Unbelievable...

[McLovin]

Well sir, I must whole-heartedly disagree, as I have NEVER met anyone that I consider to be a good rider who doesn't understand the concept of countersteering.

Then again, perhaps my definition of a "good" rider is far different from yours...

Well..I agree with both of you guys on some level..I think what david is saying is true because there wasnt always riding books or enough science to explain the science of riding, but there was great riders..On the other hand, those excellenty ignorant riders are probably in love with riding and naturally somewhat talented. An average rider with right education in todays world could easily achieve the same or higher riding skill level in a much shorter amount of time. Same thing with the guitar. I never took classes and i play pretty decent. Can a 14 year old who took classes every week since the age of 12 kick my ass? Absolutely.

 

[Wavex]

Then again, perhaps my definition of a "good" rider is far different from yours...

That's probably it! :thumbup:

 

[Dunno]

Maybe your friend misunderstood?

This is the most plausible explanation :thumbup: Old mate has his wires crossed & has confused himself during the lesson.

If the guy was taught to use only the front brake & ignore the rear except in case of emergency its sounds like sound advice to offer a novice rider.

Learn to use the front brake effectively ......................................... when the rear wheel is in the air then practice using the rear brake

 

[dean2287]

Maybe the instructor wanted everybody to keep the rear brake clamped so when they juiced it and dropped the clutch too quickly they wouldn't go crashing into each other...

 

[wolfe1down]

If the guy was taught to use only the front brake & ignore the rear except in case of emergency its sounds like sound advice to offer a novice rider.

It sounds to me like he may have been taught the other way around... Will find more today!

 

[Kazza]

I just got a chance to ride a buddy's 08' Ducati 1098 and you want to talk about a completely USELESS rear brake. Holy crap that was waaaaay less functional than my fz. Now the Front brake on the other hand is a whole different story. Now there's some stopping power . I agree with you though, It seems like complete Bull$*** to me. One of the keys to being a good rider is knowing how to use the front brake and modulating it accordingly.

Mike says exactly the same about his Speed Triple.

Maybe it's the single sided swing arm thing?

 

[Extremity]

Took my MSF class in ~September 09 and they still gave me the 80/20 or 90/10 or whatever it is. I also think that your friend misheard the instructor; however, if we can somehow assume that he definitely heard correctly, than that particular instructor was an idiot... I mean from a purely logical perspective does anybody really think their provided curriculum was "updated" to inform instructors that the front brake is just a "**** it, might as well I'm gonna crash anyways" tool? I would highly advise that you tell your friend to call/visit the local school and talk to an instructor again to see if that's the information they are passing along to new riders, because it seems to me that if the guy who's job is to help new riders stay safe (or at the very least ALIVE) is passing that information along, he's going to end up doing just the opposite. I've locked up my rear brake doing far less than a balls-out emergency stop and thankfully had enough miles under my belt to stay up, but I highly doubt a new rider in an emergency situation is going to stay pavement-free when they panic and try to emergency stop with only the rear break.

I mean, I definitely agree that it's more of your stopping power and that you've got to use the front break with a much higher amount of finesse, but telling somebody to just ignore the front is just wrong. Even if you say it's for low speed, entry level riding it's still a horrible first impression to have when you are learning to ride. That first hour of driving slowly in a parking lot is definitely going to start locking habits into your brain no matter what anybody thinks, and it's much better to hear "90% rear 10% front, for now just try to use the rear brake while you learn". If you spend your first hours riding with the mindset of "ignore the front break" that will immediately become a riding habit, and breaking a bad habit is 10 times as difficult as learning a new one.

 

[wolfe1down]

So I got a chance to ride with the group from work yesterday, and the guy who only uses his rear brakes was there. We went for a fairly long ride (5 hrs) and it wasn't anything too technical. I had the opportunity to sit and chat with him a few times during some of the rest stops, and we discussed braking techniques and habits.

I am now under the impression that he misinterpreted what the instructor was telling him. This was a take home lesson he said that he learned on the first day of his course, which I'm fairly certain consists of low-speed maneuvers. So likely, as Vegas mentioned,

perhaps it was during a particular range excercise where you should not use your front brake? For example, the U-turn box, we tell our riders not to get in the habit of using the front brake during this excercise since the handlebars are turned in a full lock position, any use of the front brake will be susceptible to a dropped bike, or at least a foot down. I see it happen all the time. I encourage them to drag the rear brake if they have to use their brake at all, or just squeeze in the clutch.

So as we're talking I point out a few things on the bike, like how there are two brakes on the front, and only one on the rear. That how bikes have evolved in things like stopping power, bike geometry, spring rates, etc. I also recommend to him that he read Nick Ienatsch's book "Sport Riding Techniques".

He seemed pretty content after a show-and-tell style discussion and agreed to give using his front brake a chance for the remainder of the ride. Luckily he's only been really riding since July-ish, and hasn't had any incidents that could have injured him or someone else. Hopefully he'll read the book and continue to practice using his front brake. I also mentioned that he should maybe get in touch with his course instructors and seek some additional clarification (as they would likely be able to explain things better).

So... just thought I would share what originally sounded like a horribly flawed system, but turns out to be just a confused student.

 

[discgolfdude]

Well it is good to hear that he got to finally understand how to use his brakes!!!

 

[YamaSpeed]

You may want to suggest to this person that they read "Total Control" it is at our local Library and covers in detail Traction and Braking.
Made me a better and safer rider.

 

[ZaGhost]

Quick question....

Which course did he take the one from NSSC (our MSF) or the other guys from Lunenburg that were offering courses (saw their ad on Kijiji al lot over the last few months) ?

 

[wolfe1down]

Quick question....

Which course did he take the one from NSSC (our MSF) or the other guys from Lunenburg that were offering courses (saw their ad on Kijiji al lot over the last few months) ?

I'm pretty sure he took the NSSC course...

 

[ozzieboy]

For what it's worth, I never heard the term "counter steering" until after I had been riding for over 10 years. But I was taught the mechanics of it during my rider safe course and have made good use of it over the years, along with a lot of the other stuff I was taught that I don't have a name for...lol.:thumbup: