Vibration! A cure for bad vibrations, Spark Plug Caps!!

[FinalImpact]

Another WIN after a long battle.... Just saying if your bike has bad vibes, it should be on the top of the list for the cause. Key note is its present from 4K on up. Mine was always worse at Cruise speed or about 4.8 to 5K. From post: http://www.600riders.com/forum/fz6-mods/54393-vibration-help-2.html

Woo Hooooooooooo!!!!

Finally I've pinned down the vibes! I redid the spark plug caps again and was a bit more aggressive, cutting back the spark plug leads by a good 15mm or more. Also I tried using a wrap of duct tape over the end of the lead, about 1cm wide. Only 2 of the leads were loose (2 and 3), so I just concentrated on them. I also pulled the caps apart and checked the resistance. One had very high resistance so it was cleaned up until the spring made good electrical contact with the brass insert inside the cap. Both caps were in spec so I put it all back together.

I took it out for a spin just after a rain shower, and was amazed! The vibes from 5,000rpm was gone, and it revved cleanly up to 11. I didn't punch it any higher, I was just happy that I don't have to keep looking for the problem. Half way through my ride I got caught in the rain and wind again... my legs were soaked and I was being blown around, but I couldn't wipe the smile off my face! The vibes were much reduced, back to how the bike used to be.

If the vibes come back I can go straight to the spark plug leads and redo them. Not sure how much more I can cut off them, so I've been considering the options of new coils.
The spark plug leads appear to have a plastic clip where they join with the coils, but I haven't seen anyone remove the leads. I hunt around on the net shows that the FZ6R/XJ6 coils have the same primary and secondary resistance as the FZ6, but being a different frame, they could mount in a different position and the leads might be shorter than the FZ6. The photos on ebay ( Yamaha XJ6 XJ6N XJ6F Diversion Ignition Coils Plug Caps LOW Mileage 2009 2012 | eBay ) show a different cap design, but after reading up on the service manual in the electical section it talks about checking the cap resistance, so they must still be a screw on design like ours.

A big thanks to everyone who has helped, especially FinalImpact and TownsendsFJR1300, on this thread and the many other threads on the forum!

 

[Ninja Apprentice]

I just wanted to stop in and post my findings on my 07 Fz6 with 21,000 miles.

Vibrations in the bars was bad and driving me nuts so I decided to do this last weekend. All four caps were loose and twisted off with relative ease. I checked the resistance on all four caps and this was the result.

Cylinder 1 9.52
Cylinder 2 9.36
Cylinder 3 9.84
Cylinder 4 9.64

I pulled cap 3 apart and tried to clean it up to drop the resistance and it dropped to 9.80. I don't see that as much of a gain but I'll take what I can get.

I cut off a 1/4 inch on all the wires and spread them out, changed the plugs to CR9E's and gapped them to .024.

I am happy to report vibrations have dropped to minimal levels now in the bars, throttle response is way better and I am HOPING my fuel mileage has gone up a tick in the process. I will report after a tank or two gets ran threw the tank.

FinalImpact Thank you for the information to fix this issue!

Next thing I need is front pads, front rotors, and a couple of caliper rebuild kits.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

So I changed my plugs yesterday and I tightened my HTLs down as well. I also used a zip tie to hold the cables in place. I just went for a quick ride, and have yet to really test out any changes in vibes, but the cables were definitely loose (almost a full turn for each of the wires).

 

[FinalImpact]

So I changed my plugs yesterday and I tightened my HTLs down as well. I also used a zip tie to hold the cables in place. I just went for a quick ride, and have yet to really test out any changes in vibes, but the cables were definitely loose (almost a full turn for each of the wires).

Did it have Vibes from 4k on up?

How's that ignition advance mod working out? Any comments?

 

[ChanceCoats123]

Did it have Vibes from 4k on up?

How's that ignition advance mod working out? Any comments?

It did have slight vibes (never anything which pushed me to pursue the issue, but enough to notice). I've not tested it out just yet though.

The ignition mod has been fantastic. Nose likes to come up in second gear, and that never happened before.

 

[FinalImpact]

It did have slight vibes (never anything which pushed me to pursue the issue, but enough to notice). I've not tested it out just yet though.

The ignition mod has been fantastic. Nose likes to come up in second gear, and that never happened before.

haha! Love it! ^^ Worth every penny you spent right! (ZERO pennies spent! lol)

I'm going to borrow your quote for another thread!

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I figured I would update this thread since I've ridden the bike more now. It's fantastic! I don't know why I waited so long ( I guess I was waiting to change my plugs, but I don't know why I waited for that!). There are some slight vibes around 5500 rpm, but they are barely noticeable compared to before, and the other range of vibes disappeared. If you're waiting to do this, then do it today. Add the zip ties to keep everything in place, and you'll be set!

 

[FinalImpact]

UPDATE: Anyone wanting to replace the wires, we'll I'll state that there are some obstacles!
The OEM wires are 7.5mm.

NGK, ACCEL, MALLORY, MSD, and several others I called do not carry or have access to 7.5mm solid core wire. 7.0mm, 8.0mm, 8.8mm, and 10.0mm are available but read the fine print as 7.5 is scarce.

Next issue: the wire to coil connection appears as a one time use compression fitting. Without doing some level of unknown damage, removing the wire retainer is no easy task and the retainer will be damaged.

Options are go for gusto if its real bad or replace the coils that have new wires!

Compression bushing is pressed into coil and resists removal:

Cap screw:

Cap Internals: After cleaning and assembly all four caps measured 10,77X ohms

 

[buzzbomb]

UPDATE: Anyone wanting to replace the wires, we'll I'll state that there are some obstacles!
The OEM wires are 7.5mm.

NGK, ACCEL, MALLORY, MSD, and several others I called do not carry or have access to 7.5mm solid core wire. 7.0mm, 8.0mm, 8.8mm, and 10.0mm are available but read the fine print as 7.5 is scarce.

Next issue: the wire to coil connection appears as a one time use compression fitting. Without doing some level of unknown damage, removing the wire retainer is no easy task and the retainer will be damaged.

Options are go for gusto if its real bad or replace the coils that have new wires!

Compression bushing is pressed into coil and resists removal:

I've been watching and considering this, as my leads have had it, and at the rate I'm going if I cut any more off I'll have to mount the coils on the rocker cover!
Seriously tho,a google search reveals a lot of other bikes and owners have the same issues with spark plug leads, on bikes a lot older than ours. Various makers have different methods of attaching the HT lead to the coil. One brand I read about (an old Suzuki I believe) required the owner to use epoxy to glue/moisture seal the lead into the coil, as this was the way Mr Suzuki did it originally for that bike.

I found a couple of images from fleabay from someone selling the leads and coils seperately. In one photo you can make out the impressions left in the lead from the (from all reports quite fragile) retaining tag that digs into the lead, holding it in place.

I'm intrigued with the idea of being able to replace the leads completely with something a bit longer (at least as long as the originals, maybe a bit longer) but coming up with an idea of reliably holding the HT leads in the coils, and not have issues with water ingress is the current holdup. I'd love to jump in and do this, but until I get a spare couple of coils to work on, I'll be bikeless if it doesn't work. I've got some new 7mm HT lead waiting to be cut and shut, but I will be patient and see if I can get some second hand coils.


Ignition Coils Yamaha Fazer 600 FZ6 5VX 2005 | eBay
Spark Plug Caps Yamaha Fazer 600 FZ6 5VX 2005 | eBay

 

[FinalImpact]

FWIW: one source has (so I'm told) 7.5mm stranded copper solid core wire. Its Standard Motors Inc.
Problem is it's special order and bulk is 100ft. Because its low volume/special order, they want you to buy the whole roll @$2.25ft... -sigh- it is red tho to match the bleading of your wallet!

The 7.0mm PN: CC7N CC7N bulk ignition wire

EDIT 7.5mm wire found but not solid core:
search Bulk ignition wire

And ya, it looks like the retainer placed a nice bite in the wire.
I have both 7 and 8mm wire and the first layer of core insulation material is much firmer than that found on the OEM wire. So much so, that an awl needs to be inserted into the core first to stretch the core.
Accel 8mm has 24 strands
Standard Motor, Inc. 7mm has 18 strands

Keep me posted. And those coils with the wires out. Not sure what you use to retain the wires if the compression clamps are destroyed!

 

[FinalImpact]

PURE EVIL best Describes the objects below!

