Two bros: How loud is too loud?

[AJ_rider]

Whether statistically they save lives or not, TBRs are super loud and get noticed much more than the stock exhuast does. If you've never heard them in person you haven't heard them at all. For that reason, and because they look wicked :rockon:, I keep mine on without DB killers. For OP, I'd recommend giving it some more time, you'll learn to love them. Also might want to get some ear plugs for highway riding, save your ears from not only the exhaust but the wind noise.

 

[Zealadin]

The stock exhaust is practically silent, I haven't been past 8k revs and seriously its all engine noise.
There really is -NO- way to test whether or not a loud exhaust works.
Realistically in a car with windows down it is hard to hear a bike until its quite close, but that depends entirely on the exhaust, how it is being ridden, where in the revs its sitting, how windy it is, what other noise may be inside the car ie music, mobile phones, yelling kids, etc etc
Sometimes however especially in city driving you hear them a mile off, and in slow traffic you definately hear them, which realisically has to make people who hear it think, "oh I better check before I do this stupid lane change"
Your never going to be able to say that the exhaust will stop every accident, but if it stops 1 a year then its definately worthwhile. I think you'll find that added presence on the road however does alot more than that.

Every experienced older rider I know however recommends loud exhausts to help your road visibility (people who hear something are more likely to check) and when it comes down to it, research these days is rarely conducted to find out a result, they decide what they want the answer to be, then work the research around it, thats how they generally get paid, to prove a point a governing body or organisation wants to make.
I'll take the word of someone alive and experienced (and all the bike mags) over some researcher who probably doesn't like his neighbors loud exhaust and runs over small children in school zones in his 4x4 secure in the knowledge only a meteor strike would get through his tank.

 

[Motogiro]

I've copied the following from another post I made a few weeks ago. We ended up on this subject and it was quite funny. Decibels are decibels and regardless of opinion the basic science of sound is pretty solid. 2 Bros. are loud! Try the DB killers.

Sound travels at around ? MPH. A mile is 5280 feet(1.609344 kilometers). Sound travels at 1096 feet per second. In one minute it travels +- 65,700 feet. In 1 hour +- 3,945,600 feet. That's around 747 MPH.

If I start up my Granma's sewing machine(she has the peddle type and peddles really fast) and I'm headed away from her in any given direction, the sound of Granny's sewing machine travels at 747 MPH. It catches up with me because my car's top speed is below 747 MPH by a few hundred MPH? Now if Granny put that dang needle through her finger again and starts a hollerin, there is an increase in decibels. That is sound pressure or volume. It will be detected by your ear sooner than her feet on that treadle. Not because the sound is now traveling faster but because it overcomes ambient noise by volume.

I don't find the sound of aftermarket exhausts annoying however I do find the use of a bike annoying in some circumstances. I agree and do wear a bright colored mil spec vest when possible.

 

[Red Wazp]

Never bought into the loud pipes save lives thing but I must say with my 2Bros the deer hate em' and that's a good thing
Here in Ca it's nice to make a little noise when lane splitting.
Get the Db killers, they work.

 

[Philippe1985]

I thought the same thing about my LEO's at first. i put the DB killers in for couple weeks as a transition and then took them out. Now i love them!!!

I never ride my leo's open. They are nice sounding, but there is that nasty frequency... It is a nasty buzz that comes up from the moment you touch your throttle. And it goes away when you don't touch your throttle anymore. And I always ride with earplugs!!!
Nope, never open, it is really ear-killing....

 

[Bruce McCrary]

*steps up onto the soap box*

As an older and experienced rider who has devoted most of his whole life to motorcycles and riding I will throw my opinion in to this unendable argument. Loud pipes DO NOT save lives, and they DO NOT get you noticed any quicker as to make any real difference in reaction time. (So here's your first one, but I promise you, not the only one) Want proof? Talk to any EMT, LEO, or fireman. As loud as their sirens are (much, much louder than ANY motorcycle exhaust) they still have issues with people not hearing them until they are right up on them.

If you think that the noise emitting from your exhaust makes any difference at all in your safety your simply trying to justify your noise. Period.

What loud pipes do, and do very well, is piss people off. Which is exactly what this sport, on road and off, needs... More people hell bent on doing away with us.

That being said, one of Bryan's buds has a TB slip on with db killer installed on his GSXR6. Anytime he rides with us, he rides in the back. Usually by his own choice and he's constantly apologizing for the noise his bike makes. Even if he doesn't volunteer we put him in the back, because no one wants to listen to not only the noise level, but the horrible raspy sound of the blasted thing.

There are some sweet sounding aftermarket slip on's on the market that not only sound good but aren't children's noise makers and sport killers. A good indication is if the manufacturer offers a "db killer". I mean c'mon... if they weren't embarrassed by the excessive noise of their own product then they wouldn't be offering something to alter the sound of it, would they?

*steps off the soap box*

Bruce

 

[mcteague]

*steps up onto the soap box*

As an older and experienced rider who has devoted most of his whole life to motorcycles and riding I will throw my opinion in to this unendable argument. Loud pipes DO NOT save lives, and they DO NOT get you noticed any quicker as to make any real difference in reaction time. (So here's your first one, but I promise you, not the only one) Want proof? Talk to any EMT, LEO, or fireman. As loud as their sirens are (much, much louder than ANY motorcycle exhaust) they still have issues with people not hearing them until they are right up on them.

If you think that the noise emitting from your exhaust makes any difference at all in your safety your simply trying to justify your noise. Period.

What loud pipes do, and do very well, is piss people off. Which is exactly what this sport, on road and off, needs... More people hell bent on doing away with us.

That being said, one of Bryan's buds has a TB slip on with db killer installed on his GSXR6. Anytime he rides with us, he rides in the back. Usually by his own choice and he's constantly apologizing for the noise his bike makes. Even if he doesn't volunteer we put him in the back, because no one wants to listen to not only the noise level, but the horrible raspy sound of the blasted thing.

There are some sweet sounding aftermarket slip on's on the market that not only sound good but aren't children's noise makers and sport killers. A good indication is if the manufacturer offers a "db killer". I mean c'mon... if they weren't embarrassed by the excessive noise of their own product then they wouldn't be offering something to alter the sound of it, would they?

*steps off the soap box*

Bruce

Way to go Bruce, my thoughts exactly. I have argued this point on other forums and,of course, no one changes their opinion.

However, I like the bit where it scares away deer. THAT might actually make sense. I have had a few occasions where they jumped out in front of me and roaring pipes would alert them more than those silly little whistles people put on their bumpers.

It's still not worth becoming what I dislike. There is far too much noise already and adding to it is just part of the bad biker image.

Tim

 

[rbesr]

Zealadin,
You must only know a couple of old, experienced riders, then. I also fit in the catagory of the old experienced rider, since I started riding in 1966 and I'm with the group that says loud pipes DO NOT save lives. More often than not, loud pipes just piss off non-riders. An awful lot of of riders are so happy with the sound of their pipes that they think everyone wants to hear them, too. I feel those that have loud exhaust on their bikes need to be respectful of the people around them. There's a time and place to open up the pipes and let them sing.

The most important changes I made to any of my bikes to get noticed are the headlight modulators. Drivers notice the headlight pulsing much quicker and a lot farther away than any loud pipes that may be installed.


This being said and before I get flamed, I appreciate the sound of a good throaty exhaust. I have the Two Bros on my FZ6 w/o the db killers. It's loud, but more important is the range of the sound and the pitch. I just watch how I use the throttle so as to not annoy people around me. I like it but it's a bit more annoying than the sound of the Venture. BTW, the Venture has a set of Bubs on it, with unpacked, empty baffles. Sounds a lot like my old smallblock Chevy's, with headers and a good set of header mufflers.

Yes, both of my bikes can get loud. I just don't believe the noise will save my life.

 

[Zealadin]

As an older and experienced rider who has devoted most of his whole life to motorcycles and riding I will throw my opinion in to this unendable argument. Loud pipes DO NOT save lives, and they DO NOT get you noticed any quicker as to make any real difference in reaction time. (So here's your first one, but I promise you, not the only one) Want proof? Talk to any EMT, LEO, or fireman. As loud as their sirens are (much, much louder than ANY motorcycle exhaust) they still have issues with people not hearing them until they are right up on them.

Bruce

Thanks for providing your opinion, even if you do state in a factual manner.
Sirens on emergency vehicles are often hard to gauge on where they are coming from, BUT the main point is the fact that people KNOW when they hear one that an ambo, police car, or fire truck is coming and that its in a hurry.
Again no matter how many safety precautions you take you will NEVER be able to compensate for stupid people, whether they are drivers or riders.

I'm of the opinion that loud exhausts draw attention, which is sometimes good sometimes bad.
More experienced riders and drivers learn, even unconsciously to recognise warning signs, and its certainly a possibility that the exhaust rumble be one of these signs.
You could also argue that a helmet, jacket, gloves and boots are useless if you had never fallen off a bike.....
As I said before all it needs to do is draw the attention of a single driver/rider who might have been going to swerve out without looking or some other form of stupidity and it could be considered a safety feature, its not something that you are likely to actively notice however (if it works).
Infact on some rides I've been alerted to another motorcyclist by their much louder exhaust, which has definately helped avoid an accident when idiots on sports bikes in twisties used to overtake without warning, without leaving my lane or anything when I was on a 250cc learning to ride. (Here we have to display plates while learning and corners are generally the worst place to overtake someone who obviously lacks skill/experience on a bike)

None of the older riders I know use these forums, or I'd get them to chuck a few words up.

Like you say its not an arguement that can be proven either way, theres just too many possible situations to consider, but motorcycling is all about taking precautions, and while I don't think those horrible super loud exhausts which make people flinch (and babies cry) are particularly good, I would never discount the benefits of a loud (within reason) exhaust.

 

[Bruce McCrary]

You mean my opinion isn't fact?

Dang man, don't sell my son that...

The easiest way I've found to end this argument...err discussion is to offer up this.

IF you truly believe that loud pipes save lives, then buy the biggest, baddest, loudest horn you can find, install it on your bike and wire it so that it operates constantly while your engine is running. The horn is designed and positioned so that folks in front, as well as to the side of the vehicle can hear it.

I've gone so far as to offer to not only pay for the horn for locals, but install and wire it free too. Not a single person has taken me up on this. Not one.

Why? Because the horn doesn't sound "cool" and with it's positioning the rider will be subjected to much the same abuse as the rest of us and won't put up with it.

The thing on emergency vehicles is not just the directional issue, but the fact that for the most part you can't hear it until it is almost on you. But you can see it much much further off.

This is a subject that will always be an issue that is driven by emotion as much as fact and that there will never be a universally acceptable answer for.

Bruce

 

[Zealadin]

Sorry to double post, but I see where you are coming from rbesr, but by your own statements you have custom exhausts....
Now there are many different types of loud exhausts, with totally different characteristics and there are definately exhausts which are too loud

Now I can give situations where I have been made aware of another rider by their exhaust, which has made me be much more careful of my road positioning, and have had situations where if I was not aware may have changed my line (within my lane) during a corner and possibly caused an accident

I'm not just jumping out and saying "your wrong I'm right" like you guys seem feel is ok. Seriously its an opinion for a reason, your obviously basing yours (from the justifications your giving) on a dislike for young riders on loud bikes, and the fact that your old/experienced and part of a group of similar minded people. Denegrating my point because I don't know 'enough' people? Seriously?
My point is valid IF a single riders life was saved by a loud exhaust. Are you argueing thats not possible? Are you argueing that a loud exhaust has never prevented an accident of some kind?
To me I can see the main benefit being with pedestrians, they hear you coming and are less likely to step out from between cars.

Since you have based your posts on opinion, stated as fact I'm really not in the mood to be all nice and accepting while I'm insulted with comments which really have no basis except the feeling that you knowing more people than me. Unless you know the majority of motorcyclists in the world this kind of reasoning is worth a pinch of salt. Literally.

Personally since we are all just putting opinions out there, my opinion is that in my experience I have had situations where another bikes exhaust has made me aware of that rider, both on the bike and car, often when a rider is doing something they should not be doing, but thats not really the point.

There are many more effective and important safety features or strategies. The bike light comment is certainly a valid one, however I'm not going to agree with something I don't beleive is true from my experience (which may be short) unless I'm provided with proof why it isn't.

I don't think its something that can be proven/disproven really, its very reliant on opinion, experience, and a plethora of other things such as situation, bike, exhaust in question, how you ride, what you ride, when you ride.

Your in the group who doesn't beleive it fits under the 'safety' catagory, I'm in the group who does (not primarily but an after-effect of a loud pipe). I'm not going to belittle myself by making it a pissing contest on whoes group is bigger.

 

[Zealadin]

The easiest way I've found to end this argument...err discussion is to offer up this.

IF you truely believe that loud pipes save lives, then buy the biggest, baddest, loudest horn you can find, install it on your bike and wire it so that it opperates constantly while your engine is running. The horn is designed and positioned so that folks in front, as well as to the side of the vehicle can hear it.

According to this logic your basing your arguement on people having a rudely loud exhaust, which isn't the point of the arguement at all.
A 'loud' exhaust isn't an exhaust which breaks windows as you pass.
That being said you have made a very interesting point.
Having your horn on DOES attract EVERYONES attention making your presence on the road more recognised, which is why the horn is a safety feature, if it was always on it would still be a safety feature. Its not always on because its irritating and jarring and reserved for emergencies.
Since you seem to beleive that the horn and a loud exhaust both fill the same role, then your basically admitting that yes it IS indeed a safety feature.

 

[necrotimus]

This arguement happens once a week and in the end it is the same result... no ones mind is changed. If you like it loud then ride it loud if you like it quiet then ride it quiet. If we were talking about the bedroom then maybe we could all come to some sort of agreement but this topic has been beaten to death.

 

[Bruce McCrary]

According to this logic your basing your argument on people having a rudely loud exhaust, which isn't the point of the argument at all.

Have you heard a TB?

A 'loud' exhaust isn't an exhaust which breaks windows as you pass.

Exactly. "Loud" is a relative term, but one that is being defined by several groups of people, including many that don't ride and have no connection to motorcycles outside from being pissed off by the noise.

Currently if you ride in AMA national level events "Loud" is defined as being 99 db. Anything louder than that and you don't pass a sound check in tech. 99 db is currently quieter than most of the aftermarket pipes being offered for many sport bikes and cruisers, but not all.

The point being that if we don't want someone else deciding this for us, we damn well better figure it out for ourselves, and quickly. You have no idea just how quickly...

That being said you have made a very interesting point.

That apparently you missed...

Having your horn on DOES attract EVERYONES attention making your presence on the road more recognized, which is why the horn is a safety feature, if it was always on it would still be a safety feature. Its not always on because its irritating and jarring and reserved for emergencies. Since you seem to believe that the horn and a loud exhaust both fill the same role, then your basically admitting that yes it IS indeed a safety feature.

Think of the positioning of a horn, or emergency siren. They face front. Think of where your exhaust exits. To the rear. It makes a huge difference. A sound meter reading can be altered by simply moving the microphones angle or distance slightly.

So unless your concerned with someone driving up your tailpipe, then making your exhaust loud enough to be heard at the same distance as a front facing horn makes the exhaust note...unacceptable to many.

No, I'm not saying stock is best, or that there aren't good aftermarket systems on the market that bridge the gap between good sound and stealth. But at the same time if a rider doesn't recognize that sound is and being to loud isn't a huge issue within the sport he or she is ignoring reality.

I'm not busting anyone's balls here, or putting anyone down. Merely trying interject what I've learned in 30 plus years or riding and racing and almost 15 years of being in the industry.

The industry does understand and recognize this issue as a genuine problem and many are working hard to correct it.

Bruce

 

[wangt86]

The Two Bros pipes are "loud" when compared to the stock exhaust. But if you were to compare it to the bikes out on the streets its nothing. If your worried about getting a ticket then just ride in a higher gear thru town. Just be careful cause it gets really loud when your in the 5k RPM range.

 

[Hellgate]

Noise threads are very much like oil and air filter threads, really pretty pointless. Note that we threadjacked the hell out of this.

OP, DB Killers can make a very big difference, as others have stated TBR makes several sets for your bike. With my Akrapovics I had to use them on the street because there is a frequency at about 4,500 to 5,500 rpm that hurt my ears. Not loud but the pitch hurt, after 19 years in the Army I hate loud noises and wish I'd taken better care of my hearing. At 44 I beginning to pay the price.

