Shawn
Junior Member
Watched a show where they said upshifting without the clutch is easy to do on newer sport bikes. Anyone have any experience with this on the FZ ?
Upshifting without the clutch
- Thread starter Shawn
- Start date
Yes. It's a bit clunky going from first to second (I assume because you're also going thru Neutral, or maybe I'm doing it wrong), but from 2nd thru 6th it's usually how I do it anymore. As you reach the top of your current gear, just apply light upward pressure on the shifter and drop your throttle a bit, she slips right in!
+1! I don't do it from 1st to 2nd, but for all other gears up, it's perfectly smooth.
Cloned
Tiger Trainer
I do it all the time when I'm accelerating hard or on the freeway. Just preload the shifter, then flick the throttle a little bit. After some practice you'll get to the point where you can't even feel the shift.
Pauly_V
Junior Member
I go "clutchless" on the upshifts and the downshifts. That's right... I'm a friggin' gear grinding maniac!!
SRSLY... on teh back roads I rarely use the clutch.. up or down.
SRSLY... on teh back roads I rarely use the clutch.. up or down.
stevesnj
Junior Member
Actually these wet clutches can take some abuse, low oil is an issue more so than clutch less shifting.
malicious439
The Technician
Well I tried this out tonight and it worked great! Shifts up feel great, is there any potential damage? Can this ability be attributed to the very small clutch engagement or can a lot of bikes do this?
rpereira
Junior Member
I have done it, only once though, 1st to 2nd .... Was really smooth .... I was quite surprised though as I just plain forgot to use the clutch .... :/
Shawn
Junior Member
Is there a particular RPM that the bikes seem to shift more smoothly when not using the clutch ?
brad81987
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I shift clutchless from time to time, depends on my mood I guess. I never do it from 1st to 2nd, too rough going through neutral. I find it works much smoother if you do it at higher RPMs (6-7k +) and under moderate to heavy acceleration. For riding really lightly, clutched is still smoother.
There is no particular RPM where clutchless shifting is at its smoothest, from my experience. It's all about matching engine speed to gear.
So if you're at 12k rpm and wish to shift up, the "smooth" shift point would be at somewhere around 10k rpm. If you're at 6k rpm and wish to shift up, the "smooth" point would be at about 4.5k rpm.
It's just a matter of rolling off the throttle just the right amount as you preload the shifter.
DMP84
Junior Member
Hey Erci,
very off topic but do you ride a black FZ6?
very off topic but do you ride a black FZ6?
Replied to PM.
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I do it all the time, down too, just not 1-2 and 2-1.
bane
Boss
my dear friends,
this will definitely stay a mystery to me... will some "expert" resolve it and give us proper guide... someone says it's not recommended, someone strongly recommend it.. definitely, most of a riders recommend it from 2 to 6th gear and not for downshifting..
One is shore, clutchless upshifting is smooth and most probably will never have negativ impact on gearbox and clutch...
will I ever learn
this will definitely stay a mystery to me... will some "expert" resolve it and give us proper guide... someone says it's not recommended, someone strongly recommend it.. definitely, most of a riders recommend it from 2 to 6th gear and not for downshifting..
One is shore, clutchless upshifting is smooth and most probably will never have negativ impact on gearbox and clutch...
will I ever learn
discgolfdude
Junior Member
Thanks for the info, I'm going to have to give shifting without the clutch a try.
OneTrack
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I started clutchless shifting on my FZ6 out of necessity, particularly on longer trips that involved a LOT of shifting, which our bikes seem to require. It does save the clutch are/hand from getting tired, cramped and sore, particularly when you get over 60. That's 60 years, not MPH.
LC77
Junior Member
i started upshifting after a racer friend of mine told me it was ok to do it. It was really easy and smooth. Not found any specific rpm which would be best, i think it is all in the wrist...
Never tried downshift.
Never tried downshift.
I guess a good way to answer this is, has anyone on this board had to rebuild their clutch/gearbox? I've been here since '07 and can't remember anyone doing that...
Generally, if you misuse something mechanical it'll jump, kick, squeak, backfire, grind, disintegrate, shear, knock, hum, vibrate, stop, fly off, scream, jerk, or shatter; if you can shift without them happening you're probably okay. :thumbup:
If not, well, I'll personally pay for your... whups, there's the phone, gotta go! :BLAA: :BLAA: :BLAA:
Mr Buck
Born on the wrong side
Source www.sportrider.com
Clutchless Shifting - Riding Skills Series
Upshifting Without A Clutch
From the April, 2007 issue of Sport Rider
Once its fundamental theory is understood, the skill of clutchless upshifting is typically mastered in a matter of minutes. For first-timers, snicking slickly through the gears without the clutch brings a smile of wonderment, as if they just learned a new magic trick.
Surprisingly, the last time this shifting trick was discussed in these pages it brought about a storm of controversy that continues through Sport Rider correspondence to this day. It's actually a time-honored technique that I first read about in a Motorcyclist story about Eddie Lawson more than two decades ago. After that story was published, Lawson earned four Grand Prix world championships, all before the rider-aid wizardry of electric shifters, which, by the way, use the same basic principles discussed here. Anyone who still doubts the advantages of clutchless upshifting is welcome argue with Mr. Lawson, though last time I checked he still isn't one to lose at anything.
Though it's difficult for many to initially accept, upshifting without a clutch is in many ways simpler than the conventional pull-the-clutch-in-while-rolling-off-the-gas, shift-up,let-the-clutch-out-smoothly-while-rolling-back-on-the-gas method most of us grew up using. Instead, simply preload the shifter lightly, then quickly let off the throttle slightly and then back on and-presto-you're in the next gear. Done correctly, a clutchless upshift sounds and feels like that of an electric shifter, and no, it's not abusive to the transmission; countless years of the SR staff racing their personal bikes stand witness to this. The key qualifier here is the phrase "done correctly." Fortunately this is as easy to feel as it is to learn.
First, understand that while accelerating, even mildly, you're able to lightly lift (preload) the shift lever with your toe without causing the transmission to shift or pop out of gear. By lightly, we mean perhaps two to four pounds of upward pressure for a moment before your desired shift point. Then, as the tach sweeps past the desired rpm, simply crack the throttle slightly off, then instantly back on, as quick as a blink of an eye. Don't fully shut the throttle; only close it enough to momentarily reverse the acceleration load on the transmission before returning the twist grip to its original position. Remember to release the pressure on the shift lever after the shift to allow the mechanism to ratchet back and index the next gear.
As Kevin Schwantz teaches at his school, clutchless upshifting doesn't have to be under full-throttle acceleration and, in fact, is best learned under moderate acceleration at partial throttle. Once mastered, however, you'll find that it works at any speed and any rpm. Initially, it takes a bit of trial and error to get the timing and feel for it, and different bikes may require slightly different amounts of throttle change or quickness of movement, but you'll know when you hit the right combination. The shifter should snick into gear with a smooth movement and no notchiness. The bike's acceleration between gears should be virtually seamless.
All this clutch-free shifting business isn't just to impress your friends or passenger, however; there are several tangible advantages as well. As a man who earned his living (and the '93 world championship) wrestling savagely unsophisticated two-stroke GP bikes before the days of engine-management software, Schwantz is able to demonstrate that a well-executed clutchless upshift upsets the bike less than a conventional shift. In my 26 years of experience, I miss fewer shifts when I shift without using the lever on my left handlebar. Exiting right-hand corners with my body hung off to the inside (I'm talking track riding here, since, for several reasons, I do not hang off on the street), it's far easier to just snap back the throttle for an upshift than to make sure my left forearm is in position to allow my fingers to properly manipulate the clutch as well. It's simply one less thing to do, one less thing to think about and one less thing to go wrong.
We're not saying you should forget about using the clutch entirely; there are plenty of situations where it's likely to be to your advantage. But at the same time, clutchless upshifting is a skill worth learning. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't come to you on your first, second or 16th time. Practice it in a parking lot, or on a remote stretch of straight road, at moderate speed in an environment that allows you to give this novel technique your full attention and, by trial and error, varying the quickness and amount of throttle movement, it will come to you. When the situations warrant it, using your new shifting skill should give you all the satisfaction of pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
EDIT: Down shifting works just as good, providing you're not riding a v-twin, the torque of those motors tends to lock the back wheel up, I tried all gears at high and low speeds on my VN750, and with it being a shaft drive, there was no play at all. Had some good, and some down right scary times on that bike
Clutchless Shifting - Riding Skills Series
Upshifting Without A Clutch
From the April, 2007 issue of Sport Rider
Once its fundamental theory is understood, the skill of clutchless upshifting is typically mastered in a matter of minutes. For first-timers, snicking slickly through the gears without the clutch brings a smile of wonderment, as if they just learned a new magic trick.
Surprisingly, the last time this shifting trick was discussed in these pages it brought about a storm of controversy that continues through Sport Rider correspondence to this day. It's actually a time-honored technique that I first read about in a Motorcyclist story about Eddie Lawson more than two decades ago. After that story was published, Lawson earned four Grand Prix world championships, all before the rider-aid wizardry of electric shifters, which, by the way, use the same basic principles discussed here. Anyone who still doubts the advantages of clutchless upshifting is welcome argue with Mr. Lawson, though last time I checked he still isn't one to lose at anything.
Though it's difficult for many to initially accept, upshifting without a clutch is in many ways simpler than the conventional pull-the-clutch-in-while-rolling-off-the-gas, shift-up,let-the-clutch-out-smoothly-while-rolling-back-on-the-gas method most of us grew up using. Instead, simply preload the shifter lightly, then quickly let off the throttle slightly and then back on and-presto-you're in the next gear. Done correctly, a clutchless upshift sounds and feels like that of an electric shifter, and no, it's not abusive to the transmission; countless years of the SR staff racing their personal bikes stand witness to this. The key qualifier here is the phrase "done correctly." Fortunately this is as easy to feel as it is to learn.
First, understand that while accelerating, even mildly, you're able to lightly lift (preload) the shift lever with your toe without causing the transmission to shift or pop out of gear. By lightly, we mean perhaps two to four pounds of upward pressure for a moment before your desired shift point. Then, as the tach sweeps past the desired rpm, simply crack the throttle slightly off, then instantly back on, as quick as a blink of an eye. Don't fully shut the throttle; only close it enough to momentarily reverse the acceleration load on the transmission before returning the twist grip to its original position. Remember to release the pressure on the shift lever after the shift to allow the mechanism to ratchet back and index the next gear.
As Kevin Schwantz teaches at his school, clutchless upshifting doesn't have to be under full-throttle acceleration and, in fact, is best learned under moderate acceleration at partial throttle. Once mastered, however, you'll find that it works at any speed and any rpm. Initially, it takes a bit of trial and error to get the timing and feel for it, and different bikes may require slightly different amounts of throttle change or quickness of movement, but you'll know when you hit the right combination. The shifter should snick into gear with a smooth movement and no notchiness. The bike's acceleration between gears should be virtually seamless.
All this clutch-free shifting business isn't just to impress your friends or passenger, however; there are several tangible advantages as well. As a man who earned his living (and the '93 world championship) wrestling savagely unsophisticated two-stroke GP bikes before the days of engine-management software, Schwantz is able to demonstrate that a well-executed clutchless upshift upsets the bike less than a conventional shift. In my 26 years of experience, I miss fewer shifts when I shift without using the lever on my left handlebar. Exiting right-hand corners with my body hung off to the inside (I'm talking track riding here, since, for several reasons, I do not hang off on the street), it's far easier to just snap back the throttle for an upshift than to make sure my left forearm is in position to allow my fingers to properly manipulate the clutch as well. It's simply one less thing to do, one less thing to think about and one less thing to go wrong.
We're not saying you should forget about using the clutch entirely; there are plenty of situations where it's likely to be to your advantage. But at the same time, clutchless upshifting is a skill worth learning. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't come to you on your first, second or 16th time. Practice it in a parking lot, or on a remote stretch of straight road, at moderate speed in an environment that allows you to give this novel technique your full attention and, by trial and error, varying the quickness and amount of throttle movement, it will come to you. When the situations warrant it, using your new shifting skill should give you all the satisfaction of pulling a rabbit out of a hat.
EDIT: Down shifting works just as good, providing you're not riding a v-twin, the torque of those motors tends to lock the back wheel up, I tried all gears at high and low speeds on my VN750, and with it being a shaft drive, there was no play at all. Had some good, and some down right scary times on that bike
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