Non-conductive silicone and compression fitting:

Looking into the coil Secondary output connector:

I replaced the coils with fleebay $29 shipped (Coils, Wires, & Caps). The Caps tightened to the wires with a half twist each, the internal ceramic resistor all measured OK ([email protected] and 1 @10.3Kohms). I pulled the battery tray, connected the the "replacement coils" to the harness, and went into diagnostic mode #30 & #31, toggled the Run/Stop switch and verified they could jump a 0.040" gap (Diag mode fires 5 pulses to the coil to verify operation). They both did. So I installed them!

Once again the vibes are GONE! Those original coils/wires have and issues and just induce issues in shorter and shorter time spans. I literally just pulled the wires until they came out of the coils. It left a bunch of what appears to be non-conductive silicone behind (infinite resistance). Its pretty firm and hard to dig out of the coil body. It doesn't look like it but there is a brass post in there. One of the coils wires was maybe 1/2 way seated to max depth, the the other 3/4 of the ways.

Let this be warning to others that you may need to be persistent ESPECIALLY IF YOU KNOW IT CAN OPERATE VIBRATION FREE! This has to be 6th or 7th time I've had to address this issue as it makes me hate the bike. Needless to say the parts installed are from an 06.

Don't GIVE UP! They CAN BE FIXED!

 

[corvius]

omg...which ebay set did you buy? and did you indeed mean they are for a 2006 or did you mean 2008?

 

[FinalImpact]

The $29 ones! :thumbup:
Coils, wires, caps, shipped for $29 from Florida! They were from an 06 and installed on an 08.
There were some 08 ones on there and they were closer, but this thread and my inbox hint that 08s may not be of the same integritty as the early ones. So thats how this all came to be. I wanted a back up plan so I could get destructive and get the old wires out! Done!

 

[corvius]

Oh I thought you meant new, aftermarket ones. You mean used ones from an 06

 

[corvius]

Final, you said you verified the new coils could jump a 0.04 gap, are you talking about the spark plugs gap? I thought or gap was closer to 0.024-0.028

 

[FinalImpact]

That is correct.
Free air gap imposes no load. The load of combustion + AFR increases the energy demand on the coils to jump the plugs gap. A quick test is to make a bigger gap for testing purposes in free air. Basically it made me feel better! Its ran through some heat cycles and seems to be ok. I guess I got lucky.
Cleaned up my old coils last night getting the silicon out. Now to find 7.5mm wires....

 

[corvius]

I'm starting to despair. Only thing left is to change plug type from OEM cr9ek. I just swapped coils and leads and caps with a set from an 06 and there's no change.

I feel like the bike shouldn't vibrate like this

 

[FinalImpact]

I'm starting to despair. Only thing left is to change plug type from OEM cr9ek. I just swapped coils and leads and caps with a set from an 06 and there's no change.

I feel like the bike shouldn't vibrate like this

The engine is going to make some vibes. The difference is are they high frequency inducing a resonate harmonic or just normal vibes? The normal vibes don't bother us people much, its when they multiply and resonate.
Please detail everything you have done so far.

Things that matter and have impacted that most think shouldn't matter (*):
* ignition system
* oil, as it breaks down can induce vibes
* exhaust mounting
- engine mounting, although 5ft/lbs of fastener tension is not likely an issue.
- engine centered in mounting holes.
- fuel quality

Mind you, just because its used and different doesn't mean its 100% functional. I just happen to get lucky (I think).

 

[corvius]

Ok so I can live with the vibes now, maybe they're normal at this point? It is a high frequency buzzing that really starts around 6k and stays constant until redline. It's like one you get into the power band a little buzzer turns on. When you say your vibes are gone, is your bike as smooth at 8k as it is at 4k? When I get to my computer I'll type out what I've done so far.

 

[FinalImpact]

Well its very busy but its smooth in any gear that I can clearly see through my fairing mounted mirrors. My problem area always started mid 4K....

I've always meant to set a glass of water on the frame somewhere and static rev it to see if the water dances and which way. I wish I'd done it before fixing it as it could be a good indicator as to OK, mild, annoying, or BAD! Perhaps the area behind the tank mount where the seat intersects....

Give it try and see what it does although it may not be fair test on side or center stand.