 

[rbesr]

OK, I'll phrase it this way. IMO the loud pipes I have on my bikes have never saved my life. No one has ever dodged me or noticed me strictly because of the exhaust note from my pipes. What has kept my carcass from being splattered on the pavement for the past 43 years is a combination of proper gear, riding defensively, safety equipment such as headlight modulators and taillight modulators, and continued re-taking of MSF courses over the years to help keep bad habits to a minimum.


BTW, I never said I didn't like loud pipes.

 

[FZ1inNH]

I'm not going to argue it at all. Everyone makes valid points.

[soapbox]
When a company offers DB killers, it is because their exhaust is a "racing" exhaust not meant for street use and the DB killers are for use with that exhaust on the street. It's not an indicator of an obnoxious OR embarrassed manufacturer. That IS a fact.

Regardless, I'm not on either side. The rider is ONLY as safe as he drives defensively and responds to situations around him. If a rider isn't focused on what is ahead and taking into account all possible dangers as well as CONSTANTLY calculating his escape routes, then the rider is the danger to himself. Loud pipes, loud horn, gear... none of it can keep you safer than your ability as a rider to react to danger.

The horn is a safety feature and used wisely, can avert a crisis.

Gear? We dress for the crash, not the ride. It's insurance again, something we buy and wear and pray to God we NEVER have to use.
[/soapbox]

All that aside, I bought a TB for my new FZ1. I did it because the stock exhaust is butt-freakin UGLY and weighs more than a set of newborn twins! I will be shaving 11.4 lbs off the bike. This means I don't have to ride side-saddle on the FZ1 anymore to counter the weight of the stock can.

It will be loud, it will be obnoxious but I'm not going to race around town and crank the throttle *just* to make people stop and stare. I'm not going to start up the bike at 6am for a ride and wake the neighbors or come home at 1am and blip the throttle. I'll do my best to behave with it. I didn't get the DB killer with it but may end up with it on permanently. I'll have to guage my wife's reaction as she typically follows me on all our joy rides. Maybe she'll be taking the lead? :don'tknow:

It boils down to personal choice and legallity. I'll never change anyone's mind and no one will change mine. Your (meaning everyone) opinion of me is none of my business. :thumbup:

 

[lazamus69]

One example of my pipes saving me a whole lot of grief...

I was coming up to a stop sign and I noticed a city-works van parked on the side of the road about 30 ft away from the intersection with his brake lights on. As I approached the van I noticed his reverse light flash on and off quickly, realizing this meathead was going to pull out in front of me I gave a quick hard blip of the throttle and as his van(which had started to roll) lurched to a halt. This chump was about to pull a u-turn in front of me without even looking.
He wouldnt have heard me at all with the stock exhaust and I may have been able to do an emergency stop to avoid the collision, but thankfully I didnt have too.
Loud pipes have helped save MY bike(maybe me some pain too), obviously not theirs so they figure they are useless. On the other hand I KNOW they are somewhat effective as I have seen it first hand in the flesh, so thats just the way it is. Period..
Now you WILL think like I think, because if you dont you WILL be wrong!..:Flip: j/k

 

[mcteague]

One example of my pipes saving me a whole lot of grief...

I was coming up to a stop sign and I noticed a city-works van parked on the side of the road about 30 ft away from the intersection with his brake lights on. As I approached the van I noticed his reverse light flash on and off quickly, realizing this meathead was going to pull out in front of me I gave a quick hard blip of the throttle and as his van(which had started to roll) lurched to a halt. This chump was about to pull a u-turn in front of me without even looking.
He wouldnt have heard me at all with the stock exhaust and I may have been able to do an emergency stop to avoid the collision, but thankfully I didnt have too.
Loud pipes have helped save MY bike(maybe me some pain too), obviously not theirs so they figure they are useless. On the other hand I KNOW they are somewhat effective as I have seen it first hand in the flesh, so thats just the way it is. Period..
Now you WILL think like I think, because if you dont you WILL be wrong!..:Flip: j/k

What about that thing all bikes come with? Hmmm, I believe it's called a horn. Not as loud as a car perhaps but I'll bet that would have stopped the guy as well.

Tim