked at the bike and found a crack in the steel frame, the main steering tube your steering bearings would reside in. The bike was totaled and unknowlingly, very unsafe.

 

[FinalImpact]

IMO 99% of the time a bent frame isn't going to make it shake. Bent wheels, bad tires, bad balance all attribute to a shake.

As for the frame, it won't bend much as it it'll crack being made of cast aluminum. However the aft section being steel will bend but it won't affect the ride it just holds the tail and seat. As you must have notice many parts of the frame are not symmetrical so it would be difficult to measure most sections.

Specifically what do you think is NOT true regarding the frames alignment? I am not talking about bent forks and a tweaked swing arm but feel free to mention them if they are. Rear wheel alignment will make it crab walk if its far enough out of align. Alignment won't cause a shake until its wrecked a set of tires by causing them to scallop.

Automotive shops have car guides that tell down to the 0.01" locations of alignment holes, alignment pins (gauge holes), suspension mounts, engine mounts, door openings, roof height, pillar angles, you name it - the whole X, Y, Z coordinates of all mounting points. The Book with this info would be priceless if you could find it. For a bike; as long as the HEAD mount aligns with the swing arm mount a basic 90 degree coordinate; the frame is likely intact as far as handling is concerned.
You have to independently check the forks, swing arm and rear wheel are in alignment though.

 

[LERecords]

I definitely did not know there was a frame issue until it was purchased, and i had ridden it a while.

I noticed the handling characteristics first-and my initial reaction was that possibly I wasn't used to a center exhaust, or wider tires, or rake angle, etc.

I figured that checking the frame for straightness was one requirement that would need to be met to move from a salvage title to a rebuilt title-I guess I was wrong.

LErecords-I could probably meet you this weekend up towards Glastonbury if you have a couple minutes to ride the bike, and see if you think that it is different enough from yours to make the investment in new bike/frame swap worth it.

The other advantage to the frame swap is that it would come with a clear title and new VIN-on the other hand, if someone is interested in this bike in its current condition (which isn't terribly bad, I had it to 130 indicated, but didn't feel comfortable taking it further), I could get another bike without the couple dents for similar $$ invested, and much less time.

If no one wants it for $2500, then I will probably do a frame swap this winter, or ride it like it is if it's not terrible.

i cant this weekend as i am headed to nc for all of next week (leave on friday), but i might be able to meet up with you later this week... ill keep you posted

 

[FinalImpact]

IMO 99% of the time a bent frame isn't going to make it shake. Bent wheels, bad tires, bad balance all attribute to a shake.

As for the frame, it won't bend much as it it'll crack being made of cast aluminum. However the aft section being steel will bend but it won't affect the ride it just holds the tail and seat. As you must have notice many parts of the frame are not symmetrical so it would be difficult to measure most sections.

Specifically what do you think is NOT true regarding the frames alignment? I am not talking about bent forks and a tweaked swing arm but feel free to mention them if they are. Rear wheel alignment will make it crab walk if its far enough out of align. Alignment won't cause a shake until its wrecked a set of tires by causing them to scallop.

Automotive shops have car guides that tell down to the 0.01" locations of alignment holes, alignment pins (gauge holes), suspension mounts, engine mounts, door openings, roof height, pillar angles, you name it - the whole X, Y, Z coordinates of all mounting points. The Book with this info would be priceless if you could find it. For a bike; as long as the HEAD mount aligns with the swing arm mount a basic 90 degree coordinate; the frame is likely intact as far as handling is concerned.
You have to independently check the forks, swing arm and rear wheel are in alignment though.

FWIW: bent handlebars will really screw up most people. The bikes are OK and tracking correctly but our norm is to straighten the handle bars while riding so they look proper from the seat but then you drive off the road.

You might double check those too. Put something straight across the clamp area and measure back to the bar ends. They should be equal.

 

[RJ2112]

A bent fairing stay would make the front end look offset/bent but wouldn't affect handling as noted...

It wouldn't hurt for a test ride however I do agree, a professional will find something you may miss.

Back in the late 80's, I had a wreck on my 1985 Honda VT1100, not real bad, I could ride it home. Their insurance company looked at the bike and found a crack in the steel frame, the main steering tube your steering bearings would reside in. The bike was totaled and unknowlingly, very unsafe.

^^^^+1

Internet opinions are worth what you pay for them.

I'll 3rd or 4th the motion... take the bike to the shop, and ask them to evaluate the issue. Negotiate the price of the inspection before you commit to it.

I'm betting on the fork tubes being out of alignment, or potentially also having sh*tty oil in them. If someone whacked the front end hard enough to need to replace parts and the bike is a salvage, they almost certainly did the work on the cheap with used parts. Possibly also a different wheel assembly.

As has been said, frame failure on these bikes is pretty evident, and pretty unusual. Typically, the motor mounts tear off due to sliders being installed. Occasionally, someone swaps out a frame, and messes up the torque on the frame bolts, and sets up stress on the frame which leads to cracking.

 

[jb1390]

I checked with a shop early on to figure out what to do. Motorsports nation in plainfield wanted around 150 to check the frame-which would only tell me if something is wrong. He said if the frame needed replacing and they do it, the inspection could be free. However, that would be several thousand dollars, and I would do the work myself.

I am a mechanical engineer, and I am confident in my ability to measure things.

The bike was rebuilt because a car backed over it. This type of loading on the frame could cause bending, where high speed collision with a stationary object would be more likely to cause cracking. This is why a crash normally does not result in a bent frame-but it can happen without cracking.

For those wondering, here is how I know the frame is bent.

I ran a straight edge from the back tire, contacting two points on the tire, up past the front of the bike on both sides. The front tire was offset more than an inch.

I checked, using a carpenters level, the level up and down of the rear tire while on concrete, and the center stand. It was pretty close to level. This indicates the swingarm is good (or at least very close)

The front is not close to level-it is very evident that it is not straight.

I pulled the fuel tank, and front fairings, and removed the entire triple tree.

I placed a level across the center of the frame, just behind the fuel tank, below the seat (seat was removed). It was level. (also verifies that the swingarm is ok, as the level here matched the rear wheel, at 90 degrees)

I measured many places on the frame near the main steering tube, and got similar measurements (NOT level) in all cases.

1. Allen head bolts on left side when facing the bike-across all three bolts
2. Flat spot on frame behind steering tube.
3. top of steering tube
4. Put forks and brand new triple tree (checked to be straight on flat surface) back on without the upper triple. Checked level across lower triple tree
5. Flat spot on steering stops (vertical)
6. Front tire while trying to adjust as much as possible to get it straight up and down. Could not get it.
7. Reinstalled everything, and front tire was still off to one side.
8. Adjusted the rear tire in case lines on swingarm were off by as much as one notch-still not sufficient, and did not match all my other measurements.
9. The front tire is worn more on one side than the other-and the rear is pretty even.

I know that a shop with the ability to check to thousandths of inches is required to tell the difference between a slightly bent frame and a straight frame-but mine is off by enough that I do not need that precision.

I have checked the entire outer surface of the frame (could not check entire inner without removing the frame in its entirety), and I am confident that there are no cracks. I do not want to pay money for a shop to tell me what I already know-what I want to do at this point is find out how much performance I am losing in the turns, and at high speed.

The bike does not shake until I'm going pretty quick, or unless I take my hands off the bars. I can attribute this pretty easily to 2 gyroscopes spinning on different planes. I also wouldn't be surprised if the tires have worn a little funny. These things wouldn't bother me terribly, if the bike is performing to 80-90% if what it should-but I've never ridden another fz6 so I can't know for sure.

 

[Black_Cirrus]

Ok just trying to get this clear in my head so bear with me you say the front tire is off an inch from the rear is it like this = _ or more like this = / when it should be like this = -, I bought my first bike damaged and had an experienced rider take it for a spin and still upon tear down was shocked how poorly the cobbled it together. But after some work it rides pretty well now. Sold it to a friend with no fears. That bike shaked as soon as you let of the bars going any real speed cause the front tire was miss aligned. I did a alignment of the rear tire, tape measure from the swing arm pivot to the rear axle to be sure it was true, It was on the lines which was like 1/16 off, and then checked the front forks they were off. took a piece of glass 3-4 inches by wide enough to cross the forks and make sure it wont rock. Also did you check the front forks for and bend when you had them out, a guy here not long ago found out his had a gradual bend of almost a 1/4" in his that would make it do weird things.

 

[jb1390]

I checked the forks by holding them against each other, and turning one fork at a time. No daylight between them, they are both straight.

I also forgot to mention-I tried turning the forks around 180 degrees, and installing them on the wrong side, with the tire facing the wrong direction. If it was bent forks, this would flip the direction that the tire was off level-and it did not change anything.

The tires are most definitely like this (Front _ = Back) It should be - =

If the measurement were real small-like 1/4", I could attribute it to rudimentary measuring methods, wheel not perfectly straight, etc, but the difference between the sides is significant enough that I am positive I am correct about it being off.

I also found through this process that the lower triple tree was crooked-and replacing that helped some(probably somewhere around 50% improvement in the pull). I am not terribly unhappy with the handling of the bike now-I am just wondering what I am missing compared to one with no issues.

 

[Tailgate]

I'm not a big fan of the "professionals" helping you with the problem. I would rather ride an identical model, etc., to get a comparison. I remember a problem once with a car suspension issue. I brought the vehicle to several alignment shops (and of course paid a fee) complaining about a "loose feeling" suspension. They all said, "No, it's fine, test drove, etc. and it's fine!" Months later, while underneath the vehicle, I happen to discover a very loose suspension component and tightened it up. Voila! Instant dramatic improvement. It's like what another FZ6-Forum poster (his handle escapes me) says something to the effect: "Why let some stranger molest your bike, do it yourself!" If you do take it to a professional, don't pre-mention any problem, just ask for an evaluation.